Liverpool FC Forum

by **supersub** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:11 pm

supersub wrote:
heimdall wrote:

My opinion

if needs must :sleep

by **lakes10** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:25 pm

supersub wrote:
heimdall wrote:Suggesting Gill is corrupt is slanderous .

prize for the pint glass 3/4 empty

Gill corrupt and why not?

damm did i not win it this time.....i must be getting better

by **supersub** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:32 pm

lakes10 wrote:
supersub wrote:
heimdall wrote:Suggesting Gill is corrupt is slanderous .

prize for the pint glass 3/4 empty

Gill corrupt and why not?

damm did i not win it this time.....i must be getting better

If you were offered a full Pint would you accept a Gill :;):

by **heimdall** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:40 pm

supersub wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
supersub wrote:
heimdall wrote:Suggesting Gill is corrupt is slanderous .

prize for the pint glass 3/4 empty

Gill corrupt and why not?

damm did i not win it this time.....i must be getting better

If you were offered a full Pint would you accept a Gill

What the hell are you talking about, I can only hope for your sake that you're :censored:

or something

by **supersub** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:47 pm

heimdall wrote:
supersub wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
supersub wrote:
heimdall wrote:Suggesting Gill is corrupt is slanderous .

prize for the pint glass 3/4 empty

Gill corrupt and why not?

damm did i not win it this time.....i must be getting better

If you were offered a full Pint would you accept a Gill

What the hell are you talking about, I can only hope for your sake that you're or something

are you serious or just cheesecakery :laugh:

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:04 pm

heimdall wrote:And the winner of the most rose tinted pint half full when it's empty prize is you.

pmsl at this Heimdall :bowdown

by **red187** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:26 pm

You know when I first heard Rafas statement I did think he had over stepped the mark but the more I think about it and the more I read about Rafa's past the more and more I'm convinced this was a deliberate and calculated broadside at United.
This isn't the first time he has taken on what he sees as a biased hierachy. I think it was Guillem Balague that mentioned when Rafa's Valencia team conceeded a penalty against Real Madrid in the 4th minute of stoppage time after only 1 minute had been indicated, Rafa's in his press conference afterwards stated that to beat Real Madrid at home you had to win twice in one game.
If in anyway shape or form this weekend helps to draw more attention from the FA or even further abroad onto the behaviour of red nose, or fingers crossed if it takes some of the pressure and attention of our own underperforming players it will have been well worth it.
Yeah you know what the previous post of mine was rose-tinted but if no one can deny that there is a slight possiblilty that what I wrote could be true, if it is then we do have on our hands one very smart and exceptionally astute manager and I would rather hope against hope than be constantly negative.

by **lakes10** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:35 pm

s@int wrote:
heimdall wrote:And the winner of the most rose tinted pint half full when it's empty prize is you.

pmsl at this Heimdall

edit

by **NANNY RED** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:52 pm

Brilliant article by Tony Barrett in tonight Echo

YOU have to go back more than 20 years to the last time a Liverpool manager verbally took on Alex Ferguson.

On that occasion, back in April 1988, Kenny Dalglish famously held aloft his baby daughter Lauren and informed members of Her Majesty's press that they would get more sense out of her than the United boss, who was ranting and raving about decisions not going his way at Anfield.

The put down worked. Fergie was stopped in his tracks, Dalglish had shown his ability to get the better of an adversary with a single line and, most importantly, Liverpool finished the season as champions.

Rafa Benitez is an altogether different animal to his Anfield predecessor. Without the language skills or the cutting humour honed on decades of banter in British football's dressing rooms, the Spaniard is only marginally more likely to come out with a telling quip than he is to exchange pleasantries with Jose Mourinho.

But, like Dalglish, he is a fighter and if he feels that putting himself on the line is the best thing for his club that is exactly what he will do.

So, although the timing of Benitez's outburst against Ferguson and his empire may well have been surprising, the fact that he did it was not.

