Liverpool FC Forum

by **metalhead** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:49 am

bigmick wrote:Kuyt-6 I didn't think he was as bad as some are making out. I wonder sometimes what people expect of him, you know what you're going to get. He rns around a lot, gets in there etc etc. He failed with one through ball to Torres which had a big margin for error, and induced a wry smile when he fell over Riera but all in all it was plain old Dirky Boy. Not a striker though in a million billion years, please don't play him there. Even in an emergency. Even if it's a big one. Ever.

I still think you are being very generous

What I expect from him is the same performance he put against the Mancs at anfield and the other performances he put against other teams in the start of the season.

by **bigmick** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:53 am

metalhead wrote:
bigmick wrote:Kuyt-6 I didn't think he was as bad as some are making out. I wonder sometimes what people expect of him, you know what you're going to get. He rns around a lot, gets in there etc etc. He failed with one through ball to Torres which had a big margin for error, and induced a wry smile when he fell over Riera but all in all it was plain old Dirky Boy. Not a striker though in a million billion years, please don't play him there. Even in an emergency. Even if it's a big one. Ever.

I still think you are being very generous

What I expect from him is the same performance he put against the Mancs at anfield and the other performances he put against other teams in the start of the season.

I think his goals though made a huge difference to the perception of how Dirk was playing at the time. I bet you if you pulled the videos out of those games, he actually was playing very similar in that period to how he is playing now. Because he scored a few goals though, it changes the whole outlook.

This is particularly the case when he scored such important goals as well. he'll have miscontrolled it though just as many times, his passing won't have been any better and he won't have been quicker. If you want any of those things, you need a different player.

by **metalhead** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:57 am

I don't think he was playing similarly as he was at the start of the season, at first he looked good, not exceptional, getting into good positions, closing down defenders pretty well, helping out the attack ( against Everton at Goodison for example), but right now he is back to his usual self of last season.

by **Fowler_E7** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:39 pm

bigmick wrote:
metalhead wrote:
bigmick wrote:Kuyt-6 I didn't think he was as bad as some are making out. I wonder sometimes what people expect of him, you know what you're going to get. He rns around a lot, gets in there etc etc. He failed with one through ball to Torres which had a big margin for error, and induced a wry smile when he fell over Riera but all in all it was plain old Dirky Boy. Not a striker though in a million billion years, please don't play him there. Even in an emergency. Even if it's a big one. Ever.

I still think you are being very generous

What I expect from him is the same performance he put against the Mancs at anfield and the other performances he put against other teams in the start of the season.

I think his goals though made a huge difference to the perception of how Dirk was playing at the time. I bet you if you pulled the videos out of those games, he actually was playing very similar in that period to how he is playing now. Because he scored a few goals though, it changes the whole outlook.

This is particularly the case when he scored such important goals as well. he'll have miscontrolled it though just as many times, his passing won't have been any better and he won't have been quicker. If you want any of those things, you need a different player.

Agreed, his goals compensated for his other wise similar performances. He was high on confidence at the time so his shooting boots were on and he got himself in goalscoring positions, however he still had the same lack of basic skills required to play the role on the right. Now that his goals have dried he is offering nothing and the WHOLE team is suffering beacuse of it.

by **Owzat** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:59 pm

Kuyt also weighed in with more assists than people give him credit for, it wasn't just his goalscoring. Just think who set up Babel for the winner against the mancs among other contributions that seem to be conveniently ignored

by **stmichael** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:45 pm

banana wrote:Hyypia 5 -too slow and uncomfortable

you wanted rid of the guy five years ago :laugh:

by **bigmick** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:38 pm

Owzat wrote:Kuyt also weighed in with more assists than people give him credit for, it wasn't just his goalscoring. Just think who set up Babel for the winner against the mancs among other contributions that seem to be conveniently ignored

That for me was a classic example of why the word "assist" and the stat is very misleading. As I remember, the crucial part in the goal was played by Masherano who robbed Giggs as he was trying to shield it out. THAT was the assist, right there. THAT was the contribution which caused the goal.

From there the ball broke to Kuyt, and a confident striker might have had a shot himself. Dirk kind of had that "Rabbit in the headlights" look about him before squaring it to Babel (and again I'm going from memory here but I think it was ever so slightly straight at or behind him). From there, babel had the not so simple task of avoiding the goalkeeper and a couple of defenders who were on the goal line or thereabouts.

