Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:43 pm

I know that was the whole point of the thread mate, but there seems little point in me pontificating about foreign players as I don't watch much foreign football. If for instance I think Dossena was a poor signing for 7 million quid (which I do) I don't think it's a sensbile counter to say "well who would you ahve bought then" (and I know that's not what you are saying this time). The answer quite simply is, feck knows.

If on the other hand you gave me 7 million quid and told me I had a month or so to find a left back, I'd be pretty confident I'd be able to find one better than Dossena. The point is not as I said the individual players, it's the shape of the squad. Are we for instance in posession of enough quality flair players? I don't think we are. Now who we should have bought four seasons ago is one question (although it's obviously easy with hindsight as we'll all pick a good player, Alex Hleb anyone, Fabregas, Ronaldo etc etc). Equally, who would you buy as of now? My point is we should be taking a punt on people like Arshavin.

by **GYBS** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:52 pm

yes we should be taking a punt onsomeone like arshavin mate but there is something stopping us doing that and we all know what that is - MONEY . we dont have it . and it doesnt have to be foriegn players mick it can be any players you want - people spend all day and every day crucifiying liverpool players as well as manager yet not many come up with realistic alternatives that we can 1. Afford 2. Would want to come to us 3. Clubs would sell .

by **Alex G.** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:54 pm

Personally I think the British defenders are usually the best of the world in the physical game but not in the tactical (as Carragher admitted it).
I think Jagielka and Lescott are good players but not great or top class.
Of course Dossena, is a big mistake from Rafa.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:57 pm

TBH I am not sure if thats true or not GYBS, because so few get the chance nowerdays. When I was young I used to study the second division(championship) quite a bit looking for players that might be good enough for Liverpool, I couldn't even tell you who is top now. I am sure there are still players in the lower divisions that could make the step up, but now it seems its much easier to bring in a foreign international player than take a chance on a Championship player. I am not talking about signing kids like Carson or Hobbs, but players who have a few games under their belt, players like Phil Neal etc. Players that but for signing for us might have gone their whole career considered journeymen rather than stars. We used to be quite good at picking them out.

Who was the last established player we signed from the lower divisions? I know we have signed a few from clubs on their way down (Henchoz Crouch) but do we ever look at the clubs that are stuck down there?

by **bigmick** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:59 pm

GYBS wrote:yes we should be taking a punt onsomeone like arshavin mate but there is something stopping us doing that and we all know what that is - MONEY . we dont have it . and it doesnt have to be foriegn players mick it can be any players you want - people spend all day and every day crucifiying liverpool players as well as manager yet not many come up with realistic alternatives that we can 1. Afford 2. Would want to come to us 3. Clubs would sell .

That's precisely why I don't get invoved in it. I've been down this route before, it goes something like this.

I say, 'Well why don't we sign Arshavin?"

You say one of or all of the following.

a) we can't afford him.

b) his club won't sell him

c) he wouldn't come to us.

You then normally say "so who do you want to buy now?". At this point, someone mentions a player (not me because I've been down the route too may times) and we go through the whole scenario again.

When we do sign a player who turns out to be rubbish, and somebody pionts it out. You say one of the following,

a) Parry bought him

b) Give him time, he's only been here two seasons etc etc

c) He wasn't Rafa's first choice. At this point, we insert someones name who has been an unqualified success over the last three seasons, and claim that Rafa wanted to buy him and that Parry wouldn't let him.

This is why I prefer to talk about players we've actually bought, and the actual shape of the squad. It's easier.

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:03 pm

s@int wrote:TBH I am not sure if thats true or not GYBS, because so few get the chance nowerdays. When I was young I used to study the second division(championship) quite a bit looking for players that might be good enough for Liverpool, I couldn't even tell you who is top now. I am sure there are still players in the lower divisions that could make the step up, but now it seems its much easier to bring in a foreign international player than take a chance on a Championship player. I am not talking about signing kids like Carson or Hobbs, but players who have a few games under their belt, players like Phil Neal etc. Players that but for signing for us might have gone their whole career considered journeymen rather than stars. We used to be quite good at picking them out.

Who was the last established player we signed from the lower divisions? I know we have signed a few from clubs on their way down (Henchoz Crouch) but do we ever look at the clubs that are stuck down there?

Go outside your house over the weekend, get a news paper and subscribe to SKY.

Football changed lad.

There are very very very few who can make the step up. One or two per seaon at most.

