Liverpool FC Forum

Ace Ventura wrote:What people dont seem to grasp (GYBS) about these cover players, is that we didnt need alot of them.
Its Rafas insistance that we need so many players in the squad because of rotation, that has meant that we have so many below par squad players.
Lucas and Babel must of been nearly 20 million, there is one lump sum to buy a top player like Torres and Mascherano.

Too many Gonzalez's, Palletta's, Pennant's and Bellamy's (to name a few)

Then we get bizarre signings like Degen and Voronin - free but still costing shedloads on wages, we had Darby who could of been back up full back.

There is no denying at all that he has had the money, but the fact that he relies on a squad rather than assembling a great team first has meant that we have not pushed on as much as we should have.

GYBS wrote:

s@int wrote:Exactly mate, same as we were in Houllier's last season. We won the CL with 9 players from before Rafa came, we won the FA cup with 6 players from before he came, what have we won since? So don't say he was left with nothing when he came.

Ok then saint are you saying we havent improved as a squad since rafa arrived ?

Which of those players that rafa got left with should still be here then ?

Bar Gerrard ,Sami Carra and  Didi who else from that squad had real genuine quality . Finnan was a decent right back and Riise was ok , who else ?

Were those players left behind after GH good enough to compete in the league ?

The season GH left we scrapped into the CL places by skin of our teeth .

With Those players we won the CL but came 5th in the prem

Then we came 3th , 3rd again and then 4th

the whole time the other three teams were also improving their squads .

heimdall wrote:

GYBS wrote:Saint we managed to qualify easily for the CLs and start to get a very strong squad that in enabling us to challenge now after rafa was finally able to spend big on ONE player - ie masher and torres as opposed to having to spread the budget out over a number of players and was able to get his number one targets . we went on a great run from xmas where we only lost once i think it was (to man utd ) and the players were gelling together as a team and giving us a platform to challenge this season .

Eddie the eagle was a laughing stock of the country one year and a totla Z list - im sure you can figure it out .

And yes puroresu a manager could do that - but which manager would that be ? which manager with the reputatuon, skills , abaility and expirience for that to happen will come to a club where the owners dont speak and havent got the big money to really go for it in the transfer market .

Are you serious?? Eddie the Eagle is a fecking legend, so I'll treat it as a compliment thanks.

Have you ever seen ski jumping where they basically hurl themselves down a fecking steep mountain and then launch off the end of it. For him to take that up as a grown man is astonishing and although he may have jumped slightly shorter than most other children learning how to jump   it still took a hell of a lot of bottle and guts so he has mine and most other people who actually underdstand sport's admiration, so feck you 

s@int wrote:

GYBS wrote:

s@int wrote:Exactly mate, same as we were in Houllier's last season. We won the CL with 9 players from before Rafa came, we won the FA cup with 6 players from before he came, what have we won since? So don't say he was left with nothing when he came.

Ok then saint are you saying we havent improved as a squad since rafa arrived ?

Which of those players that rafa got left with should still be here then ?

Bar Gerrard ,Sami Carra and  Didi who else from that squad had real genuine quality . Finnan was a decent right back and Riise was ok , who else ?

Were those players left behind after GH good enough to compete in the league ?

The season GH left we scrapped into the CL places by skin of our teeth .

With Those players we won the CL but came 5th in the prem

Then we came 3th , 3rd again and then 4th

the whole time the other three teams were also improving their squads .

See Ace Ventura's post above.

GYBS wrote:

s@int wrote:

GYBS wrote:

s@int wrote:Exactly mate, same as we were in Houllier's last season. We won the CL with 9 players from before Rafa came, we won the FA cup with 6 players from before he came, what have we won since? So don't say he was left with nothing when he came.

Ok then saint are you saying we havent improved as a squad since rafa arrived ?

Which of those players that rafa got left with should still be here then ?

Bar Gerrard ,Sami Carra and  Didi who else from that squad had real genuine quality . Finnan was a decent right back and Riise was ok , who else ?

Were those players left behind after GH good enough to compete in the league ?

The season GH left we scrapped into the CL places by skin of our teeth .

With Those players we won the CL but came 5th in the prem

Then we came 3th , 3rd again and then 4th

the whole time the other three teams were also improving their squads .

