Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ace Ventura** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:45 pm

I think with Guthrie in that game he didnt play well but we did dominate it totally, even Owen looked rubbish.

Warnock did have some bad injury problems but never let us down, would of deffo kept him.
Pongolle was always a very handy player to have as a sub, would love to still have him now, very good footballer, he may not have been happy to be a bit part player.
Leagues above Ngog though, who looks nowhere near the required standard.

by **GYBS** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:49 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:I think with Guthrie in that game he didnt play well but we did dominate it totally, even Owen looked rubbish.

Warnock did have some bad injury problems but never let us down, would of deffo kept him.
Pongolle was always a very handy player to have as a sub, would love to still have him now, very good footballer, he may not have been happy to be a bit part player.
Leagues above Ngog though, who looks nowhere near the required standard.

even when i watch guthrie at bolton he looked ok but nothing special at all and now every time i see him for newcastle i cant see anything in him that stands out that to me would say he could slot into our side . I have to agree with Warnock but at the time he wasnt getting past riise and we were getting aurelio in . Pongolle had talent but to me didnt have the right attitude - did well n patches but as you saw thought of himself more highly and even now he is at a big club isnt doing that well - Ngog is very raw and does look like he needs a lot of development in him but he has pace and can finish .

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:53 pm

GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:West Ham: 6.61
Aston Villa: 6.42
Middlesbrough: 5.26
Wigan: 4.92
Everton: 4.89
Derby: 4.86
Newcastle: 4.76
Tottenham: 4.37
Man Utd: 4.28
Bolton: 4.24
Sunderland: 4.11
Portsmouth: 3.79
Birmingham: 3.74
Reading: 3.68
Chelsea: 3.63
Manchester City: 3.42
Blackburn: 2.68
Fulham: 2.42
Liverpool: 2.34
Arsenal: 0.34

Average number of English players per match last season in the prem. How many home grown players will there be once the likes of Gerrard and Carra have retired? Presumably the .34% for us was Crouch, with Gerrard and Carra being regulars.

So now its home grown players not just kids ? Who cares where players come from ? i certainly dont Saint . if they are good enough they will play end of the day .

No they won't ..... thats the point they are never going to be given the chance, because as you say every game is vital.

But if they are good enough they are going to get a chance when the time is deemed right . The lads like gerrard and carra and robbie and owen and macca were stand out players who got a chance when we were not challenging for anything so the risk was less then . If come pre season pacheco or nemeth or spearing or darby come in and are outstanding then they will get more chances .

Its not about ENGLISH home grown players its about clubs buying cheap foreign players rather than giving youth a chance. The point being most academies are mainly English, most premiership teams are not. This shows that the youth are not getting the chance.

Its much less of a gamble for a manager to bring in a Degan than risk a Darby. Much easier to buy a Dossena than keep a Warnock.

But clubs up the top half of the table cant give youngsters a chance because the risk is far far too great and when there is good english talent around they go for massive amounts of money . But if there is a youngster who is outstanding then he will stand head and shoulders above everyone else and will get the chance . Would you want to take the risk with youngsters these days knwoing the pressure that comes with it all ? if they fail your out of a job . yes its hard of th ENGLISH kids but thats the way the game is now a days and thses kids have to show they are good enough when they get a chance - be it in a friendly in a CC cup or pre season or in training .

Liverpool are in the top half of the table, every game is vital so you can't give youngsters a chance according to you.......... so why bother having an expensive academy, why not just buy the player as and when needed. No gambles no problems you are short of a full back just go and buy one.

Because what we are doing now....... DOES NOT WORK.

by **GYBS** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:02 pm

because as i have stated many times now saint one of those twenty odd youngsters they buy may well show a lot of talent in training with the first team up against first team players in pre season maybe in the CC as well . remember a lot of the ones he bought were all pretty young so it was going to take a couple of years for them to break through - the first batch he bought not many survived and off they went - the second batch with players like pacheco and nemeth and bruna etc look like they may have something about them . And if one of those shows talent against first teamers during training or in pre season then they will get a chance . Plus there is others out there on loan getting experience to see how they do - players like hammill anderson etc . Rafa virtually bought in a whole brand new set of ressies and youngsters and they have to be given time to develop and break through - you dont get results overnight.

by **Zidane** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:02 pm

Arguing with GY is a lost cause fellas, just move on now.

by **GYBS** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:03 pm

Zidane wrote:Arguing with GY is a lost cause fellas, just move on now.

