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by **Number 9** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:58 pm

On a serious note though.
Obama has signed papers to close Guantanamo bay!
Now I'm not saying all the men their are guilty but I'd say the majority of them are.
What are they gonna do with them all then?Just set them free?

Personally I think they should all be given a trial for whatever crime they were interned for and any ones that are guilty should be punished and the innocent ones should be compensated for their ordeal!

by **Fowler_E7** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:32 pm

Number 9 wrote:On a serious note though.
Obama has signed papers to close Guantanamo bay!
Now I'm not saying all the men their are guilty but I'd say the majority of them are.
What are they gonna do with them all then?Just set them free?

Personally I think they should all be given a trial for whatever crime they were interned for and any ones that are guilty should be punished and the innocent ones should be compensated for their ordeal!

none of them have been charged with anything even though they been locked up for years now, its a disgrace and i hope they all make a fortune in compensation

by **Bam** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:36 am

I cannot see too much foreign policy changing that radically that some dreamers will have you believe. By the same token the many on here who detested Bush for standing by Israel and going to war with Iraq and Afghanistan may have to remember that when Obama's time comes, he'll more than likely be playing the same tune as Bush. I very much doubt Obama will get the stick that Bush did, but like it or not America will always keep Israel a close allie.

Obama may pull troops out of Iraq, good on him if he does, I think the way our own troops get treated by the Government in payouts and wages is disgraceful personally. I believe they should come home for that alone and I'm sure that if Obama pulled American troops out, Brown would have to follow suite. However whether that be for the good of the Iraqi people themselves I'm not so sure, and I'd take another punt and say that Obama will leave troops deployed in Afghan for the forseable too.

Good on him, he may do the World of good by the American people, they'll benefit from it for sure and I hope the economy does ...Eventually. But foreign policy i doubt will change all that much TBH.

He has got a monumentous task ahead of him, and the Yanks probably wont truly reep the rewards he has done/will do, come the next President.

by **Judge** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:26 am

welcome back bam

by **Number 9** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:32 am

Fowler_E7 wrote:
Number 9 wrote:On a serious note though.
Obama has signed papers to close Guantanamo bay!
Now I'm not saying all the men their are guilty but I'd say the majority of them are.
What are they gonna do with them all then?Just set them free?

Personally I think they should all be given a trial for whatever crime they were interned for and any ones that are guilty should be punished and the innocent ones should be compensated for their ordeal!

none of them have been charged with anything even though they been locked up for years now, its a disgrace and i hope they all make a fortune in compensation

Yes mate thats called internment!Its a drastic action taken in desperate times.Its not as if theres thousands of random men just taken off the streets for the religion they practiced.They were closely monitered by intelligence services and taken off the streets because they were seen as a massive threat to the US/UK!
Now Im not saying ALL are guilty.But I dont think they should all just be set free knowing that a huge percentage have links with terrorist organisations and are probably a hell of a lot more angry at the western world now as a result of their treatment.I dare say they will be queueing up to strap a rucksack to them and blow some feckers up if they just get set free.
As I said the should be tried and the guilty dealt with,the innocent compensated accordingly.

Or maybe im wrong and none of them ever done anything and Big bad America just locked up loads of innocent men for nothing!

Im just wondering what Obama is going to do,if it was so wrong and they have been so persecuted for nothing and are all really lovely guys...perhaps he'll give them all an American Visa?

by **Judge** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:46 am

Fowler they come under the terrorism act

criteria is different for those people. i understand what you say and probably some are innocent, but others have been caught with or had dealings with known terror cells. In other words they were actually seen to be doing wrong, and most probably been video'd or had their phone tapped and recorded.

So, tbh, they deserve everything they got.

i think you feel different if they got free and then they decided to go on the rampage, and as a result your family was killed by some numpty who, as barry puts it, strap a rucksack to there backs and blow folk up

think hard fowler. next time it could be you

by **andy_g** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:46 am

good riddance to guantanamo, one of the biggest abuses of human rights and power in the history of the western world. the fact that the vast majority of the prisoners are there without charge, and many have been there for years, proves that there is no strong case against them. the majority of prisoners there are 'suspects' - there have been no wire taps or other forms of surveillance against these people.

america had to invent its own category of offense to allow it to encarcerate people there and uncharged prisoners suffer a regular programme of mental and physical torture that contravenes the geneva convention, guidelines from the commission of human rights and just about every other globally accepted law that governs how people should be treated.

obama is now looking to other countries around the world to take the prisoners in normal prisons until a solution can be found for what to do with them. its not easy though, there are hundreds of men who can probably never be charged as there is nothing but the most circumstantial evidence against them. admittedly, there may be a few genuine terrorists amongst them - but i'd bet that the fact of guantanamo's existence has created a hell of a lot more young men prepared to maim and kill than it ever detained.

