Liverpool FC Forum

by **GYBS** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:42 am

Do people really think Maureen would leave the comfort of Inter for Liverpool with the current owners and financial situation we are in ? I doubt it myself due to him having an extremely good record and reputation here in the prem - he wouldnt put that on line unless we had the owners and finances to back him like his previous club and the one he is managing now .

by **Owzat** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:48 am

I am not one of MON's biggest fans, I feel he is over-rated for what he did with Leicester and Celtic (more Celtic)

LEICESTER

96/97 9th in Premiership
97/98 10th in Premiership
98/99 10th in Premiership
99/00 8th in Premiership

Whoop d f in doo, so he managed top eight on "limited budget". Well here's a few names who also managed top eight finishes and weren't big spenders - some not even staying up long enough to manage four Premiership finishes in a row

00/01 Ipswich 5th in Premiership
93/94 Wimbledon 6th in Premiership
94/95 Wimbledon 9th in Premiership
96/97 Wimbledon 8th in Premiership
06/07 Reading 8th in Premiership
92/93 QPR 5th in Premiership
93/94 QPR 9th in Premiership
94/95 QPR 8th in Premiership
03/04 Bolton 8th in Premiership
04/05 Bolton 6th in Premiership
05/06 Bolton 8th in Premiership
06/07 Bolton 7th in Premiership

Do the managers who achieved those lofty positions get the same credit? No, they didn't go to Celtic and win easy trophies. The real point of those examples is that it isn't a miracle to finish top 8-10 in the Premiership, and I've deliberately excluded some longer term teams in the Premiership who bitterly whinge about the credit their smeegel manager doesn't get for 'spending nowt' and finishing top five or six. MON's League Cup successes came in a period when the 'big four' were disinterested in the competition, as shown by one of their wins being over TRANMERE (currently league one?) Between 1996 and 2000 only one of the 'big four' even reached the final - Chelsea winning it against Boro. Since then the 'big four' have won it five times out of eight and made up NINE of the 16 finalists (56.25%) compared to one out of 10 finalists (10%) in the five year spell MON won it twice. Compare that with the FA Cup in the same period

FA Cup

1996-2000 : 'Big Four' Wins = 5/5, 'Big Four' Finalists = 6/10
2001-2008 : 'Big Four' Wins = 7/8, 'Big Four' Finalists = 11/16

League Cup

1996-2000 : 'Big Four' Wins = 1/5, 'Big Four' Finalists = 1/10
2001-2008 : 'Big Four' Wins = 5/8, 'Big Four' Finalists = 9/16

Clearly the 'Big Four' more serious about the FA Cup

Celtic

UEFA Cup Finalists - so what? All the best teams are in the Champions League, even Rangers and MIDDLESBOROUGH reached a UEFA Cup final.

Winning the SPL with Celtic! Wooohoooo! Winning a two horse race with one of two horses, of which one is pretty lame these days and still is AFTER O'Neill left them ie his successor is no less successful.

So yes, well done Martin O'Neill for finishing top ten with Leicester and winning a couple of mickey mouse cups with them. Well done for winning a two horse race with the favourites and well done for reaching the final of a much weaker and 'no longer what it was' competition with a team that wasn't good enough to compete to any decent level in the proper European Competition.

My serious question is this - was what MON did with Leicester better, on par, or worse than what he's doing with villa? Taking into account the money he has spent, and don't forget he has :

Carew £7m
Ashley Young £9.65m
Milner £12m
Cuellar £7.8m
Barry n/a (but supposedly worth £18m or so)
Sidwell £5m
Luke Young £5.5m
Petrov £6.5m
Davies £8m
Reo Coker £8.5m

So a tidy sum spent, no more excuses of 'limited budget'. By my reckoning around £95m worth of players at his disposal, not including Agbonlahor and Barry with values. Still they are just behind us, although they may well be found out as they have been somewhat fortunate recently - but winning is more important than how you get there.

by **Judge** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:50 am

no one can deny that villa arent playing well owzat

by **GYBS** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:57 am

Villa are playing well - off that there is no doubt - they have a cb in Laursen who has been outstanding for them - always been quality just poor with injuries - they have two very good and highly rated youngsters in Agbonlahor and Young who are using their pace to rip teams apart - so they are on a good run off form - there is no doubt about that - but lets see if they can sustain that run of form - they have been outstanding and have crept into the top4 - we have been average/poor/ok and on the odd occasions very good throughout the season yet still sit above them . I think Villa will pretty much spend most of the time in the second tier below the top 4 along with the likes of BS etc and there form will tail off towards the end of the season when the games catch up on them .

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:59 am

GYBS wrote:Do people really think Maureen would leave the comfort of Inter for Liverpool with the current owners and financial situation we are in ? I doubt it myself due to him having an extremely good record and reputation here in the prem - he wouldnt put that on line unless we had the owners and finances to back him like his previous club and the one he is managing now .

He is hardly comfortable at Inter.

From what I have heard and read he is upsetting the balance there. He has upset the Inter owner on numerous occasions, some within interviews publicly. He is being slated for changing there side into a boring 1-0 team.