See Ace Ventura's post above.

Have read Ace post but that doesnt answer what i am putting to you thou does it .

I know he bought 50 odd players in so many years but how many off them were kids ? 20 plus ? some of them costing a ocupl eof mil each - so instead of just saying spent 200 mill for 50 players at least break it down . if two or thrre or four of them kids break through and get into the first team then we would of saved ourselves maybe 100 mil by getting them young .

GYBS wrote:yes he prob has bought the odd player to many but a lot of his buys have also been a hell of alot of young lads like nemeth pacheco etc . Players like gonzalez and palletta were players for the future same with players like bable and lucas . you need a deep squad - maybe not too deep but you get a few injuries and your fecked . man utd have a mssive squad and it helps them cover most injuries , Arsenal have a paper thin squad and a coupl eof injuries and they are fecked as has been shown when there players last season ran out of steam from playing too many games .

yes Degen was a bizzare signing and maybe sometimes he needs to give some of the youngsters a chance but we all know what will happen if either darby or spearing comes into the team and has a mare - they would get crucified by on here and in the press . they both just need experience and that will come .

The odd player 

Think you are being slightly generous with that one.
Dawson often talks about this - we sign so many players that are risks all costing transfer fees signing on fees and wages then when they dont work - ship them out often at a loss.
Thats criminal, the only positive spin i can put on that is that he does ship them out, but at the end of the day its money being p!ssed up the wall as far as i am concerned.
The likes of Nemeth and co are also gambles - i actually like Nemeth but he is 21 now and unlikely to get a chance, and he was the star of the reserves last season that won the league. What did Rafa do - he didnt lavish praise on him and get him in the squad (which was extended to 7 subs) he only went out and brought ANOTHER young striker for 1.5 million and put him further down the pecking order.
Our ressies have struggled this season after conquering all last, does anyone think some of those players - Darby Nemeth, Spearing etc might not be disallusioned ?

I know i would be.

GYBS wrote:Nemeth this season was due to play more action in the first team with Ngog coming in to be more of a back up but nemeth got injured so ngog got more of a chance .

And saint half of those kids in fact most were under 17 when they were bought so i think it is safe to say they prob arent ready to be regulars in the team but when they are ready then they will get the chance but they have to be better than the guys in the first team and thats up to the coaches to judge not us .

The kids have to stand out - Rafa is in a no win situation sometimes - play the kids and they dont perform and he will get abuse for playing people without experience or dont play the kids and they get abuse for not giving the lads a chance .

GYBS wrote:Rijkaard ? he was very lucky at barce that he such great talent to work and youngsters coming through yet even with all those players there still managed to get beaten by a poor madrid team to the title twice . Guardioloa has gone in there and got rid of ronaldinho and addalves plus a few solid players and is now tearing up that league .

and we were forth saint .

muzodziwa wrote:I wonder at times if we put some perspective into this whole manager change before sounding so ridiculous. It is an internet forum and very differrent views are expressed, but it baffles me when people fight their way to be proven right. This is so particular in the Rafa's case; yes he is not everyone's cup of tea but what i feel he deserves is respect, especially from us Liverpool fc supporters.

We have also turned speculation into facts with the aid of irrelevent statistics; I trust Rafa to be the man who will be able to take transform us, not only into champions but a footballing dynasty. I do not say that he is a perfect manager, yes there are times he has frustrated me, times that he has puzzled me with his team selections and substitutions. I do not lambast any supporter who has different views to mine but rather i would want to engage in an informative discussion. This should not be based on win-lose approach which seem to characterise this forum.

Change of manager at the end of this season is a major setback, we might get a Rijckard, or a Maureen, or a Hiddink, maybe promote Sammy Lee to the helm but that will be disastrous to our progress. Rafa has been restructuring the club especially the academy, we are about to produce our own talent. A change of manager will mean a change in the football philosophy and a set back to the club; which i can not translate into a time frame. I think with most clubs being owned by some rich guys, it is a club's ability to produce its own talent that would give it a competitive advantage, and i think with rafa we are reaching that stage.

I think with most clubs being owned by some rich guys, it is a club,s ability to produce its own talent that would give it a competitive advantage, and i think with rafa we are reaching that stage.