This is a manager, don't forget, who a little over a year ago detonated a bomb under Liverpool's boardroom when he used a press conference to reveal just how bad his relationship had become with owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

This time the setting was exactly the same and the shockwaves from the explosion he caused were just as widespread. The only difference was that the grenade he had chucked landed at Old Trafford, not Anfield.

In the immediate aftermath even seasoned Liverpool observers struggled with what to make of Benitez's sensational eruption.

Was this a manager feeling the pressure? Had he taken Ferguson's bait and put his team and himself at the mercy of United, the reigning champions of England and Europe, let's not forget.

Or was it a moment of inspiration from a street fighter who was prepared to take the battle to Liverpool's great rivals after establishing a position of strength at the top of the Premier League table?

The debate will rage and the final answer will not be known until the season has ended and the final ordering of the league table either makes Benitez look a genius or a fool.

But one thing even his biggest critics have not accused the Liverpool boss of being is wrong. For decades some of English football's leading figures have tip-toed around the elephant in the room that is Fergie's bullying of officialdom.

Finally, someone has had the bottle to call it for what it is and the catalogue of facts that Benitez produced in an attempt to prove his point could have been a whole lot longer had it not dated back only to incidents over the last 12 months.

Benitez has never been afraid to take on the established order and the best example of his refusal to bow down to perceived sacred cows came during his last season in charge of Valencia.

After seeing his team concede a 93rd minute equaliser from the penalty spot against Real Madrid after the fourth official had indicated just a single minute of stoppage time, he launched into a tirade aimed at highlighting the degree of power Spain's regal team held over the rest of La Liga.

"For some people we are too strong a rival and it would obviously be wrong for us to win the league," he said.

"I saw the fourth official's board clearly. Without the extra minutes they would not have blown for a penalty."

"In any 100 other matches, they wouldn't have awarded that penalty. At the Bernabeu, you have to win twice just to get half a result."

Benitez is no novice when it comes to mind games and Kevin Keegan is clearly not the reference point that certain people would have us believe that he is.

For, whereas Keegan blew up in an emotional, spur of the moment reaction, Benitez's outburst was calculated, detailed, measured and had been prepared for some time before the outburst – hence the page full of notes he pulled from his pocket at the outset.

Furthermore, Keegan's eruption came as it became increasingly apparent that his Newcastle team was cracking under the pressure and was about to succumb to United.

Benitez's came with his team on top of the league and at a time when it was finally beginning to be seen as genuine title challengers. It was as if the Reds boss had been emboldened by Liverpool's form and decided to strike while the iron was hot.

There is no doubt, though, that Benitez has reacted to Ferguson's jibes and that is what the Glaswegian is looking for every time he declares psychological warfare.

Like the pub bully who keeps poking you in the chest looking for a reaction, the best answer is usually to refuse to give him what he wants and instead to turn the other cheek.

But sometimes you have to stand up to such antagonism, fight fire with fire, and put the aggressor in his place or face a lifetime of subjugation.

This is the path Benitez has chosen and it should be remembered that the last time he went to the mattresses after taking on a seemingly unbreakable opponent it was the softly spoken Spaniard who inflicted most damage on his adversary.

On that occasion it was Mourinho himself, another apparent master of the dark arts, who yielded as the infinitely superior Chelsea side he had put together with Roman Abramovich's millions was twice dumped out of the Champions League at the semi-final stage by Benitez's Liverpool.

It was only when the special one was removed from the equation that Chelsea were able to find their way past Liverpool in Europe's biggest and most prestigious cup competition.

Benitez is no novice. He knew what he was doing when he launched into a tirade against Ferguson.

The only thing that has surprised him is just how big an impact it has made, with the Reds boss of the belief that the seismic shock it caused stems from the fact that most people in football never imagined that someone would dare put their head above the parapet and speak the truth.

Liverpool have always been the kind of club that does its talking on the pitch. But these are very different media-driven times in which advantages are sought and often gained by using television and newspapers to unsettle and unnerve opponents.

