Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bam** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:11 am

I havent been able to watch any of the matches since the turn of the year :veryangry

But by going on recent results if I had of watched them I'd of been :veryangry

never the less.

But here are my thoughts on how the seasons panning out ... During the Summer I remember a minor debate on here in regards to winning the title. Many seasoned posters were of the thought, that to win the league you have to be in the mix a season or two prior to winning it. I didnt agree peronally, I believe if your good enough in anyone particular season you can more or less come from fourth spot to first spot. It does now seem that the posters who were of the opinion that you need to be in the mix to win the league, are the ones who are dissatisfied with our current position. While I believed we could win the trophy from nowhere, I am now content with our position and I think I will be if we finnish second. Weird how things change, and I sincerely mean that.

Just recently the tide has swung in Man Uniteds favour and ever the optimist in me, says Man United will equal our record. That in itself is a sickening thought, but if our lads can hang in there and scrap their way to second, I reckon come the end of the season I'll be proud of them. Even though I stated as I do mostly at the begining of every season that we'll be able to win the league. Like most my optimsim levels went into overdrive at the begining of November, we were in a great position and of course could of even been better off than what we was. Since then Man United have cruised their way back to the top, while we've huffed and puffed to maintain pace. It certainly looks as though we've done a 'Paula Radcliffe' while running the marathon our head has been wobbling from side to side, and although we havent cracked up and balled our eyes out the momentum certainly looks as though its gone sideways rather the onwards.

This post of how our season has basically panned/panning out may sound rather pessimstic. But in saying all that there is a little part of me that believes we can still claw our way back into it and maintain pace. I play down our chances, so that when the time comes and we dont/possibly win the league, I wont fall off of a big fecking high. The drop is to big, instead I wont talk it up, prefer not to talk us up, I prefer it when sly and the media dont talk us up, just as Istanbul showed we seem to perform better when we're written off. I hope that continues to happen and the media and sly alike continue their Love affair with Man United, because if we do by chance win it, it will make victory all that more sweater.

Jog on

by **Bam** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:31 am

BTW feck knows what the titles about :blues:

by **Effes** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:35 am

Bam wrote:BTW feck knows what the titles about

Makes more sense than your post mate

by **milou** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:28 am

Bam wrote:I havent been able to watch any of the matches since the turn of the year But by going on recent results if I had of watched them I'd of been never the less.

But here are my thoughts on how the seasons panning out ... During the Summer I remember a minor debate on here in regards to winning the title. Many seasoned posters were of the thought, that to win the league you have to be in the mix a season or two prior to winning it. I didnt agree peronally, I believe if your good enough in anyone particular season you can more or less come from fourth spot to first spot. It does now seem that the posters who were of the opinion that you need to be in the mix to win the league, are the ones who are dissatisfied with our current position. While I believed we could win the trophy from nowhere, I am now content with our position and I think I will be if we finnish second. Weird how things change, and I sincerely mean that.

Just recently the tide has swung in Man Uniteds favour and ever the optimist in me, says Man United will equal our record. That in itself is a sickening thought, but if our lads can hang in there and scrap their way to second, I reckon come the end of the season I'll be proud of them. Even though I stated as I do mostly at the begining of every season that we'll be able to win the league. Like most my optimsim levels went into overdrive at the begining of November, we were in a great position and of course could of even been better off than what we was. Since then Man United have cruised their way back to the top, while we've huffed and puffed to maintain pace. It certainly looks as though we've done a 'Paula Radcliffe' while running the marathon our head has been wobbling from side to side, and although we havent cracked up and balled our eyes out the momentum certainly looks as though its gone sideways rather the onwards.

This post of how our season has basically panned/panning out may sound rather pessimstic. But in saying all that there is a little part of me that believes we can still claw our way back into it and maintain pace. I play down our chances, so that when the time comes and we dont/possibly win the league, I wont fall off of a big fecking high. The drop is to big, instead I wont talk it up, prefer not to talk us up, I prefer it when sly and the media dont talk us up, just as Istanbul showed we seem to perform better when we're written off. I hope that continues to happen and the media and sly alike continue their Love affair with Man United, because if we do by chance win it, it will make victory all that more sweater.

Jog on

The title is a weird one but the topic is relevant nonetheless IMHO

I see this thread as a view on the big picture... rather than all the nitty-gritty, name-calling, labeling and over-analysis of each and every Rafa's decision (which I still do sometimes by the way

).