I'd like to think a return to the premiership where he excelled would be just the thing for him.

by **bigmick** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:03 am

Since we're doing the stats though, I might be wrong here but didn't O'Neill actually take Leicester up tinot the Premiership beofre that run of top 10 finishes? Also, Owz I must say including Barry as "well he's supposed to be worth 18 million" in transfer money spent is manipulation of numbers to a laughable extent. So do we add 75 million onto what Rafa has spent because that's what Gerrard is worth, or make it 90 million to include Carragher? :laugh:

Also, when he took over at Celtic they were shambolic and Rangers well and truly ruled the roost. O'Neill changed all that. His record at Wycombe Wanderers weren't too shabby either as I recall. Took them into the football league and (I think) got them promoted. The "what would he do at a really big club" is a fair question, but his record is excellent wherever he's been.

by **Emerald Red** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:49 am

People talking of MON taking over here need to give their heads a good shaking. MON is a decent manager, but he can't hack both the league and the big stage of Europe. Add to that the pressure of managing a massive club with the European pedigree of Liverpool, the man would shrivel up and die. If people want to talk resources and money, Villa have spent MORE than us this season. Yes, Villa. Spending more than us. Reality check, folks. MON should never even be considered. Ever. Last resort to keep the ship afloat if Rafa packs it in, aye. Maybe.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:10 am

Emerald Red wrote:People talking of MON taking over here need to give their heads a good shaking. MON is a decent manager, but he can't hack both the league and the big stage of Europe. Add to that the pressure of managing a massive club with the European pedigree of Liverpool, the man would shrivel up and die. If people want to talk resources and money, Villa have spent MORE than us this season. Yes, Villa. Spending more than us. Reality check, folks. MON should never even be considered. Ever. Last resort to keep the ship afloat if Rafa packs it in, aye. Maybe.

Yes,they have spent more than us this season, but last season VILLA spent NOTHING on transfers, infact they made a profit on transfers last season. While we spent how much on Torres, Masch, Babel etc etc . When was the last time Liverpool made a profit on transfers?

I had never really rated O'Neill that highly, and when he was rumoured to be on the shortlist to take over from Houllier I wasn't thrilled, but I think he has done a great job at Villa, spent his money well, and could well be a top manager if given the chance. Like Mick I wouldn't have him at the top of my list yet, but he is certainly climbing the ladder.

I still think we should be concentrating on this season......not fighting over who is the best replacement for Rafa.

by **LegBarnes** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:31 am

Emerald Red wrote:People talking of MON taking over here need to give their heads a good shaking. MON is a decent manager, but he can't hack both the league and the big stage of Europe. Add to that the pressure of managing a massive club with the European pedigree of Liverpool, the man would shrivel up and die. If people want to talk resources and money, Villa have spent MORE than us this season. Yes, Villa. Spending more than us. Reality check, folks. MON should never even be considered. Ever. Last resort to keep the ship afloat if Rafa packs it in, aye. Maybe.

Yeah they have spent more then us but they didn't have as good squad as we did 4 years ago did they.

To say MoN hasn't done one of best jobs going last 2 years at villa is just pointing out how little you understand the game.

For them to be breaking into the top 4 is massive and shouldn't be taken lightly as they could leap frog us if we not careful and have a good run of results.

Then where will you hide ?

I feel he is very good manager , little mad at times but you have to be to manage up in scotland it very cold.

I feel he is a better prem manager then rafa ever will be and he has a great not on of the english games but also the players in the english game.

I feel we have been lacking some good english lads in teams since only good ones we have are gerrard and carra.

Also isn't that the problem we have atm that we want to win prem and not CL so wouldn't it be good to have manager who can win that.

Of course I am not saying 100% he can win it MoN but who knows at a bigger club with better supports and so much passion any thing can happen and normaly does.

by **Owzat** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:42 pm

bigmick wrote:Since we're doing the stats though, I might be wrong here but didn't O'Neill actually take Leicester up tinot the Premiership beofre that run of top 10 finishes?

You mean like Chimp and McCarthy did with Slumberland, Jewell did with Wigan etc. What I should have added, wanted to, but had already switched the PC off this morning, was that once you get a side good enough or working well as a team enough to finish top 10 then that is the hard bit done and finishing it four seasons in a row isn't too hard. Like us being top four consistently, we either have to get very bad quickly or other teams have to get better than us.

bigmick wrote:Also, Owz I must say including Barry as "well he's supposed to be worth 18 million" in transfer money spent is manipulation of numbers to a laughable extent. So do we add 75 million onto what Rafa has spent because that's what Gerrard is worth, or make it 90 million to include Carragher?

Did Rafa say Gerrard is worth £75m or did someone bit that for him? (aside question) I didn't say O'Neill spent that, just a mocking comment on the value - you could add another £20m onto Young for being worth £30m - or whatever Messi would cost. We are indeed fortunate that two of our best five players (maybe even two of best three) cost nothing. That in itself is worrying since Rafa spent £150m on the rest and they're still among the very best players at the club

bigmick wrote:Also, when he took over at Celtic they were shambolic and Rangers well and truly ruled the roost. O'Neill changed all that.

Two horse race. And wasn't their key player Larsson signed by Wim Jansen? (cheated a bit, knew it wasn't MON who signed him) They won the league in 1998 and MON took over in 2000 so it wasn't as if the team was completely useless. And Strachan has managed to keep Celtic going with a much different team, it's not like what whiskeynose did with Aberdeen - never done before or since (he won three of their four SPL titles during his reign, the previous title was 54/55)

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