Benitez remains adamant that his verbal attack on a rival manager does not mark any departure from the much fabled Liverpool way, though. To the Spaniard, the Liverpool way is to fight, and that is exactly what he did at Friday's press conference.

The unimpressive draw with Stoke did not help his cause as it gave his critics an instant stick with which to beat him.
But Benitez knows this is a long fight and winners and losers will not be determined in the space of a single weekend.

This battle will go all the way to May and it is likely to become increasingly dirty should Liverpool and United continue to go toe to toe at the top of the Premier League.

Anyone who knows the history and rivalry of the north west's, and perhaps the world's, biggest clubs, knows full well that no quarter will be asked and none will be given, particularly not with United one league title win away from equalling Liverpool's record of 18.

This is a massive season for Benitez but it is also huge for Ferguson because he knows that if he is to fulfil his ambition of knocking Liverpool off their "f***ing perch" this is the best chance he is ever likely to get.

Title success for Liverpool would leave the United boss needing three more of his own for his life's work to be complete and having reached pensionable age two years ago he knows the sands of time are against him.

Like Dalglish, Benitez has decided to take Ferguson on. Now he must hope that like it was for his illustrious predecessor it is the precursor to championship glory in May.

by **Sabre** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:42 pm

Good article that.

I've been reading before and after the match commenting that the words of Rafa would prove to be good after the last games.

I don't think it was a short-term move thinking in the next games, but more putting pressure on some people's decissions from here to the end of the season.

I think he stated facts and truths, and those had to be said regardless the result against Stoke.

I also can't link the draw and Rafa's words, since it's not exactly the first time around we struggle against a very defensive team.

by **heimdall** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:40 pm

Sabre wrote:Good article that.

I've been reading before and after the match commenting that the words of Rafa would prove to be good after the last games.

I don't think it was a short-term move thinking in the next games, but more putting pressure on some people's decissions from here to the end of the season.

I think he stated facts and truths, and those had to be said regardless the result against Stoke.

I also can't link the draw and Rafa's words, since it's not exactly the first time around we struggle against a very defensive team.

The initial press conference was ok'ish although it does look to have back fired initially but coming out today and suggesting that Gill is corrupt is really bad and is in no way a clever move from Rafa. If what he says is true and Man Utd really do control the FA then how much more difficult are they going to make things for us now or how about Gill turning around and suing Rafa for defamation of character, I'm sure that wouldn't distract the team at all. Yet again this is an ego machismo thing from Rafa to the detriment of the team, it's bloody embarassing and Man Utd ans must be laughing their asses off.

by **Sabre** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:52 pm

If what he says is true and Man Utd really do control the FA then how much more difficult are they going to make things for us

You Norwegians, so civilised and trustworthy. You know nothing about corruption and corrupt people.

They hate to have the focus on them, the media looking at them, so they'll handle with care every decission, even if they wish to do what they've been doing so far. They'll try to prove Rafa wrong by taking decissions that at the end benefit us.

Rafa's comments are not different to the ones he'd make in Spain about the favours to Real Madrid or Barcelona, and under a corrupt system, the only viable option is to say the facts, and put the spotlight on the ones taking decissions.

They'll think twice now before giving extra rests or certain refs to Manchester. If they continue this way, clubs will end up demanding the right to ban refs, as in Rafa's country.

The other approach is Wengers'. Against corruption stick your tongue to the :censored:

of the corrupt saying the problems are not deep. It's normal he does that thinking on the next season as he has nothing to fight for this season. Very French. Rafa in the other hand is fighting corruption mainly until the end of season.

My mad southern view, red-rosed and all that anyway Heimdall

by **Kharhaz** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:42 am

This battle will go all the way to May and it is likely to become increasingly dirty should Liverpool and United continue to go toe to toe at the top of the Premier League.