This he managed by cunningly screwing the ball straight into the turf which caused it to bounce over everyone into the roof of the net.

I mention it not to degenerate Kuyt, but because I don't like the "assist" stat, it's nonsense. I asked after Gerrards goal against Everton whether Riera would get an assist. He squared it to Gerrard forty five yards from goal. Curiously I think he should recive the credit for a perceptive pass, but is it an assist?

by **SupitsJonF** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:40 pm

Why are we using carra over Arbeloa? He was playing well, and Carra is a much better CB then RB.

by **Kash_Mountain** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:14 pm

Greavesie wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:Just makes you wonder without stevie how ordinary will we be ? He's the heartbeat of this team and the reason why we are up there , nothing else . He's a class player and no amount of money can buy another player like , he's the best in his role in the world atm .

atm? all the time mate, he's priceless

I just wish all the other players would buck up and become the heartbeat (not just Stevie G).

The lads (barr Gerrard, Cara and Torres) need to take stock and take a real good look at themselves.

They should all ask themselves:
1: How badly do I want to win the title (and if they want it badly enough) then...;
2: What actions / changes can I take to acheive this;
3: How long will it take for me to implement the required actions / changes (hopefully not that long and therefore- Implement action / changes immediately);

4: If it seems that it may take long, then What help do I need to implement those actions / changes quickly (get the desired help).

I could go on but I'll leave it at that.

by **GYBS** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:31 pm

bigmick wrote:
Owzat wrote:Kuyt also weighed in with more assists than people give him credit for, it wasn't just his goalscoring. Just think who set up Babel for the winner against the mancs among other contributions that seem to be conveniently ignored

That for me was a classic example of why the word "assist" and the stat is very misleading. As I remember, the crucial part in the goal was played by Masherano who robbed Giggs as he was trying to shield it out. THAT was the assist, right there. THAT was the contribution which caused the goal.

From there the ball broke to Kuyt, and a confident striker might have had a shot himself. Dirk kind of had that "Rabbit in the headlights" look about him before squaring it to Babel (and again I'm going from memory here but I think it was ever so slightly straight at or behind him). From there, babel had the not so simple task of avoiding the goalkeeper and a couple of defenders who were on the goal line or thereabouts.

This he managed by cunningly screwing the ball straight into the turf which caused it to bounce over everyone into the roof of the net.

I mention it not to degenerate Kuyt, but because I don't like the "assist" stat, it's nonsense. I asked after Gerrards goal against Everton whether Riera would get an assist. He squared it to Gerrard forty five yards from goal. Curiously I think he should recive the credit for a perceptive pass, but is it an assist?

thats a bit harsh with the rabbits in a headlight comment mick - kuyt was in no position to shoot so played a very nice sqaure ball straight into the path of the on coming babel , yeah mash played a big part in the goal but so did kuyt . agree with you on the assits business with stats but kuyt played a pasrt in the goal and was just as important as mashs .

by **Owzat** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:06 pm

Exactly. Mascherano did the hard work, but Kuyt could have blazed over or lost the ball. He kept his nerve, SAW Babel and picked him out. Could have gone wrong on so many levels, besides Kuyt being in the position in the first place to pick up the ball. It wasn't like the example to follow (below). Mascherano deserves credit, he gets it for what he did, but his winning the ball didn't not lead directly to the goal and it sure as hell required a bit more than mick is crediting Kuyt for. Just because Mascherano won the ball didn't mean we would definitely score, not in the corner of the box by the touchline with a difficult angle and bodies to beat.

I do agree on the point about stats that are "assists". Gerrard picked one up against PNE for running unchallenged on the keeper and squaring it to Torres to tap in - I believe a "secondary assist" should go to the player who played the ball through (and maybe Babel for not having a foul called against him while taking out their last defender!) It's a tough one, but to say the player with the second last touch played no part is defeating the whole point of an assist. It's as easy to balls up an assist as it is miss a chance in front of goal, both still require a level of competence (varies according to the situation) I'd give Gerrard 4/10 for his part in Torres' goal against PNE, but Kuyt deserves at least 7/10 for his part in the Babel goal against the mancs and I'd give him 8 or 9 for the difficult angle, his vision to see the player and accuracy of pass to pick him out.

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