Liverpool FC Forum

s@int wrote:

milou wrote:World class: Reina, Mascherano, Gerrard, Torres, Alonso
Top class: Carragher, Reira, Hyypia, Skrtel, Agger
Good player: Arbeloa, Keane
Decent squad player: Aurelio, Kuyt, Lucas, Insua, Pennant, Benayoun, Ngog
Would prefer to see sold: Voronin, Degan, Dossena

Just a side-note that CONTEXT is important when u rate someone.. And the above are obviously based on Liverpool.

Many people think (me included) that Gerrard is world class and RIGHTLY so - but only in the context of Liverpool. If you rate him (OBJECTIVELY) as an England player, I wonder what rating he would get. And Reina can't even get a game for Spain.

Same player, different team = different performance, different rating.

I think its more Englands problems rather than Gerrards that they don't get the same level of performance from him.

Reina while not being first choice for Spain...... they also have another exceptionally good keeper, I would think is still one of the top 3 or 4 in the world (depends what you call world class I suppose ) Alonso for example is not first choice for his country and one would hardly call the player who's keeping /kept him out of the Spanish first team World class. International football is a little different I suppose.

I think most peoples views have been very good with little really to argue about apart from the more controversial category of who we should sell.

Emerald Red wrote:

again... iv only read whats infront of me and from what i have seen... that -while not being acceptable to many- isnt anywhere near the worst thats been posted in these boards before... and we both know that very well.. and many have posted much worse and it only takes a look in any thread of ur chosing to realize that... no ban, not even a card in most cases !

ur fellow mod is an absolute joke when it comes to provoking posters and coming up with wise little remarks... he obviously started the whole thing and then persisted with the little digs that ultimately led to stu's ban...

now again, im not sure what happened besides what i see in this thread but all im saying is that stu isnt the first and certainly wont be the last to respond to immature provocative remarks from the likes of Leon and Emerald Red...

someone needs to have a little talk with Leon in my opinion and god forbid it be one of us mere posters...because when u have one mod telling everyone to stick to talking footie in football threads and waving cards and bans at anyone who doesnt oblige, and you have another mod talking nonsense and having little unprovoked digs at select posters.... well sorry but something was bound to go wrong sooner or later...

Immature provocative remarks? Where was the provocative remarks that warranted his jib at myself, that ultimately got himself banned? Pray tell. I obviously got under his skin and he couldn't hack me, so he resorted personal insults. Anger management for that one, I tell ye.

Leonmc0708 wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:

s@int wrote:

Leonmc0708 wrote:

s@int wrote:We seem at the moment to have a few disagreements going in various threads about just how good some of our players are, and whether player "a" contributes more than player "b" etc etc and even whether player "c" should even be at our club at all.

I thought we could try and explain our reasons why we think the way we do about the different players, and which category we see them as fitting best into.

World class (Would get on most teams in the world)

Reina, Mascherano, Gerrard, Torres.

Top class (Would get in most teams squads )

Carragher, Alonso, Hyypia (was but maybe not now)

Good player (good enough for a title winning team)

Skrtel, Agger, Riera, Arbeloa(?) Keane(?) Aurelio(?)

Decent squad player 

Kuyt, Lucas, Insua, Cavelieri

Would prefer to see sold

Voronin, Pennant, Benayoun, Degan, Dossena, Ngog


No doubt I have missed someone out and offended people by not putting their favourite players in the "right" category. This is my view of the players and even then I have questions about quite a few.

To explain a couple of my more controversial decisions.

I put Masch as world class and Alonso as "only" top class because I think there are quite a few better players than Alonso in his role, and I don't believe there is a better player than Masch at what he does. Like it or lump it thats my view.

Arbeloa , Keane and Aurelio, I was torn between them being squad players and good players but decided to be happy clappy for once and put them in possibly a higher category than maybe they deserve.

Benayoun, is no doubt good enough to be a decent squad player alongside Kuyt etc etc, I think he tends to narrow the pitch too much when he plays and I think we could get better for similar money to what we would get for him.

You are Stu the Red and I claim my five pounds.

Get a clue

Stu would NEVER say Masch is World class, possibly not even Reina(?)

Just because I feel like I'm going to break them up even further into more groups.

