Liverpool FC Forum

by **Madmax** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:52 am

Exactly thats the problem i have. I dont mind macha playing deep because a player like that is needed but for me i would want alonso to attack more. WE cant always rely on torres and gerrard. Our wings dont seem to be good enough to contribute.

by **bigmick** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:05 am

I don't think in his current state of mind Rafa woud win the Premiership with any club tbh. If he was managing Man Utd he'd be styling like an absolute lunatic, Berbatov would have played about 6 matches and then been jettisoned to the reserves for not tackling back, and darren Fletcher would be playing every match at left midfield, running around a lot.

At Chelsea he'd be in the press every day talking about Abrhamovic and the fact that he hasn't anywhere near as much money as Liverpool and Man Utd to spend, at Villa he wouldn't have signed any of the players O'Neil did. Can anyone really see Rafa paying 11 million for Ashl;ey Young from Watford, or signing Luke Young, or Stilian Petrov, or Zak Knight, or Curtis Davis, or Nigel Reo Coker? (when you put it like that it's incredible they are a point behind us it really is). At Arsenal he'd be busy redesigning the way they play to make them harder to beat, helping them to "control" games better.

I say it all only partially in jest. I think his methodology (mass rotation, not going abolutely all out for wins etc) is unsuited to the Premiership. Unless he changes that, it'll be an uhill struggle. He might I suppose win the title with Man Utd if he took over on Monday (and we'd just drawn with Chelsea).

by **LegBarnes** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:08 am

bigmick wrote:I don't think in his current state of mind Rafa woud win the Premiership with any club tbh. If he was managing Man Utd he'd be styling like an absolute lunatic, Berbatov would have played about 6 matches and then been jettisoned to the reserves for not tackling back, and darren Fletcher would be playing every match at left midfield, running around a lot.

At Chelsea he'd be in the press every day talking about Abrhamovic and the fact that he hasn't anywhere near as much money as Liverpool and Man Utd to spend, at Villa he wouldn't have signed any of the players O'Neil did. Can anyone really see Rafa paying 11 million for Ashl;ey Young from Watford, or signing Luke Young, or Stilian Petrov, or Zak Knight, or Curtis Davis, or Nigel Reo Coker? (when you put it like that it's incredible they are a point behind us it really is). At Arsenal he'd be busy redesigning the way they play to make them harder to beat, helping them to "control" games better.

I say it all only partially in jest. I think his methodology (mass rotation, not going abolutely all out for wins etc) is unsuited to the Premiership. Unless he changes that, it'll be an uhill struggle. He might I suppose win the title with Man Utd if he took over on Monday (and we'd just drawn with Chelsea).

wow thats gotta be most negitive post i ever seen you write mick but even tho its 100% true.

You forgot to mention tho ronaldo wouldn't even get started on wing cos he don't track but he has john O'shay there week in week out. :oops:

by **Madmax** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:11 am

LegBarnes wrote:
bigmick wrote:I don't think in his current state of mind Rafa woud win the Premiership with any club tbh. If he was managing Man Utd he'd be styling like an absolute lunatic, Berbatov would have played about 6 matches and then been jettisoned to the reserves for not tackling back, and darren Fletcher would be playing every match at left midfield, running around a lot.

At Chelsea he'd be in the press every day talking about Abrhamovic and the fact that he hasn't anywhere near as much money as Liverpool and Man Utd to spend, at Villa he wouldn't have signed any of the players O'Neil did. Can anyone really see Rafa paying 11 million for Ashl;ey Young from Watford, or signing Luke Young, or Stilian Petrov, or Zak Knight, or Curtis Davis, or Nigel Reo Coker? (when you put it like that it's incredible they are a point behind us it really is). At Arsenal he'd be busy redesigning the way they play to make them harder to beat, helping them to "control" games better.

I say it all only partially in jest. I think his methodology (mass rotation, not going abolutely all out for wins etc) is unsuited to the Premiership. Unless he changes that, it'll be an uhill struggle. He might I suppose win the title with Man Utd if he took over on Monday (and we'd just drawn with Chelsea).

wow thats gotta be most negitive post i ever seen you write mick but even tho its 100% true.

You forgot to mention tho ronaldo wouldn't even get started on wing cos he don't track but he has john O'shay there week in week out.

He did the same with valencia. They won the title but only just due to other teams dropping heavily. Thats how he works and thats the results you get. Many many draws......

by **LegBarnes** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:14 am

Yeah in spain most teams play very agressive and due to this many drop silly points if they have a bad week so I guess rafa out in spain playing this type of football is great and can win La leagua ! or how ever you spell it not great at spanish.

But over here we have real deal teams attack well and defend well naturaly and teams like mancs do it very well indeed.

I feel if you have the players you need to attack and if not you need to defend its always been like that over here , I cant see it changing tbh.

by **Madmax** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:21 am

I had really high hope when we bached newcastle 5-1 really thought yeah this will be it our season. So sick of waiting and waiting whilst mannure take the glory.. If we do fail to win the league but mount a decent challenge and and win the champs league i will be very happy. Also if we win the F.A cup aswel.. I think im pushing it now

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:11 am

Reg wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
Reg wrote:the fact of the matter is: Martin O´Neill is a better premiership manager than Benitez.

