Liverpool FC Forum

by **taff** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:53 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
bigmick wrote:No Lando, none of it's Rafa's fault, he's just the manager Presumeably following your arguement, Parry deserves all the credit in the World for "sanctioning" the transfers of Alonso and Torres, or did he just have input into the transfers which went wrong?

Rafa's showed his true colours throughout the whole episode in my view. I don't expect to ever agree always with any manager and all his decisions. I do though expect his decisions to be made for the right reasons, with the best interests of the team at heart. Selling Robbie Keane without having a replacement, and the way we have jettisoned him over the last month or so is not in the best interests of the team. It may in Rafa's mind be what's best for Rafa Benitez, but I'm not as concerned about that as he obviously is.

The next time he talks about the squad needing to have "options" and "possibilities" we would do well to remember how he has just got rid of quite a few of those in order to make some childish point. I've put his interview when he signed Keane up on the forum twice now. Not a mention, not a word about it not being "his" signing. Does anybody seriously believe it would have ever come to light had Keane scored regularly from the off and been a hit? Of course it wouldn't. In those circumstances, had I come on here and said "well Rick Parry deserves credit because Rafa didn't actually want to pay 20 million quid for him" I would have got laughed off, and deservedly so.

The manager has significantly diminished his standing over this whole affair. I wrestled with my concience before I posted what I did the other day, at least I can console myself now in the knowledge that I am 100% right.

Stop talking out of your a*se. You don't know anything 100%.

Do you even listen to yourself? I'm sure all this "Oooh yes, Mick, I agree completely" has gone to your head. Don't you ever stop to think "Hang on, I don't know anything about what's gone off behind the scenes."?

You put your own spin on events and repeat it so often that you start to believe your own imagination.

Grab a dictionary and look up the word "humility", before you disappear so far up your own ring they'll need a Mining Rescue Team to find you.

Lando

I dont agree with Mick at all but come on we dont need abuse as it just makes topics become rubbish and not worth reading or contributing in.

Although I think he is totally wrong I enjoy reading his posts and I find it makes me want to contribute in a better way just to rip his incredibly insane views apart

I did however agree with him regarding earnshaw :oh:

by **bigmick** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:21 am

taff wrote:I did however agree with him regarding earnshaw

Never knew that Taff

Lando, take a chill pill fella. My opinion is as valid as yours, and we are each entitled to hold our own views. That they aren't the same shouldn't be a bother to either of us :no

.

by **taff** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:27 am

bigmick wrote:
taff wrote:I did however agree with him regarding earnshaw

Never knew that Taff

Its true Im afraid but I learnt to shut up about it when it became obvious how daft an idea it was

by **bigmick** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:32 am

taff wrote:
bigmick wrote:
taff wrote:I did however agree with him regarding earnshaw

Never knew that Taff

Its true Im afraid but I learnt to shut up about it when it became obvious how daft an idea it was

And let me take all the ridicule for it as well

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:35 am

bigmick wrote:
taff wrote:I did however agree with him regarding earnshaw

Never knew that Taff

Lando, take a chill pill fella. My opinion is as valid as yours, and we are each entitled to hold our own views. That they aren't the same shouldn't be a bother to either of us .

Mick, you can't keep posting up your own opinions as facts. It's nonsense.

by **bigmick** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:45 am

Yep your right, the "100% know I'm right" line was b0ll0cks. I admitted that, it seemed sensible when I typed it but once it was pointed out and I read it back there was no defence. Done like a kipper there I'm afraid.

It is though a fact "as far as I'm concerned", "in my eyes", "in my own little mind" and all that stuff that the Keane incident (sounds like a John Grisham book) has diminished Rafa's standing in my eyes. He appears to me to be doing things for his own benefit as opposed to for the benefit of the team.

