Liverpool FC Forum

by **Dundalk** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:09 pm

by **Sabre** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:58 am

When I read Mick's post from top to down, in standard way, I disagree it.

But when I red from down to top, I actually quite agree it.

For instance

I don't though see why when someone says "how does Kuyt get a game every week, is he giving rafa a blowjob or something?" it's massively insulting to either party.

This bit

(but) an indication that the people who are saying such things are unable to argue/debate sensibly.

I agree completely. (just a little joke, about how the same reality can be interpreted in many ways)

If you're asking us to accept the Rafa/players insults until we win the league, which is something we haven't done in 19 years, then you're asking me to play a game in which most of the times you'll be the winner. If we actually win the thing those fans will be happy enough not to care about the "told you so", and the happy clappers will be too happy to be saying I told you so. Plus the summer goes quickly and a new season with new concerns would come quicly. That's not a fair deal.

So I'll just ask everybody, including myself to be more balanced no matter the result. If we're top of the table 9 points, respect the members that have concerns if those are voiced sensibly.

When the things go badly, do criticise the manager for his decissions, but do not write waiter or cúnt lines, because they only show you're unable to chat footie.

If it's that obvious Rafa is mad, explain why talking about football, and don't insult him. (not talking about you but the ones that trigger our frustration after an already frustrating draw).

The final line is right, no matter how I read it. And I certainly practice much of that everyday in newkit.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:17 am

aCe' wrote:u know what the problem is lando... and thats not just for you its for everyone who thinks the same way u do... problem is that when u have a poster criticizing a player or the manager's decisions or selection or whatever, you seem to take it upon urself to reply to that poster with insults suggesting that their opinion is somehow invalid or unacceptable.. well u know what, some choose to say things like they are.. if someone fcks up i'll point it out and if someone doesnt agree with what im saying then fair enough, point it out and try to argue your point the way u see fit... if i'm insulted then i'll return the insults and im pretty sure many others would ... sorry but ur in no position to be telling the posters what they should or should not be posting in these boards regardless of what u seem to think or believe..

As GYBS said - it's lost on some people.

Say what you like about their decisions/displays.

Don't insult the person. You don't like it when it's directed at you. Neither do your Anti chums.

Hypocrisy has many forms, but rarely is it more obvious than in the anti's posts.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:30 am

bigmick wrote:I'm glad Lando is back. I rarely agree with him, or his methodology on occasions, but he does make the place more interesting, a more compelling read I'll give him that.

I'm not sure I buy into this "it's cos people insult the players/manager" line though to be honest. I've had plenty of nonsense on here over the years from a posse of bovver boys and I don't go in for the "fat Spanish waiter" stuff, so it doesn't ring true to me. I think it's more a case of people who look to protect and defend the manager and players as well as the situation, losing the argument and having to resort to silliness. True I tend not to get called a shrivelled up scrotum of a retarded whatever it is (and in fairness to Lando he very rarely gives me any nonsense of any description), but I do get the "cocktail barman/plumber/dildo seller" etc etc, I do get and have had the "what level do you play and manage at", I do get and have had that I'm not a "real fan", I'm "fickle", I'm a knee jerker", I "want the team to lose and celebrate when it happens", as well as the inevitable "but you're not at Melwood" etc etc.

I don't see the above as insults per se, but merely as an indication that the people who are saying such things are unable to argue/debate sensibly. That's not necessarily a reflection upon them, it's simply that in many cases the things they are trying to defend are basically indefensible. A few have tried for instance, but nobody has given any sensible reason, not one, why selling Keane and not bringing in a replacement is a good idea at this stage of our first title challenge in years. The reason nobody has given a reason, a sensible reason, is because there isn't one. And so when people mention it, out of frustration trusters resort to abuse, or in GYBS's case the somewhat less confrontational "he's gone now so lets move on".

I don't though see why when someone says "how does Kuyt get a game every week, is he giving rafa a blowjob or something?" it's massively insulting to either party. Often I've heard people say on here "what's wrong with bad language? Don't you hear it at work, on the rugby field or whatever?" which is fair enough. But I'm asked to believe that those same people find it offensive, racist or whatever else because a poster calls Rafa a Spanish waiter? Come on. The very best way for Rafa and the players to shut such people up is to start winning football matches, for the waiter to become the winner and then there's no argument. The silly people who call Rafa such things, or admit that they think he's a busted flush can be ridiculed properly then, and justifiably so.

All in all though, people need to moderate themselves. It always used to be that way, it still is, and it always will be.

Your self-obsession baffles me, Mick.

You really think I insult people when I can't counter their argument?

If so, you know nothing of me, and you insult my intelligence royally. Just because you have a majority footing, and every single thread turns into a Rafa-basher due to sheer volume of bullpats written, you think I insult because I can't counter the f*cking argument?

Behave. I have tried on numerous occasions to open your eyes, but you're all so blinded by your own stubborn ways, you can't relate to anything which is not a prelude to or an out-and-out "Rafa needs sacking" post.

I'm sick of wasting my time explaining why you're wrong in 90% of the things you lot say. I'm sick of knuckleheads who are so c*ck-sure of their own untested and unfounded opinions, even when presented with facts to the contrary. I'm sick of d'Artagnan and the 3 Musketeers ram-raiding every thread with total, over-reactionary nonsense, then rushing to pat one another on the back and laud themselves as footballing scholars, when even the most basic of intellects could pick enough holes to make their arguments look like Swiss cheese.