Joint top and level on points in the league in Jan, cruising in Europe (again) while having lost only ONE game along the way (Carling cup doesn't really count for me)?

I seriously doubt there is a single fan who wouldn't bite off your hands if you offered this before season started!

That the fact that we achieved this feat without our star striker most of the time & having spent 40mil on more than a couple of "flops" is even more amazing but equally made many people wonder "what it may have been".

So many of us think we should be about 6pts clear the top, and rightly so. Anything more than 6pts (by turning 3 draws into wins) are seriosuly unrealistic and very far-fetched IMHO.

But reality check here.. History has shown that you can actually throw away an even bigger lead after Jan. In that faithful year, Newcastle threw away a 12pts lead and ended the season 5pts behind Man Utd.. That's a 17pts swing! More recently, Arsenal also squandered a reasonably big lead last season and ended the season 3rd.

So by NO means, it is over yet.. it is 100% NOT. But we have to click in gear IMMEDIATELY bcos not only is Man Utd having a slight advantage on points now, they also have an even bigger advantage in terms of their experience of "been there done that". The pressure is on us, not them.

Ultimately, we have to dig deeper and try harder than them to prevail.. bcos the first time (after all these years) is always the hardest. Just see how EVERYONE is fearing us now in europe after 2005. But the fact is we actually also play MUCH better and MUCH more confidently in Europe.

I argue in another thread that we have a big task now to instill the same "winning mentality" in the league, what we already achieved in Europe under Rafa.

I will keep believing until it is mathematically not possible anymore (I always do every year

) But there is still A LOT of mathematics to be done bcos there are still a staggering 48pts to go!

Come on! YNWA..

by **Owzat** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:01 am

Bam wrote:Many seasoned posters were of the thought, that to win the league you have to be in the mix a season or two prior to winning it. I didnt agree peronally, I believe if your good enough in anyone particular season you can more or less come from fourth spot to first spot.

Last teams to have won the title having finished in identified position previous season*

1st : Man Utd (06/07 Champions, 07/08 Champions)
2nd : Man Utd (05/06 2nd, 06/07 Champions)
3rd : Man Utd (01/02 3rd, 02/03 Champions)
4th : Leeds Utd (90/91 4th, 91/92 Champions)
5th : LIVERPOOL (80/81 5th, 81/82 Champions)
6th Arsenal (87/88 6th, 88/89 Champions)
7th Everton (83/84 7th, 84/85 Champions)

Sides stopped winning the league from lower/having been promoted since the 70s ended - in fact Forest winning it having been promoted the previous season is the next chronological entry

*should make sense once you've read the list

So no team has won the Premiership having finished fourth the previous season. To me it is significant because of the money domination of the Premiership. While manc fans might like to think they haven't bought the Premiership, they have been big spenders throughout with few to best them on that score. Who gives two sheets if the money was "earned", didn't stop them paying £30m for Ferdinand, £28.1m for Veron etc with it.

Point being there is strong evidence that it is hard to spring into contention from nowhere. Even Chelsea finished 2nd the season before they won it. In fact only TWICE has a team finished outside the top two and won the Premiership the following season - Arsenal did it having finished 3rd in 96/97, Man Utd did it in 01/02 as above.

And if you don't feel the stats are significant, then the changing times of football kicked in before. FIVE sides have won the league having been promoted the previous season - NONE since Forest were promoted in 76/77 and won their ONLY league title in 77/78. Tell me you believe that a team will win the league title after promotion and I'll suggest you see a psychiatrist. It's possible but so unlikely it's sad. Maybe if a rich arab wanted to make it possible it might happen, be hard to get good enough footballers to make such moves - see citeh for example

If anyone is worried about the mancs overtaking our league titles record, no team has EVER won more than three league titles in a row - not us, not the mancs, noone

by **Judge** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:29 am

owzat

by **andy_g** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:45 am

i wouldn't exactly say that the mancs have cruised to the top. they've had a series of wins for sure but a lot of those have been 1-0s and many of those have been a goal scored at the death. they might have outplayed chelsea, but so did we, and they certainly made much harder work of beating bolton.

the truth is that neither us of are in form but they have been able to grind out a win where we haven't. the title will be won by whichever of us, the mancs or chelsea manages to hit proper form first.

by **Owzat** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:16 pm

andy_g wrote:they certainly made much harder work of beating bolton.

