Liverpool FC Forum

GYBS wrote:Do you knwo where babel played for Ajax and Ajax resserves and for the national team Leg

GYBS wrote:but he didnt play up front as a striker thou did he ? he played as a wide left forward or left winger while playing for Ajax or The Dutch international team and was playing there when the dutch under 21s where doing well .

Owzat wrote:

s@int wrote:He is such a wily tactician

How is he? By dumping our most effective formation during his reign in order to fit a £20.3m striker in? And then when that didn't work, and Torres was injured, by playing Kuyt as a solo striker despite his shortcomings as a striker. Or by bringing on a sub around the same time every match, usually Babel for Riera first up, Keane off if he's even on and even Lucas when we're chasing goals.

We turned a few games around early season, was that down to Rafa or just a bit of fortune /down to the quality of Gerrard and Torres? And if it was down to Rafa, how come he can't perform the same magic when we need it?

And if he's so clever, how come his solutions include our best CB at FB, our best RM at CF, our most annoyingly unproductive player (Babel) at LM and all kinds of theories that rarely pay off?

I beg to differ with the notion Rafa is a tactical genius, when he can beat Hull, Stoke, Fulham, West Ham, everton and other ordinary teams consistently - even score more than four goals in seven games against them (excludes the away win at goodison) - then maybe we can discuss tactical genius. FFS when we need to win he even leaves a £20.3m striker on the bench/out of the squad, he doesn't use all of his subs and struggles to find a way to break down any team that is remotely competent defensively. Surely a tactical genius would be able to combat any threat they pose and find a way to unlock their defence. Does Rafa? Couldn't combat the set-piece threat of a strikerless everton side. Couldn't even combat a threat of Hull's pace against Dossena, took an injury to their RB to negate that threat.

We even looked poor against Stoke away, does Rafa change things at half-time or is he took stuck in his inflexible tactics that (one of, if not) the earliest he's ever made a tactical change this season is when he took Keane off before the hour mark against Atletico Madrid. I don't like Josie, but he'd see the way a game is going and change it at half time. He wouldn't wait, and wait, and wait some more before making the substitutions Rafa has to have in mind BEFORE kick-off, they're that predictable. There's that evidence, and the fact that it's not always/often the player having the worst game who's taken off first/at all.

I suspect Rafa doesn't see anything wrong with his zonal marking, substitutions etc. I reckon he, like us on here, points the fingers at players incapable of making what he imagines is a great system/tactic work. Unlike us, he is the one who bought the players he has to work with and he's the one who can do something about what happens on the pitch.

If we are to fail to win the league under Rafa, I can see his tactical stubborness/failings being a prime reason. The players we have should be beating teams we're not beating, the buck has to stop at the manager. If they're not good enough, they shouldn't be playing or even have been signed. If they are good enough, he should be getting better results out of them. Either way, the buck stops at the manager.

[B]

I've been saying this for a long time on here. Kudos.

Avi Cohen wrote:

Owzat wrote:

s@int wrote:He is such a wily tactician

How is he? By dumping our most effective formation during his reign in order to fit a £20.3m striker in? And then when that didn't work, and Torres was injured, by playing Kuyt as a solo striker despite his shortcomings as a striker. Or by bringing on a sub around the same time every match, usually Babel for Riera first up, Keane off if he's even on and even Lucas when we're chasing goals.

We turned a few games around early season, was that down to Rafa or just a bit of fortune /down to the quality of Gerrard and Torres? And if it was down to Rafa, how come he can't perform the same magic when we need it?

And if he's so clever, how come his solutions include our best CB at FB, our best RM at CF, our most annoyingly unproductive player (Babel) at LM and all kinds of theories that rarely pay off?

I beg to differ with the notion Rafa is a tactical genius, when he can beat Hull, Stoke, Fulham, West Ham, everton and other ordinary teams consistently - even score more than four goals in seven games against them (excludes the away win at goodison) - then maybe we can discuss tactical genius. FFS when we need to win he even leaves a £20.3m striker on the bench/out of the squad, he doesn't use all of his subs and struggles to find a way to break down any team that is remotely competent defensively. Surely a tactical genius would be able to combat any threat they pose and find a way to unlock their defence. Does Rafa? Couldn't combat the set-piece threat of a strikerless everton side. Couldn't even combat a threat of Hull's pace against Dossena, took an injury to their RB to negate that threat.

We even looked poor against Stoke away, does Rafa change things at half-time or is he took stuck in his inflexible tactics that (one of, if not) the earliest he's ever made a tactical change this season is when he took Keane off before the hour mark against Atletico Madrid. I don't like Josie, but he'd see the way a game is going and change it at half time. He wouldn't wait, and wait, and wait some more before making the substitutions Rafa has to have in mind BEFORE kick-off, they're that predictable. There's that evidence, and the fact that it's not always/often the player having the worst game who's taken off first/at all.

I suspect Rafa doesn't see anything wrong with his zonal marking, substitutions etc. I reckon he, like us on here, points the fingers at players incapable of making what he imagines is a great system/tactic work. Unlike us, he is the one who bought the players he has to work with and he's the one who can do something about what happens on the pitch.

If we are to fail to win the league under Rafa, I can see his tactical stubborness/failings being a prime reason. The players we have should be beating teams we're not beating, the buck has to stop at the manager. If they're not good enough, they shouldn't be playing or even have been signed. If they are good enough, he should be getting better results out of them. Either way, the buck stops at the manager.

[B]

I've been saying this for a long time on here. Kudos.