The Elite: (Top five players in the world)

Steven Gerrard: Absoloutely unbelievable player. Wouldn't swap him for anyone and don't believe any other player is capable of his performances being played completely out of position. Absoloute monster of a player and we'll be lucky to see another one who is nearly as good in all our years as Liverpool fans.

Fernando Torres: Quite simply unplayable at his best. Fast, strong, skillfull, lethal finisher, great in the air, unbelievable movement, wonderfull touch, can shoot from distance. Not as important as Gerrard, but easily in the top five players in the world for me.

World class players: (in and around the top 6-20 players in the world)

None

Top class players: (Players who'd get into pretty much every side).

None (Would have had Sami Hyypia in here a few years ago)

Excellent players: (good enough to win a league with, have some excellent attributes but theres alot around that are as good)

Alonso: Again, excellent use of the ball, reads the game well, keeps possession well and links up well with other good players.

Reira: Excellent use of the ball, intelligent and links up well with others, provides superb balance.

Keane: Has yet to produce in a red shirt but through no real fault of his own. Has superb vision, his movement is world class and his link up play is exceptional. Technically he's good aswell. Just needs to settle and get to the level of confidence needed to play consistently well for this club, in terms of ability there are no worries.

Good players: (Usually consistent or decent and played in the right system, next to the right players, can have a positive effect)

Hyypia: Still think he's our best centre half for me. Not as good as he used to be but still shows signs of class. Good on the ball, uses it well and still dominant in the air. Reads the game superbly. Obviously lacks alot of mobility these days.

Carragher: Could probably push him up a level due to what he gives Liverpool and the fact he's a leader but I don't believe in overating your own. Solid defensively, has his faults but doesn't everyone.

Skyrtel: Solid without being spectacular.

Agger: Again solid without being spectacular. Excellent and carrying the ball out from the back. Would be nice is his passing ability was upto the same standard.

Mascherano: Good in the tackle but a poor passer. Excellent at reading the game aswell and where to press the ball.

Decent squad player: (not really first teamers but you can get away with the odd one)

Insua, Aurelio, Bennayoun, Pennant, Arbeloa

Absoloute rubbish that needs to go:

Kuyt, Voronin, Ngog, Babel, Lucas, Degen, Dossena, Cavalieri

--------------------------------------------------------------

We've got a decent squad, we just need a couple of additions but they have to all be improvements on what we have. For me this team has potentially a great mix of the right players if we can find the type of players and obviously they have to be of the required standard to suppliment the ones we already have.

The player rater has spoken so I am going to lock this thread in a minutes as this is the FINAL word on the matter.

aCe' wrote:

Emerald Red wrote:

again... iv only read whats infront of me and from what i have seen... that -while not being acceptable to many- isnt anywhere near the worst thats been posted in these boards before... and we both know that very well.. and many have posted much worse and it only takes a look in any thread of ur chosing to realize that... no ban, not even a card in most cases !

ur fellow mod is an absolute joke when it comes to provoking posters and coming up with wise little remarks... he obviously started the whole thing and then persisted with the little digs that ultimately led to stu's ban...

now again, im not sure what happened besides what i see in this thread but all im saying is that stu isnt the first and certainly wont be the last to respond to immature provocative remarks from the likes of Leon and Emerald Red...

someone needs to have a little talk with Leon in my opinion and god forbid it be one of us mere posters...because when u have one mod telling everyone to stick to talking footie in football threads and waving cards and bans at anyone who doesnt oblige, and you have another mod talking nonsense and having little unprovoked digs at select posters.... well sorry but something was bound to go wrong sooner or later...

Immature provocative remarks? Where was the provocative remarks that warranted his jib at myself, that ultimately got himself banned? Pray tell. I obviously got under his skin and he couldn't hack me, so he resorted personal insults. Anger management for that one, I tell ye.

wasnt talking about you was talking about Leon... but then again u'v done ur fair share of those havent you ?!

lets just leave it at that...you all got what you wanted i guess...

Emerald Red wrote:Deserved his ban and should never be let back on here.

Hear Hear does nothing but abuse 90% of members of this forum and has done so for years, hes been banned about 10 times. And still gets let back on here 

aCe' wrote:

Leonmc0708 wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:

s@int wrote:

Leonmc0708 wrote:

s@int wrote:We seem at the moment to have a few disagreements going in various threads about just how good some of our players are, and whether player "a" contributes more than player "b" etc etc and even whether player "c" should even be at our club at all.