I think (only my opinion this time) that he thinks the club will be sold soon, and the quicker he can get himself a contract signed the better off he is. That way, if any new owners want to get rid of him he's in for a big chunky pay off. He can go to whichever is his next club with a big fat wadge of cash in his back pocket. If he doesn't get a new contract, he may be staring down the gun barrel at only a one year pay-off. This is why (I think anyway) he has shown such a remarkable urgency to get his contract sorted. This is particularly the case as for the first time in his managerial career at Liverpool we were top of the league. It was (IMHO) a case of "feck winning the thing, lets get the contract sorted and sharpish".

No facts, and quite a damning opinion of the man I admit. It is though my opinion, although I do realise it is quite controversial and probably offensive to some. For that I'm sorry, I'm not deliberately trying to p!ss people off here. It's simply how I see it.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:49 am

bigmick wrote:Yep your right, the "100% know I'm right" line was b0ll0cks. I admitted that, it seemed sensible when I typed it but once it was pointed out and I read it back there was no defence. Done like a kipper there I'm afraid.

It is though a fact "as far as I'm concerned", "in my eyes", "in my own little mind" and all that stuff that the Keane incident (sounds like a John Grisham book) has diminished Rafa's standing in my eyes. He appears to me to be doing things for his own benefit as opposed to for the benefit of the team.

I think (only my opinion this time) that he thinks the club will be sold soon, and the quicker he can get himself a contract signed the better off he is. That way, if any new owners want to get rid of him he's in for a big chunky pay off. He can go to whichever is his next club with a big fat wadge of cash in his back pocket. If he doesn't get a new contract, he may be staring down the gun barrel at only a one year pay-off. This is why (I think anyway) he has shown such a remarkable urgency to get his contract sorted. This is particularly the case as for the first time in his managerial career at Liverpool we were top of the league. It was (IMHO) a case of "feck winning the thing, lets get the contract sorted and sharpish".

No facts, and quite a damning opinion of the man I admit. It is though my opinion, although I do realise it is quite controversial and probably offensive to some. For that I'm sorry, I'm not deliberately trying to p!ss people off here. It's simply how I see it.

OK. One thing I can't get to grips with is this: How would the selling of Keane help in the pursuit of a new contract?

by **bigmick** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:58 am

I'm not sure the selling of Keane is necessarily to do with him getting his new contract. I see the selling of Keane as being part of some power struggle between Rafa, Parry and whichever of the two owners he is currently friendly with. I have never pretended that Rafa's situation is an easy one because it isn't, but quite simply there isn't a single football reason for the way he has carried on over this. In ourcurrent situation, it would absolutely no difference who the striker was which we are talking about, nor how much we paid for him and who signed him. It is quite simply just a question of having sufficient cover for Torres.

My opinion is that we were short of strikers even with Keane. Without him, we are desperate. Regardless of whether Rafa rates him, hates his guts or whatever else, to sell him is/was madness without a replacement.

The contract stuff though which I'm on about is discussing the thing publicly when his old one had eighteen months left to run. Trying to drum up outrage from the fans that it hadn't been signed yet, using his tame journalist to hint that he would be listening to offers in the Summer etc. His contract should have been the least of his worries IMHO.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:12 am

bigmick wrote:Yep your right, the "100% know I'm right" line was b0ll0cks. I admitted that, it seemed sensible when I typed it but once it was pointed out and I read it back there was no defence. Done like a kipper there I'm afraid.

It is though a fact "as far as I'm concerned", "in my eyes", "in my own little mind" and all that stuff that the Keane incident (sounds like a John Grisham book) has diminished Rafa's standing in my eyes. He appears to me to be doing things for his own benefit as opposed to for the benefit of the team.

I think (only my opinion this time) that he thinks the club will be sold soon, and the quicker he can get himself a contract signed the better off he is. That way, if any new owners want to get rid of him he's in for a big chunky pay off. He can go to whichever is his next club with a big fat wadge of cash in his back pocket. If he doesn't get a new contract, he may be staring down the gun barrel at only a one year pay-off. This is why (I think anyway) he has shown such a remarkable urgency to get his contract sorted. This is particularly the case as for the first time in his managerial career at Liverpool we were top of the league. It was (IMHO) a case of "feck winning the thing, lets get the contract sorted and sharpish".