Was Phil Brown as well two months ago ?

Fickle.

I´m not fickle Leon, MON took over at Villa with little funds and has slowly but surely built a strong team. No fuss, no constant press speculation and fanfare, just done a solid job.

Rafa´s going off the rails mate, he´s lost the plot scarily similar to Kenny, Evans and Houllier. (Souness never knew the plot).

Time for Rafa to go to church and make his peace. Time for him to act like MON.

What's he won?

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:18 am

You know what? This thread has been hijacked by the negativity brigade and, as such, is full of sh*t.

I notice in particular that one piece of sh*t has now returned to basque in the collective misery of being 2 points off the top...

by **Bam** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:21 am

I dont agree with the notion that MON is better than Rafa, not for one minute, although he probably does have some traits the Spainard could do with, possibly.

But now the question is .. "whats O'Neill won" silly question really, you still can see achievements or progress through a managers term without the silverware.

Or otherwise couldnt we ask the same about Rafa since 2005 ?

by **Bam** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:23 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:You know what? This thread has been hijacked by the negativity brigade and, as such, is full of sh*t.

I notice in particular that one piece of sh*t has now returned to basque in the collective misery of being 2 points off the top...

Well instead of your ferrell abuse you so well know to spout why dont you try and post something positive and constructive, or is that beyond you aswell ?

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:24 am

Bam wrote:I dont agree with the notion that MON is better than Rafa, not for one minute, although he probably does have some traits the Spainard could do with, possibly.

But now the question is .. "whats O'Neill won" silly question really, you still can see achievements or progress through a managers term without the silverware.

Or otherwise couldnt we ask the same about Rafa since 2005 ?

I could have sworn Rafa's trophy collection from management is a bit bigger than Martin O'Neill's.

In fact, I'll put my house on it.

BTW - FA Cup, 2006. European Super Cup, 2005. 1 of which O'Neill will never get his grubby little hands on.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:26 am

Bam wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:You know what? This thread has been hijacked by the negativity brigade and, as such, is full of sh*t.

I notice in particular that one piece of sh*t has now returned to basque in the collective misery of being 2 points off the top...

Well instead of your ferrell abuse you so well know to spout why dont you try and post something positive and constructive, or is that beyond you aswell ?

Positivity gets shot down quicker than a Muslim in a tube station.

I'm long past humouring the scum in here.

by **tonyeh** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:28 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
Reg wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
Reg wrote:the fact of the matter is: Martin O´Neill is a better premiership manager than Benitez.

Was Phil Brown as well two months ago ?

Fickle.

I´m not fickle Leon, MON took over at Villa with little funds and has slowly but surely built a strong team. No fuss, no constant press speculation and fanfare, just done a solid job.

Rafa´s going off the rails mate, he´s lost the plot scarily similar to Kenny, Evans and Houllier. (Souness never knew the plot).

Time for Rafa to go to church and make his peace. Time for him to act like MON.

What's he won?

Three Scottish league titles with Celtic and a few cups too. First manager to get a Scottish team to the CL. Got to a Uefa cup final (but beaten by Porto).

That's not bad, considering what he had to work with.

On top of that, he's done great at Villa, with the limited resources there.

That's what he's done.

by **Effes** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:32 am

tonyeh wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
Reg wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
Reg wrote:the fact of the matter is: Martin O´Neill is a better premiership manager than Benitez.

Was Phil Brown as well two months ago ?

Fickle.

I´m not fickle Leon, MON took over at Villa with little funds and has slowly but surely built a strong team. No fuss, no constant press speculation and fanfare, just done a solid job.

Rafa´s going off the rails mate, he´s lost the plot scarily similar to Kenny, Evans and Houllier. (Souness never knew the plot).

Time for Rafa to go to church and make his peace. Time for him to act like MON.

What's he won?

Three Scottish league titles with Celtic and a few cups too. First manager to get a Scottish team to the CL. Got to a Uefa cup final (but beaten by Porto).

That's not bad, considering what he had to work with.

On top of that, he's done great at Villa, with the limited resources there.

That's what he's done.

Tony dont - he may call you a yoghurt too :laugh:

by **bigmick** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:39 am

I think Martin O'Neil also won the Coca Cola Cup with Leicester as well as I recall. Their first piece of silverware probably in history I should think. I think he took them up from the Championship into the Premiership as well, and wasn't it the case that Celtic hadn't won the Scottish Prem for a while when he went there? Rangers were in domination mode at the time.

I remember Celtic poutting us out of Europe during his tenure there as well. They were of course very unfortunate in the final of the UEFA against Mourinho's Porto (practically the same team with which Mourinho won the Champions League the following season).

So in terms of trophies won, I should think O'Neil is miles clear. I suspect Lando is talking more about the prestige rather the number of trophies. La Liga is certainly a prestigious notch on the belt, regardless of the fact it was in the middle of something of a lull for the big two over there. That said O'Neil has never managed a team in La Liga (nor is he likely to) so you can't really hold it against him.

You might argue that the only way you can really compare the two managers is in like for like competitions where they both compete. The easiest is the Premiership, where Rafa is ahead of O'Neil this season by a point. Whether or not that's a good achievement by Rafa or O'Neil is for others to judge.

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