Keegan's, Heighways and Clemences are not out there.

by **GYBS** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:05 pm

bigmick wrote:
GYBS wrote:yes we should be taking a punt onsomeone like arshavin mate but there is something stopping us doing that and we all know what that is - MONEY . we dont have it . and it doesnt have to be foriegn players mick it can be any players you want - people spend all day and every day crucifiying liverpool players as well as manager yet not many come up with realistic alternatives that we can 1. Afford 2. Would want to come to us 3. Clubs would sell .

That's precisely why I don't get invoved in it. I've been down this route before, it goes something like this.

I say, 'Well why don't we sign Arshavin?"

You say one of or all of the following.

a) we can't afford him.

b) his club won't sell him

c) he wouldn't come to us.

You then normally say "so who do you want to buy now?". At this point, someone mentions a player (not me because I've been down the route too may times) and we go through the whole scenario again.

When we do sign a player who turns out to be rubbish, and somebody pionts it out. You say one of the following,

a) Parry bought him

b) Give him time, he's only been here two seasons etc etc

c) He wasn't Rafa's first choice. At this point, we insert someones name who has been an unqualified success over the last three seasons, and claim that Rafa wanted to buy him and that Parry wouldn't let him.

This is why I prefer to talk about players we've actually bought, and the actual shape of the squad. It's easier.

then this thread wasnt obviously for you then .

Like i said our players get slaughtered on a daily basis by people on here claiming this that and the other which is something that never happened in years gone by - the players were allways supported no matter what . and i was asking on this thread for people to say who rafa should of got instead of such and suhc hence why saitn replied with his list as opposd to coming up with a novel on something that had nothing to do with the thread and the question i was asking .

by **GYBS** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:05 pm

Cahill is porb the last person to make the step up from the lower leagues .

by **bigmick** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:07 pm

I agree it's very different. Most players who are going to be good enough get taken long before they hit Derby's first team and that goes a long way towards explaining the lack of Phil Neal's or Kevin Keegans. Occasionally though, a player does begin to "get it" as they get older, and I think we could do ourselves a huge favour by looking locally at least sometimes. Fair point though, it's changed a lot in that respect.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:07 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
s@int wrote:TBH I am not sure if thats true or not GYBS, because so few get the chance nowerdays. When I was young I used to study the second division(championship) quite a bit looking for players that might be good enough for Liverpool, I couldn't even tell you who is top now. I am sure there are still players in the lower divisions that could make the step up, but now it seems its much easier to bring in a foreign international player than take a chance on a Championship player. I am not talking about signing kids like Carson or Hobbs, but players who have a few games under their belt, players like Phil Neal etc. Players that but for signing for us might have gone their whole career considered journeymen rather than stars. We used to be quite good at picking them out.

Who was the last established player we signed from the lower divisions? I know we have signed a few from clubs on their way down (Henchoz Crouch) but do we ever look at the clubs that are stuck down there?

Go outside your house over the weekend, get a news paper and subscribe to SKY.

Football changed lad.

There are very very very few who can make the step up. One or two per seaon at most.

Keegan's, Heighways and Clemences are not out there.

And yet these clubs can still manage to knock top clubs out when they play them in the cup. Maybe there are more players who can raise their game than you think ?

I'm not sure, but I don't think we found a Keegan or a Clemence every year mate.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:10 pm

GYBS wrote:Cahill is porb the last person to make the step up from the lower leagues .

What about Sidwell for starters?

by **bigmick** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:11 pm

GYBS wrote:Like i said our players get slaughtered on a daily basis by people on here claiming this that and the other which is something that never happened in years gone by - the players were allways supported no matter what . and i was asking on this thread for people to say who rafa should of got instead of such and suhc hence why saitn replied with his list as opposd to coming up with a novel on something that had nothing to do with the thread and the question i was asking .

As the song say "if you don't know me by now" etc etc

You did though acuse S@int of talking with the benefit of hindsight which kind of illustrates the difficulty of the original question. We can all name players we should have signed, quite simply because they have been hugely successful where they've gone. You could for instance say "well before we even thought about selling Crouch, we should have bought Adebayor two and alf seasons ago". It wouldn't really be a fair point though, as I for one had never heard of him.