And we made beating stoke impossible ie we didn't

by **Reg** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:27 pm

Owzat wrote:
andy_g wrote:they certainly made much harder work of beating bolton.

And we made beating stoke impossible ie we didn't

3 points are 3 points and thats the difference betweeen first and second.....

by **Owzat** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:08 pm

Reg wrote:
Owzat wrote:
andy_g wrote:they certainly made much harder work of beating bolton.

And we made beating stoke impossible ie we didn't

3 points are 3 points and thats the difference betweeen first and second.....

Exactly. Whatever the underlying reason, the mancs are simply picking up more points than us and beating the sides they should. Their two defeats this season to us and Arsenal (I believe), our's to a side that was sitting bottom or very close at the time. They have also perfected keeping clean sheets, despite the backing one of our members gave to the zonal marking system, we are conceding more goals than the mancs - even if it isn't very many.

I was playing CM last night as Falkirk. Lost two of the first four SPL games, but ended up winning the league by something like 15 points with 27 wins from the last 34 games (overall P38 W29 D5 L4) Point the team was winning regularly, it became habitual and draws cost the other teams not me. I didn't have a team of superstars, no money to do it with which is why I picked Falkirk.

by **andy_g** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:18 pm

Owzat wrote:
andy_g wrote:they certainly made much harder work of beating bolton.

And we made beating stoke impossible ie we didn't

very true. i'm just making the point that the mancs aren't on the incredible unbeatable form that many are making them out to be.

by **Judge** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:39 pm

andy_g wrote:
Owzat wrote:
andy_g wrote:they certainly made much harder work of beating bolton.

And we made beating stoke impossible ie we didn't

very true. i'm just making the point that the mancs aren't on the incredible unbeatable form that many are making them out to be.

that is true, they just havent lost

by **Owzat** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:52 am

Judge wrote:
andy_g wrote:
Owzat wrote:
andy_g wrote:they certainly made much harder work of beating bolton.

And we made beating stoke impossible ie we didn't

very true. i'm just making the point that the mancs aren't on the incredible unbeatable form that many are making them out to be.

that is true, they just havent lost

They just haven't lost - to anyone outside the 'big four' (in the league) When we were winning scrappily and unconvincingly, playing poorly, so many on here rammed down our throats that we would pick up form, that winning scrappily was the sign of champions, blah blah blah. Now the CURRENT CHAMPIONS of England are in a run of 10 clean sheets, won eight out of 10 and top with a game in hand some are clutching at straws :

- "they certainly made much harder work of beating bolton"

- "the mancs aren't on the incredible unbeatable form that many are making them out to be"

Can I borrow your rose tinted specs andy_g? The ones that give everything you look at a positive tint.

Where is that rolleyes emoticon?

by **andy_g** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:13 pm

Owzat wrote:They just haven't lost - to anyone outside the 'big four' (in the league) When we were winning scrappily and unconvincingly, playing poorly, so many on here rammed down our throats that we would pick up form, that winning scrappily was the sign of champions, blah blah blah. Now the CURRENT CHAMPIONS of England are in a run of 10 clean sheets, won eight out of 10 and top with a game in hand some are clutching at straws :

- "they certainly made much harder work of beating bolton"

- "the mancs aren't on the incredible unbeatable form that many are making them out to be"

Can I borrow your rose tinted specs andy_g? The ones that give everything you look at a positive tint.

Where is that rolleyes emoticon?

believe me, owzat, i am far from being one of the rose tinted brigade, the happy clappy brigade, or any of the other brigades that demand blind optimism. i wouldn't say i'm pessimistic about our chances of getting on top again but i don't think its going to be very easy either unless we somehow find a way to get in good form and more importantly keep that good form going for a long run of games - including chelsea at our place and the mancs at theirs.

the point i'm making, which for some reason seems to offend you, is that i don't think that the mancs are on any kind of fantastic form either. and i don't think its being reactionary in any way to say that. they haven't been beaten by anyone outside of the top four, that's true. they've beaten some teams outside the top four that we have only drawn with, that's also true. but many of those wins have been by virtue of a very late goal after 90 minutes of ineffective huff and puff.

i think it has to be accepted that they are just about as likely to come unstuck as we are in one or two games. mick speaks a lot about this not being a vintage year for the premiership and i think its generally true. while the mancs may have used their games in hand to haul us in they haven't done it in any kind of swashbuckling style.

like i said, the first team to hit a good run of form out of us, the mancs or chelsea is probably the team that will win the title this season.

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