Its just what I say its simple logic many on here fail to have simple logic.

redmikey wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

LegBarnes wrote:What you all fail to see tho is that rafa has now his built team he bought 95% of his team and now its his teams.

No where to hide for him now if the teams fails he has failed as this is what he has chosen.

I get mad at way some of you slag of the of the players like kuyt and babel , and whats even more wierd is that they are both not playing in there right positions.

Never mind why not have a go at alonso who was playing in the right position and had a shocker.

But like I said its pointless to talk about these things when its rafa's team now and if we win I will praise him as much as if he fails I will say about it.

What you fail to see is that due to the owners past and present, this team is by and large full of Rafa's 2nd-5th choice players per position.

Dossena or Heinze?

Arbeloa or Alves?

Agger or Vidic? (The fact we were pursuing both anyway is a testament to the gaffer.)

Pennant or Simao?

Kuyt or Villa?

Riera or Barry? (Again - testament to the gaffer's planning that he got Albert at the "last minute" (when in reality the deal would have been on standby for weeks.))

The only current "starting 11" players here who appear to be Rafa's first choices are Torres, Mascher, Alonso and Reina.

Kuyt was bought because Morientes didn't work out. No-one could have foreseen that, and you're a liar if you try and tell me otherwise.

Babel was bought for potential, along with Lucas and several others. They were never bought to go straight into the team.

Josemi et al were only ever stop-gaps, and who can argue that the 1st arrival of Rafa's reign didn't bring out the best in Finnan and turn him into the best defensive rightback in the Premiership?
I have no doubt missed someone out, but who cares? The gist is there.

Oh, and the other thing you fail to see, is that you are a plonker.

and the best post yet goes to lando for not jumpin on anyband wagon and talkin b@llocks!!!!!!!!!!!

alot of folks on here wanna stop gettin your opinions of the back pages ......w@nkers

Number 9 wrote:

LegBarnes wrote:any ways have to go got freinds round now having soke bevies I be on later prob peace.

Dont talk about footy to them or they'll go home!


Joking lad..have a good one!

LegBarnes wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

LegBarnes wrote:What you all fail to see tho is that rafa has now his built team he bought 95% of his team and now its his teams.

No where to hide for him now if the teams fails he has failed as this is what he has chosen.

I get mad at way some of you slag of the of the players like kuyt and babel , and whats even more wierd is that they are both not playing in there right positions.

Never mind why not have a go at alonso who was playing in the right position and had a shocker.

But like I said its pointless to talk about these things when its rafa's team now and if we win I will praise him as much as if he fails I will say about it.

What you fail to see is that due to the owners past and present, this team is by and large full of Rafa's 2nd-5th choice players per position.

Dossena or Heinze?

Arbeloa or Alves?

Agger or Vidic? (The fact we were pursuing both anyway is a testament to the gaffer.)

Pennant or Simao?

Kuyt or Villa?

Riera or Barry? (Again - testament to the gaffer's planning that he got Albert at the "last minute" (when in reality the deal would have been on standby for weeks.))

The only current "starting 11" players here who appear to be Rafa's first choices are Torres, Mascher, Alonso and Reina.

Kuyt was bought because Morientes didn't work out. No-one could have foreseen that, and you're a liar if you try and tell me otherwise.

Babel was bought for potential, along with Lucas and several others. They were never bought to go straight into the team.

Josemi et al were only ever stop-gaps, and who can argue that the 1st arrival of Rafa's reign didn't bring out the best in Finnan and turn him into the best defensive rightback in the Premiership?
I have no doubt missed someone out, but who cares? The gist is there.

Oh, and the other thing you fail to see, is that you are a plonker.

Thats all very well lando but he still bought players he thought would work and alot of them don't so he hasn't done the best with what he has.

It wasn't a case of "Ooooh, look at how truly brilliant Kuyt is. I know - rather than buy David Villa or Thiery Henry, I'll plump for Dirk as he's so much better than both."

It was probably a case of:

Rafa: "Rick, I want David Villa here yesterday."
Parry: "Erm, OK Raff, I'll see about it when I come back off me holidays, alright?"
Rafa: "No Rick - if we leave it, another club will jump in and force the price up. It needs to be sorted out quickly"
Parry: "Bon Voyage Raff - see you in 3 weeks."
Rafa: "You think c*nt. "

A similar scenario for Henry et al, then having to settle for Kuyt, the only one who's club didn't increase the value/player get cold feet over Parry's dallying.

We NEEDED a striker. No ifs, buts or maybes. We HAD to buy one, so Rafa HAD to buy players who were nothing like his ideal choices.

With our successes in mind, how can you possibly say he hasn't done the best with what he has?

Plonker.

LegBarnes wrote:

Number 9 wrote:

LegBarnes wrote:any ways have to go got freinds round now having soke bevies I be on later prob peace.

Dont talk about footy to them or they'll go home!


Joking lad..have a good one!

hey thx I missed that comment was to in rush up shops for some drinks thx its nice when people are nice like !

Effes wrote:

LegBarnes wrote:

Number 9 wrote:

LegBarnes wrote:any ways have to go got freinds round now having soke bevies I be on later prob peace.

Dont talk about footy to them or they'll go home!


Joking lad..have a good one!

hey thx I missed that comment was to in rush up shops for some drinks thx its nice when people are nice like !

GYBS wrote:Ok well its true about pennant and simao - its true about vidic , its true about alves , its true about heinze and its true that rafa wanted another striker that summer but ended up getting kuyt and its true that parry did go on holiday for three weeks during that summer .