If you really think that I can't counter the rubbish you post at times, Mick, you're kidding yourself. I just can't be a*sed anymore, when your 3 amigos will run to your defence and slobber all over every word you type, no matter how far-fetched it may be.

by **Sabre** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:43 am

Nah, Lando, I disagree. Mick has known to defend his posts -- which I agree not everytime are right -- in his own for years, sometimes he has defended his stuff all alone, but he has always defended his stuff with footie and respect to others.

Yes, he sometimes opens a new thread when the topic is covered, but we all have a mistake, I for instance, besides talking my share of bóllocks like everybody, do a lot of topic drifting.

I agree that for the lovely couple is a bless that Mick has gone a bit anti Rafa, because now they feel again like they know their football (remember they need cracking posts comments), but that's a coincidence, they're different styles of posting, and Mick's is way more respectful.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:48 am

Sabre wrote:Nah, Lando, I disagree. Mick has known to defend his posts -- which I agree not everytime are right -- in his own for years, sometimes he has defended his stuff all alone, but he has always defended his stuff with footie and respect to others.

Yes, he sometimes opens a new thread when the topic is covered, but we all have a mistake, I for instance, besides talking my share of bóllocks like everybody, do a lot of topic drifting.

I agree that for the lovely couple is a bless that Mick has gone a bit anti Rafa, because know they feel again like they know their football (remember they need cracking posts comments), but that's a coincidence, they're different styles of posting, and Mick's is way more respectful.

Mick has been increasingly sly with his posts of late, and I don't much like the not-too-subtle inferences which are there purely to antagonize the pros.

You know I'm right, Mick. I've no problem with you as a person, but your tactless little digs are getting right up my nose.

by **bigmick** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:11 am

Well as I said in my post earlier, we don't agree on much but I stand by what I said then that I'm glad you're back on the forum

No point in going in to the other stuff here, it's been done to death elsewhere but I am as always happy to discuss football with you or anyone else in the relevent threads.

by **bigmick** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:34 am

Unusually for me, I'm quite wound up though by an unprovoked attack and despite my earlier post, I'll come back to a couple of points you raised Lando.

Firstly you accuse me of self obsession, then you take my comments on people generally going off on one because they can't counter an argument to be totally about you. That's OK because it partly is. You say I'm in the majority? On what subject are we talking here if you don't mind me asking?

Lets look at it. I've campaigned against mass rotation for three seasons now, and I suspect that by now the majority of people probably think at the very least the manager used to overdo it, and my may even feel that he still does. In the early days though (the first two seasons) I was pretty much a lone voice against it (even S@int was mostly for it then as I recall). I had to put up with constant nonsense from a whole raft of people, each time I posted. Now many people have begun to change their minds on the subject and it's not because I went on about it, even I'm not that self obsessed. No, the reason people are changing their minds is because it is as obvious as the nose on your face that we cost ourselves many points in the past. Each and every time we have reduced the tendency to rotate, we have increased the tendency to gain points. Now you say you are able to easily counter all arguments, but in three seasons I've seen you get all hot under the collar many times, throw insults around many times, but I have never seen you mount a credible argument on this subject. Not once, ever.

You've tried to "open my eyes"

. I appreciate the effort you have made Lando, I really do . You're sick of explaining why I'm wrong in 90% of what I say?

I'm at a loss really, but you know the one about if you can't think of anything nice to say then don't say anything at all? I'll go with that one this time :talktothehand

We'll leave that one about our respective football knwledge there I think.

Another question, was the sale of keane in the best interests of the football club at this point in time, without a credible replacement? Once more lots of preening and posturing, lots of "feck him anyway" but no attempt to sensibly talk about our options and possibilities should it all go pear shaped, which it is doing by the looks of things. Try to open my eyes on that one because I can't see the logic in it. perhaps you can enlighten me.

As for three amigos, I think you've got the wrong bloke. I post what I think is right. I don't form clubs, I posted recently that I thought we needed a new manager. I still do. Whether or not people agree is entirely up to them. To be perfectly honest, it makes absolutely no difference to me either way. Equally it makes no difference to me one way or the other if some fans consider it sacrilage to criticise the manager. That's fine. It also makes no difference to me if people have an opinion which differs to mine, they are allowed. It's all good. I haven't seen a single person so far though come on the boards and say, "you know what Mick, I agree with you". It seems to me that I am in the minority of one. I was and still am in a minority of one in thinking that we were good enough to mount a credible title challenge in both of the seasons prior to this one. In one of those seasons, we were a country mile behind at the death. Does it bother me that everyone thinks I'm mad, do I change my opinion? Do you honestly think that because you come on here with your particular posting style, it's going to make me change an opinion I've come to unless you put up a credible argument?

I form my opinions in almost complete isolation of everybody and everything else that people in England get to deal with. I don't watch that thing on Sky on Sundays when they get all the reporters together, because they don't show it over here. I don't read a raft of English newspapers, or watch Sky News Uk because of the same reason. I don't listen to radio phone ins, ditto. I basically watch the matches, think about it, and form an opinion. Those opinions are not just knee jerk reactions, I actually think about the game, and always have.

I'm always happy to explain why I have come to a particular conclusion, I am happy to explain exactly why I differ with anyone, if indeed I do.

I don't agree with the premise of your post and your attack (although mild by your standards) earlier in this thread. Come onto the football threads and talk about football. That's what they're there for.

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