I dont think it will. What rafa has said is what has been getting under our skin for years. With what rafa has said, hopefully he has set the rest of the season to be a pure football affair, no influence with the refs, let the game take its natural flow. Rafas timing for me is perfect. Should he have waited until later in the season to say what he did? when the influence has already taken effect and united have won games they shouldnt have due to influence? or should it be in january when what he has said has registered with everyone and therefore united cannot influence the officials in fear of proving rafa right?

Yes we drew at stoke, yes united hammered chelsea, does this make rafa look daft? no, of course not. What rafas comments have done is raised everyones (including the FA's) eye to the rest of the season. If united get "lucky" decisions from now on, rafas comments will be given as not only facts but a reference point and therefore united are less likely to get as many "lucky" breaks.

by **sgs** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:09 am

heimdall wrote:
red187 wrote:So on reflection, I believe Rafas "rant" to be even more inspired than I first thought.
Before I get shot down let me explain, if we are all honest with overselves we all thought that this Stoke game was going to be a very difficult game.
Stoke are very hard to beat at the Britannia and with the Rory Delap factor they can cause any team major problems.
Now I know myself deep down I felt we were in for a tight match but my bravado wouldn't allow me to say out loud any disparaging thoughts about Saturdays match.
So if I thought that there was a possible slip up in the offing, then Rafa did so also and if we take into consideration that our other main rivals were playing at a time when Chelsea are weaker than they have been for a while, Rafa took steps to protect our teams frail mentality and give us supportors something to think about
Rafas comments and the press coverage they have recieved have completed deflected the fact that our players did bottle the match, most of the English press have concentrated on how Rafas comments have back fired on him rather than the poor performance of our players, the comments have also stopped the media making more of the Mancs win over Chelsea.
If Rafa hadn't made his comments then the back pages would have been full of how United had taken charge in the title race, instead they were still focused on the further comments Rafa had made after the game and again this morning.
He has completed stolen Uniteds thunder taken away the upperhand they would have gained on our players, don't forget Rafas comments won't have effected our players as he had prepared them in advance making sure that they were all informed of why he was making this statement.
Now I may be completely wrong but if i'm not then what Rafa did was done with foresight and has worked perfectly

And the winner of the most rose tinted pint half full when it's empty prize is you.

The reason no other manager has launched this kind of attack is because it doesn't work, nothing will change and instead it makes the players even more nervous.

Suggesting Gill is corrupt is slanderous and could get Rafa into a lot of sh1t, I;m talking court case FA penalties etc etc. I mean if it is true than Man Utd control the FA isn't he playing right into their hands.

My opinion is that Rafa isn't getting the huge payrise he thought he was and has spat his dummy out and is making as much noise as possible to try and scare Hicks and Gillet into paying him off if for no other reason than to shut him up.

If the suggestion about Gill is slanderous, I wonder why SAF was never charged considering he made the same allegation against David Dein...

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:52 am

Graham Poll takes Man Utd boss Alex Ferguson's side in refereeing row
By Administrator on Jan 13, 09 08:05 AM in Journalists
FORMER Premier League referee Graham Poll believes Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez was wrong to claim his Manchester United counterpart Sir Alex Ferguson gets under the skin of match officials.

Benitez argued that Ferguson's criticism of referees was "killing" them, and claimed the FA have not acted strongly enough.

But Poll claimed last night: "What I would say about refereeing at Old Trafford is it's the place to go and referee in the Premier League - because it's the biggest one, so that's where referees aspire to.

"The first time you go there, of course you're going to be nervous; of course you're going to be tentative and you're well aware of reputations.

"But once you're an experienced referee it doesn't make any difference. You go out and referee completely impartially to the best of your ability.

"It's a slight on the top referees to say they are intimidated by Ferguson, because I don't think they are."

Poll also dismissed suggestions Sir Alex exerts any more pressure on referees that other managers at games. He said: "He doesn't do any more. What he does, he does better. That I think is the key."

Pundit Poll described Benitez's attitude to referees as "almost ambivalent" and claimed referees have "no contact" with the Liverpool manager at matches, claiming Ferguson is more personable.

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