No facts, and quite a damning opinion of the man I admit. It is though my opinion, although I do realise it is quite controversial and probably offensive to some. For that I'm sorry, I'm not deliberately trying to p!ss people off here. It's simply how I see it.

I agree with you mate (even the 100%bollox part

) I think you probably meant you felt you were 100% correct in your own mind ........when you wrote it....... not that you were 100% right.

The thing is if Rafa felt so strongly about Keane and how much we had paid etc etc , why wait till we are top of the league half way through the season, why not have the balls to say what he thought when we had just bought him?

by **sgs** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:54 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
bigmick wrote:No Lando, none of it's Rafa's fault, he's just the manager Presumeably following your arguement, Parry deserves all the credit in the World for "sanctioning" the transfers of Alonso and Torres, or did he just have input into the transfers which went wrong?

Rafa's showed his true colours throughout the whole episode in my view. I don't expect to ever agree always with any manager and all his decisions. I do though expect his decisions to be made for the right reasons, with the best interests of the team at heart. Selling Robbie Keane without having a replacement, and the way we have jettisoned him over the last month or so is not in the best interests of the team. It may in Rafa's mind be what's best for Rafa Benitez, but I'm not as concerned about that as he obviously is.

The next time he talks about the squad needing to have "options" and "possibilities" we would do well to remember how he has just got rid of quite a few of those in order to make some childish point. I've put his interview when he signed Keane up on the forum twice now. Not a mention, not a word about it not being "his" signing. Does anybody seriously believe it would have ever come to light had Keane scored regularly from the off and been a hit? Of course it wouldn't. In those circumstances, had I come on here and said "well Rick Parry deserves credit because Rafa didn't actually want to pay 20 million quid for him" I would have got laughed off, and deservedly so.

The manager has significantly diminished his standing over this whole affair. I wrestled with my concience before I posted what I did the other day, at least I can console myself now in the knowledge that I am 100% right.

You don't know anything 100%.

Do you even listen to yourself? I'm sure all this "Oooh yes, Mick, I agree completely" has gone to your head. Don't you ever stop to think "Hang on, I don't know anything about what's gone off behind the scenes."?

You put your own spin on events and repeat it so often that you start to believe your own imagination.

Grab a dictionary and look up the word "humility", before it's too late.

You gotta wonder sometimes! Supposedly getting one up on Parry is more important to a manager than winning the league. The last time I saw such a leap was Sergei Bubka at the Olympics

by **milou** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:28 am

bigmick wrote:Yep your right, the "100% know I'm right" line was b0ll0cks. I admitted that, it seemed sensible when I typed it but once it was pointed out and I read it back there was no defence. Done like a kipper there I'm afraid.

It is though a fact "as far as I'm concerned", "in my eyes", "in my own little mind" and all that stuff that the Keane incident (sounds like a John Grisham book) has diminished Rafa's standing in my eyes. He appears to me to be doing things for his own benefit as opposed to for the benefit of the team.

I think (only my opinion this time) that he thinks the club will be sold soon, and the quicker he can get himself a contract signed the better off he is. That way, if any new owners want to get rid of him he's in for a big chunky pay off. He can go to whichever is his next club with a big fat wadge of cash in his back pocket. If he doesn't get a new contract, he may be staring down the gun barrel at only a one year pay-off. This is why (I think anyway) he has shown such a remarkable urgency to get his contract sorted. This is particularly the case as for the first time in his managerial career at Liverpool we were top of the league. It was (IMHO) a case of "feck winning the thing, lets get the contract sorted and sharpish".

No facts, and quite a damning opinion of the man I admit. It is though my opinion, although I do realise it is quite controversial and probably offensive to some. For that I'm sorry, I'm not deliberately trying to p!ss people off here. It's simply how I see it.

I think it is very harsh to say "money" or "me first" are the highest priorities for Rafa.

Of cos he is no saint (no punt intended

)... money is OF COS important for ANYONE, whether you are a multi-billionaire or just a beggar.