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:18 pm

s@int wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
s@int wrote:TBH I am not sure if thats true or not GYBS, because so few get the chance nowerdays. When I was young I used to study the second division(championship) quite a bit looking for players that might be good enough for Liverpool, I couldn't even tell you who is top now. I am sure there are still players in the lower divisions that could make the step up, but now it seems its much easier to bring in a foreign international player than take a chance on a Championship player. I am not talking about signing kids like Carson or Hobbs, but players who have a few games under their belt, players like Phil Neal etc. Players that but for signing for us might have gone their whole career considered journeymen rather than stars. We used to be quite good at picking them out.

Who was the last established player we signed from the lower divisions? I know we have signed a few from clubs on their way down (Henchoz Crouch) but do we ever look at the clubs that are stuck down there?

Go outside your house over the weekend, get a news paper and subscribe to SKY.

Football changed lad.

There are very very very few who can make the step up. One or two per seaon at most.

Keegan's, Heighways and Clemences are not out there.

And yet these clubs can still manage to knock top clubs out when they play them in the cup. Maybe there are more players who can raise their game than you think ?

I'm not sure, but I don't think we found a Keegan or a Clemence every year mate.

thats why we spend most of our days on here chatting sh.it about football - its AMAZING !

NEver said every year, but there will NEVER be another player from two divisions below the top flight who plays European football again for the top four/five.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:43 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
s@int wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
s@int wrote:TBH I am not sure if thats true or not GYBS, because so few get the chance nowerdays. When I was young I used to study the second division(championship) quite a bit looking for players that might be good enough for Liverpool, I couldn't even tell you who is top now. I am sure there are still players in the lower divisions that could make the step up, but now it seems its much easier to bring in a foreign international player than take a chance on a Championship player. I am not talking about signing kids like Carson or Hobbs, but players who have a few games under their belt, players like Phil Neal etc. Players that but for signing for us might have gone their whole career considered journeymen rather than stars. We used to be quite good at picking them out.

Who was the last established player we signed from the lower divisions? I know we have signed a few from clubs on their way down (Henchoz Crouch) but do we ever look at the clubs that are stuck down there?

Go outside your house over the weekend, get a news paper and subscribe to SKY.

Football changed lad.

There are very very very few who can make the step up. One or two per seaon at most.

Keegan's, Heighways and Clemences are not out there.

And yet these clubs can still manage to knock top clubs out when they play them in the cup. Maybe there are more players who can raise their game than you think ?

I'm not sure, but I don't think we found a Keegan or a Clemence every year mate.

thats why we spend most of our days on here chatting sh.it about football - its AMAZING !

NEver said every year, but there will NEVER be another player from two divisions below the top flight who plays European football again for the top four/five.

Sidwell played for Chelsea against Valencia

If top clubs don't buy them, I agree they won't. If they took the chance every now and then who knows?

If you would like to put money on that statement ?

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:45 pm

s@int wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
s@int wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
s@int wrote:TBH I am not sure if thats true or not GYBS, because so few get the chance nowerdays. When I was young I used to study the second division(championship) quite a bit looking for players that might be good enough for Liverpool, I couldn't even tell you who is top now. I am sure there are still players in the lower divisions that could make the step up, but now it seems its much easier to bring in a foreign international player than take a chance on a Championship player. I am not talking about signing kids like Carson or Hobbs, but players who have a few games under their belt, players like Phil Neal etc. Players that but for signing for us might have gone their whole career considered journeymen rather than stars. We used to be quite good at picking them out.

Who was the last established player we signed from the lower divisions? I know we have signed a few from clubs on their way down (Henchoz Crouch) but do we ever look at the clubs that are stuck down there?

Go outside your house over the weekend, get a news paper and subscribe to SKY.

Football changed lad.

There are very very very few who can make the step up. One or two per seaon at most.

Keegan's, Heighways and Clemences are not out there.

And yet these clubs can still manage to knock top clubs out when they play them in the cup. Maybe there are more players who can raise their game than you think ?

I'm not sure, but I don't think we found a Keegan or a Clemence every year mate.

thats why we spend most of our days on here chatting sh.it about football - its AMAZING !

NEver said every year, but there will NEVER be another player from two divisions below the top flight who plays European football again for the top four/five.

Sidwell played for Chelsea against Valencia

If top clubs don't buy them, I agree they won't. If they took the chance every now and then who knows?

If you would like to put money on that statement ?

After maturing in the first division first and then tasting top flight football at Reading. Plus he only went to Chelse cus he cost fu.ck all.

but yes, I will stick you a tenner.

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