by **Judge** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:49 am

andy

you say none of these people have been wire tapped etc? how do you know that?. secondly, you go on to say that theyve been tortured etc, how do you know that?

apart from that - good post

by **andy_g** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:52 am

judge, there is so much documentation on the goings on around guantanamo that its impossible not to know about it. propoganda is one thing, but when sources include amnesty international, human rights watch, the personal testimonies of detainees etc etc then you have to begin to take notice. even if 75% of it was fabricated there is still an overwhelming amount of evidence that things that happened at guantanamo and the reasons that people were detained there are an abomination.

by **dawson99** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:55 am

andy_g wrote:judge, there is so much documentation on the goings on around guantanamo that its impossible not to know about it. propoganda is one thing, but when sources include amnesty international, human rights watch, the personal testimonies of detainees etc etc then you have to begin to take notice. even if 75% of it was fabricated there is still an overwhelming amount of evidence that things that happened at guantanamo and the reasons that people were detained there are an abomination.

I thought most of the prisoners in Guatonomo were baddies? But now what do we do with the terrorists? More things swept under the carpet?

by **Ciggy** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:56 am

Some of them in guantanamo are from England, when they are released they should not be sent back to the UK they will want revenge send them back to Afghanistan where they were origianlly detained.

They wernt there visiting relatives thats for sure.

by **Judge** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:13 am

andy_g wrote:judge, there is so much documentation on the goings on around guantanamo that its impossible not to know about it. propoganda is one thing, but when sources include amnesty international, human rights watch, the personal testimonies of detainees etc etc then you have to begin to take notice. even if 75% of it was fabricated there is still an overwhelming amount of evidence that things that happened at guantanamo and the reasons that people were detained there are an abomination.

i am a firm believer in justice

however, with this its like walking on egg shells.

but the only way to deal with it is with a firm draconian hand, imo.
I do not blame America for defending its borders from any form of aggression, and i believe their stance is a correct one. However, there will always be innocent folk detained, and that is not right. We have innocent folk in our jails. Probably been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Dunno how we can rectify that one.

However, all of these hard core terrorists only understand one form of justice and thats violence.

they appear normal and just, but they are not. They are trained to appear that way and fool us all (the arabs have a word for it - Tak Firi).

9/11 should never be allowed to happen again, or the attacks in London. 4 of those who did london lived only 5 minutes drive from my house at the time, and one of them was a teacher of children.
We should be on our guard all the time. That is how it is now. That doesnt mean we cant continue in our normal daily life, but we should be careful.

Heres a small story - you may find funny or you may find serious.

I was coming back from Tunisia with a plane full of holidaymakers and 5 foreign individuals. These foreigners started to check their handluggage regularly and spent many visits to the toilets. sometimes by themselves and sometimes on there own. They kept looking at their watches. It looked very suspicious
So i said to my missus. i aint happy with thier behaviour at all
so i went to the stewards and told themn of these peoples behaviour and said could they monitor them as i didnt want to find myself flying into some building. As it turned out when we finally landed these folk all had small knives in their baggage. Which they claimed were souvenirs.
our flight went without incident and we were all safe, but you can understand the fear generated !!

by **andy_g** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:13 am

Ciggy wrote:Some of them in guantanamo are from England, when they are released they should not be sent back to the UK they will want revenge send them back to Afghanistan where they were origianlly detained.

They wernt there visiting relatives thats for sure.

are you talking about the 'tipton three'? they were released in 2004. their stories are here and here

of course, it could all be a complete fabrication and they were really al quaeda operatives - but its food for thought nonetheless...

by **andy_g** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:16 am

Judge wrote:I was coming back from Tunisia with a plane full of holidaymakers and 5 foreign individuals. These foreigners started to check their handluggage regularly and spent many visits to the toilets. sometimes by themselves and sometimes on there own. They kept looking at their watches. It looked very suspicious
So i said to my missus. i aint happy with thier behaviour at all
so i went to the stewards and told themn of these peoples behaviour and said could they monitor them as i didnt want to find myself flying into some building. As it turned out when we finally landed these folk all had small knives in their baggage. Which they claimed were souvenirs.
our flight went without incident and we were all safe, but you can understand the fear generated !!

hmmm...

that reminds me of a recent incident on an american internal flight where a large family of muslims was on the plane. apparently passengers nearby overheard one of them saying 'oh, look we're right next to the engines'. they were reported to the crew, the flight was abandoned and the whole family arrested.

better safe than sorry, eh?

by **Ciggy** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:17 am

andy_g wrote:are you talking about the 'tipton three'? they were released in 2004. their stories are here and here

of course, it could all be a complete fabrication and they were really al quaeda operatives - but its food for thought nonetheless...

No theres quite a few from England still in there.

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