Not arguing - actaully having a decent debate on here without any insults etc .

by **Mintal27** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:06 pm

I would have kept Guthrie, Pongolle and Warnock all three are good players and better than what we have now. Guthrie is better than Lucas, Pongolle is better than Kuyt, Babel and Voronin and Warnock is better than Aurelio and Dossena. We seem to have gone a few steps backwards in terms of signings in some areas.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:07 pm

GYBS wrote:
Zidane wrote:Arguing with GY is a lost cause fellas, just move on now.

Not arguing - actaully having a decent debate on here without any insults etc .

We may start....... very soon mate

by **GYBS** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:08 pm

A prime example is what has just happened keane has left so that leaves a space in the first team squad for a striker to show himself - apparently pacheco has travelled tonight so he may well make the bench which means he may well get on and be given a chance which is great news .

by **dawson99** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:14 pm

GYBS wrote:A prime example is what has just happened keane has left so that leaves a space in the first team squad for a striker to show himself - apparently pacheco has travelled tonight so he may well make the bench which means he may well get on and be given a chance which is great news .

indeed!

Rafa knows what he's doing! the wage bill gone down a load, we got the people we need, and in Summer we get someone world class.

by **JC_81** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:19 pm

Just a few points on some of the players mentioned in this thread.

Guthrie is a very average player. We did well to get 2.5 million imo. Whether he would do more for us than Lucas is debatable, but he's a player I certainly wasn't crying over when he left.

Warnock is overrated on here too. He was a decent player who won the fans over because he had fantastic commitment and would put his body on the line for the team, a bit like Carra. He is great in the tackle and therefoire can look a class act when you watch the highlights on MOTD, but watch him over a whole game and his positional play is very suspect imo. He's also a bit slow in the turn. He's not as good as Aurelio and probably Insua will turn out to be a better player too.

Pongolle was decent, but again nothing special. Decent pace and decent touch, but lets face it he was hardly lethal in front of goal and his size and lack of strength often had him found wanting in the Premiership. I'm not surprised he is doing better in another league abroad. I'm sure he'd be a better option than Ngog in fairness, but again he's hardly one I'm desperate to have back.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:25 pm

I think thats the problem though mate

Warnock v Dossena
Guthrie v Lucas
Pongole v N'gog

Is the difference worth the cost and the trouble and the high wages? Bring in Torres for Mellor and no one is going to complain really. But when you bring in poor or average players instead of giving a decent prospect a chance ...... thats when people get a little annoyed.

by **GYBS** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:29 pm

s@int wrote:I think thats the problem though mate

Warnock v Dossena
Guthrie v Lucas
Pongole v N'gog

Is the difference worth the cost and the trouble and the high wages? Bring in Torres for Mellor and no one is going to complain really. But when you bring in poor or average players instead of giving a decent prospect a chance ...... thats when people get a little annoyed.

But both warnock and pongolle had chances with us and never shone and guthrie had a whole season playing in the prem and didnt pull up any tress .

by **Mintal27** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:30 pm

dawson99 wrote:Rafa knows what he's doing! the wage bill gone down a load, we got the people we need, and in Summer we get someone world class.

This is debatable isn't it?

Does Rafa know what he is doing? Sometimes I think he does and other times I am not so sure.

We have the players we need? We lack match winners. We don't have a right winger, We only have one top class striker, our fullbacks could and should be better and our squad is wafer thin both in terms of numbers and quality. You know you have problems when Yossi Benayoun becomes a first team starter week in, week out.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:32 pm

GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:I think thats the problem though mate

Warnock v Dossena
Guthrie v Lucas
Pongole v N'gog

Is the difference worth the cost and the trouble and the high wages? Bring in Torres for Mellor and no one is going to complain really. But when you bring in poor or average players instead of giving a decent prospect a chance ...... thats when people get a little annoyed.

But both warnock and pongolle had chances with us and never shone and guthrie had a whole season playing in the prem and didnt pull up any tress .

To be fair neither have Dossena, Lucas or N'gog so far.

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