I thought we could try and explain our reasons why we think the way we do about the different players, and which category we see them as fitting best into.

World class (Would get on most teams in the world)

Reina, Mascherano, Gerrard, Torres.

Top class (Would get in most teams squads )

Carragher, Alonso, Hyypia (was but maybe not now)

Good player (good enough for a title winning team)

Skrtel, Agger, Riera, Arbeloa(?) Keane(?) Aurelio(?)

Decent squad player 

Kuyt, Lucas, Insua, Cavelieri

Would prefer to see sold

Voronin, Pennant, Benayoun, Degan, Dossena, Ngog


No doubt I have missed someone out and offended people by not putting their favourite players in the "right" category. This is my view of the players and even then I have questions about quite a few.

To explain a couple of my more controversial decisions.

I put Masch as world class and Alonso as "only" top class because I think there are quite a few better players than Alonso in his role, and I don't believe there is a better player than Masch at what he does. Like it or lump it thats my view.

Arbeloa , Keane and Aurelio, I was torn between them being squad players and good players but decided to be happy clappy for once and put them in possibly a higher category than maybe they deserve.

Benayoun, is no doubt good enough to be a decent squad player alongside Kuyt etc etc, I think he tends to narrow the pitch too much when he plays and I think we could get better for similar money to what we would get for him.

You are Stu the Red and I claim my five pounds.

Get a clue

Stu would NEVER say Masch is World class, possibly not even Reina(?)

Just because I feel like I'm going to break them up even further into more groups.

The Elite: (Top five players in the world)

Steven Gerrard: Absoloutely unbelievable player. Wouldn't swap him for anyone and don't believe any other player is capable of his performances being played completely out of position. Absoloute monster of a player and we'll be lucky to see another one who is nearly as good in all our years as Liverpool fans.

Fernando Torres: Quite simply unplayable at his best. Fast, strong, skillfull, lethal finisher, great in the air, unbelievable movement, wonderfull touch, can shoot from distance. Not as important as Gerrard, but easily in the top five players in the world for me.

World class players: (in and around the top 6-20 players in the world)

None

Top class players: (Players who'd get into pretty much every side).

None (Would have had Sami Hyypia in here a few years ago)

Excellent players: (good enough to win a league with, have some excellent attributes but theres alot around that are as good)

Alonso: Again, excellent use of the ball, reads the game well, keeps possession well and links up well with other good players.

Reira: Excellent use of the ball, intelligent and links up well with others, provides superb balance.

Keane: Has yet to produce in a red shirt but through no real fault of his own. Has superb vision, his movement is world class and his link up play is exceptional. Technically he's good aswell. Just needs to settle and get to the level of confidence needed to play consistently well for this club, in terms of ability there are no worries.

Good players: (Usually consistent or decent and played in the right system, next to the right players, can have a positive effect)

Hyypia: Still think he's our best centre half for me. Not as good as he used to be but still shows signs of class. Good on the ball, uses it well and still dominant in the air. Reads the game superbly. Obviously lacks alot of mobility these days.

Carragher: Could probably push him up a level due to what he gives Liverpool and the fact he's a leader but I don't believe in overating your own. Solid defensively, has his faults but doesn't everyone.

Skyrtel: Solid without being spectacular.

Agger: Again solid without being spectacular. Excellent and carrying the ball out from the back. Would be nice is his passing ability was upto the same standard.

Mascherano: Good in the tackle but a poor passer. Excellent at reading the game aswell and where to press the ball.

Decent squad player: (not really first teamers but you can get away with the odd one)

Insua, Aurelio, Bennayoun, Pennant, Arbeloa

Absoloute rubbish that needs to go:

Kuyt, Voronin, Ngog, Babel, Lucas, Degen, Dossena, Cavalieri

--------------------------------------------------------------

We've got a decent squad, we just need a couple of additions but they have to all be improvements on what we have. For me this team has potentially a great mix of the right players if we can find the type of players and obviously they have to be of the required standard to suppliment the ones we already have.

The player rater has spoken so I am going to lock this thread in a minutes as this is the FINAL word on the matter.

what about this supersub ?!

Boocity wrote:Looking through this thread I think people are being a bit harsh on Ngog. Give the lad a chance he only came in the summer and its not as if he has had an extended run in the team and played . I for one thought he did good in the second half against PSV.