Whether you agree with his methods/ways or timing of handling things (his rants, keane, rotation, etc) is another matter altogether IMHO. But it is clear to me that Rafa does genuinely have LFC's best interest at heart.. that I have absolutely 100% no doubt about it.

It would be insane to ask for more control if money is what he is chasing.. isn't it? Any money grabbing b'astard would have just shut-up and signed it, instead of risking the sack (WITHOUT the fat cash you are referring to).. since we all know how bad his relationship with RP,G&H is.

As for Keane departure.. it is madness but as usual I would try to make sense of it.. I have actually argued this before and I think it makes even more sense now..

I think he first wanted Keane to play behind torres.. since we all knew that Keane was arguably well-known as a creative second striker. He also wanted to move gerrrad back to midfield to partner masherano. As a result, he was clearly willing to "sacrifice" Alonso.

How Keane's fate was sealed is a matter of a series of coincidence IMHO. When Alonso stayed and performed very well in midfield, coupled with Gerrard impeccable form behind the lone-striker and Torres's injury.. Keane was asked to to fill the lone-striker role, which he obviously wasn't bought for.. and therefore didn't perform well in.

And the rest is history.

As crazy as the Keane's saga is, you wouldn't say we need Keane in our current set-up of 4-5-1.. which is CLEARLY our best formation. So we CLEARLY need lone-strikers instead.

I guess Rafa realized this early and wanted cut loss fast. If Keane continued playing badly the way he did (mind u as a lone-striker), do you think we would have got back 15million next summer? It MAYBE a shrewd piece of business by Rafa (or Parry if u prefer

), financially at least.

And there is equally no point trying to make sense of the last few weeks of the bizarre "Keane's treatment" bcos Rafa would have to be careful not to get Keane injured and spoil his plan to offload him.

Now, don't come asking me who can cover Torres now though! :laugh:

by **kazza** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:03 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:You don't know anything 100%.

Do you even listen to yourself? I'm sure all this "Oooh yes, Mick, I agree completely" has gone to your head. Don't you ever stop to think "Hang on, I don't know anything about what's gone off behind the scenes."?

You put your own spin on events and repeat it so often that you start to believe your own imagination.

Actually that is spot on

by **elninonumber9** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:02 am

well im new here, and im not really into writing so much and reading all of yours so i will just giive my two cents, sorry if my ideas have already beeen answered,

first of all i like rafa and i dont think he should go but HE WAS A IDIOT in the window, he should have tried to get lennon in that keane deal, i think we got 16.3 million for keane right? i would have been happy with 10 mil and lennon, i read somewhere juve wanted kuyt for 28 million if we got offered that much i would have said yes in half a second, kuyt is good but his no winger seriously, he cant run at players like lennon could and he cant put in a decent cross, well he can but on his good day, id use him as a striker but 28 million for a guy i never heard of before he came?

second why do we let chelsea always get the talent? in the years since rafa has came, ive only seen a couple of good transfers imo agger, alonso ( did he come with rafa :| ), renia, masch, reira who isnt bad on his day and ofcourse torres but there is only 2 if 3 world class players there alonoso and torres and maybe renia, masch is getting there tho and agger doesnt play. RICHARDO QAUERSMA IS THE TYPE OF PLAYER WE NEED, why let chelsea get him on loan? sell kuyt for at least 12 mil and use the money for robbie and kuyt and get him for around 20 million? he will give us the winger we need!

3RD WE DONT NEED ANOTHER STRIKER! we have babel, ngog on the bench, maybe getting saviola on loan wouldnt have been a bad idea, id give babel the starts most of the time tho, liverpool needed some transfers to win the EPL and as of now, we need renia too be on his game, torres to be TORRES, gerrard to do his thing and some luck!

we should play;

Renia

Arbeloa Carragher Agger Auerilo

Alonso

Babel Reira

Gerrard

Ngog Torres

i wanna see ngog have a chance.

by **bigmick** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:15 am

milou wrote:
bigmick wrote:Yep your right, the "100% know I'm right" line was b0ll0cks. I admitted that, it seemed sensible when I typed it but once it was pointed out and I read it back there was no defence. Done like a kipper there I'm afraid.

It is though a fact "as far as I'm concerned", "in my eyes", "in my own little mind" and all that stuff that the Keane incident (sounds like a John Grisham book) has diminished Rafa's standing in my eyes. He appears to me to be doing things for his own benefit as opposed to for the benefit of the team.

I think (only my opinion this time) that he thinks the club will be sold soon, and the quicker he can get himself a contract signed the better off he is. That way, if any new owners want to get rid of him he's in for a big chunky pay off. He can go to whichever is his next club with a big fat wadge of cash in his back pocket. If he doesn't get a new contract, he may be staring down the gun barrel at only a one year pay-off. This is why (I think anyway) he has shown such a remarkable urgency to get his contract sorted. This is particularly the case as for the first time in his managerial career at Liverpool we were top of the league. It was (IMHO) a case of "feck winning the thing, lets get the contract sorted and sharpish".

No facts, and quite a damning opinion of the man I admit. It is though my opinion, although I do realise it is quite controversial and probably offensive to some. For that I'm sorry, I'm not deliberately trying to p!ss people off here. It's simply how I see it.

I think it is very harsh to say "money" or "me first" are the highest priorities for Rafa.

Of cos he is no saint (no punt intended )... money is OF COS important for ANYONE, whether you are a multi-billionaire or just a beggar.

Whether you agree with his methods/ways or timing of handling things (his rants, keane, rotation, etc) is another matter altogether IMHO. But it is clear to me that Rafa does genuinely have LFC's best interest at heart.. that I have absolutely 100% no doubt about it.

It would be insane to ask for more control if money is what he is chasing.. isn't it? Any money grabbing b'astard would have just shut-up and signed it, instead of risking the sack (WITHOUT the fat cash you are referring to).. since we all know how bad his relationship with RP,G&H is.

As for Keane departure.. it is madness but as usual I would try to make sense of it.. I have actually argued this before and I think it makes even more sense now..

I think he first wanted Keane to play behind torres.. since we all knew that Keane was arguably well-known as a creative second striker. He also wanted to move gerrrad back to midfield to partner masherano. As a result, he was clearly willing to "sacrifice" Alonso.

How Keane's fate was sealed is a matter of a series of coincidence IMHO. When Alonso stayed and performed very well in midfield, coupled with Gerrard impeccable form behind the lone-striker and Torres's injury.. Keane was asked to to fill the lone-striker role, which he obviously wasn't bought for.. and therefore didn't perform well in.

And the rest is history.

As crazy as the Keane's saga is, you wouldn't say we need Keane in our current set-up of 4-5-1.. which is CLEARLY our best formation. So we CLEARLY need lone-strikers instead.

I guess Rafa realized this early and wanted cut loss fast. If Keane continued playing badly the way he did (mind u as a lone-striker), do you think we would have got back 15million next summer? It MAYBE a shrewd piece of business by Rafa (or Parry if u prefer ), financially at least.

And there is equally no point trying to make sense of the last few weeks of the bizarre "Keane's treatment" bcos Rafa would have to be careful not to get Keane injured and spoil his plan to offload him.

Now, don't come asking me who can cover Torres now though!

As usual Milou an excellent post mate, and your point about "if he was a gredy b.astard he'd have just signed it" is a good one. It's such a good one that it has me flummoxed

Looks like I might have to retract the money angle. Perhaps he's simply power hungry, wanting to control everythign to the nth degree. Given his record in the transger market recently though, I would be extremely hesitant about givein him more control, new contract or not (and obviously I wouldn't give him a nbew contract).

Good post though, a couple of excellent points as well as the bullseye.

by **bigmick** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:21 am

kazza wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:You don't know anything 100%.

Do you even listen to yourself? I'm sure all this "Oooh yes, Mick, I agree completely" has gone to your head. Don't you ever stop to think "Hang on, I don't know anything about what's gone off behind the scenes."?

You put your own spin on events and repeat it so often that you start to believe your own imagination.

Actually that is spot on

"actually that is spot on". what a very strange person you are. Really :help

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