Liverpool FC Forum

by **Dundalk** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:31 pm

A lot has been said about the system we play and that we are a team that functions like a machine. This is what Rafa wants in his team and because of it, we seem to have a lot of confidence flowing through the team. Being top of the table is giving us a wave of confidence that the players seem to be thriving on. Some teams would wilt under the pressure but we look as though we are enjoying it.

My point is that with the system and machine like defense we have, and now the confidence that we should be were we are, I get the impression that the team are going into games almost knowing that they are not going to be beat and that the players know that we have a lot more individuals that can do something in a match now not just relay on Nando and Gerrard.

In the last few matches we are going out with a spring in our step knowing that we are better then the opposition and showing it in our play.

by **heimdall** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:42 pm

Well as long as we are not having to rely on Keane we'll be ok :eyebrow

by **roberto green** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:50 pm

Yeah it's like the good old days at the moment ive been going into our games so confident that we are going to come out with a positive result,Rafa has always had the work rate and good defence all of which he builds his foundations on but he has now the key quality men around the fort and the moat (shall we say) the fort being our defence and the moat being the holding midfielders(boy am i talking drunken jiberish) that keeps us good enough to attack with real purpose and swagger.

I guess what i'm trying to say is the overall balance is the best out there at the minute of any team and like your thread says "team machine confidence"

by **Number 9** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:54 pm

Its been touched on that we are like Rafas Valencia machine.I cant really answer that because much as I loved football then I never took much notice of what a team was doing in Spain.
There are always the know alls that are able to compare but you ask yourself if they compare us to Valencia or what google says about Valencia and deep down you know the truth!
What I can say with regard to how I FEEL is that I think this team will score more goals,in fact a HELL of a lot more goals than it lets in at present.
Will it be enough....?I dont know!
Will things change since now and May?...Yes
Would ya rather be top by one point than a few behind or 7 behind with 2 games in hand...Silly fuc,king question!

PS PSML at Heimdall!

by **Dundalk** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:55 pm

Sami Hyypia came out recently and said that they are doing the same things in training that they were doing last season, so maybe with the help of the rub of the green in a few of our early league matches, the fact that we are top is helping the team rather than becoming a hindrance

by **roberto green** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:59 pm

We are looking very experienced now because the spine of the team always plays together and has been together for a while now and dare i say it we are now looking champions elect!

(don't shoot me)

by **Sabre** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:12 pm

The winning state of mind that Dundalk somehow describes is something it's real.

Not thanks to the manager, this time, but thanks to the first place we're occupying. FIrst position in the league always gives you an extra fuel, it's like being in the wave's top while surfing

Opposition teams also fear you more, they fear you more, they'll be happy with a draw at home earlier in the game, everything is easier when you're top of the table.

Well Keane didn't seem like a machine today, someone might point out

. I've seen the first half and he's missed a few. Some balls, like the Riera one at the early minutes were too fast and difficult, in others, like the one Alonso sent him from deep, could have done better.

Some fellow red around here said earlier that not playing the other day MIGHT have grown anxiety in him, but I think anxiety is developed by the feeling of not scoring in several games, rather than being rested in a Christmas crowded of games once. I think that was just a bad day in the office of a quality player. Just another opinion anyway.

Babel wasted an opportunity to tell Rafa "I'm a valid option for the right". Unlike Benayoun, he's not taking the opportunities Rafa is giving him.

But yes, when we talk about the team as a whole, I agree what Dundalk describes. I feel like facing any team right now. I just fear the injuries.

by **Dundalk** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:16 pm

Thats the thing Sabre, it has leeked through to some of the fans too.

Before the draw was made for the knockout stages of the Champions League I really wasn't afraid of who we were going to get, they should be afraid of us

Lets face it we are into January and have only tasted defeat twice, once with an understrength team in the cup away to Spurs and the other was a game we should have won easily, again against Spurs

But is this over confidence a good thing?

by **bigmick** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:25 pm

I don't think it's over confidence Dundalk to be honest mate. You've said yourself that we've only lost twice all season (one of which hardly counts to be honest) so it's only natural that we go into games not expecting to lose. Including the Champions League we've probably played 25 matches or something, and although it would be fair to say we've got our share of breaks when it mattered (the penalty at home to Athletico being an obvious example) we've got a really durable look about us right now.

It's probably worth considering too that we are in the middle of a run of relatively easy games. Also, though our "hard to beatness" is a laudible quality, it's whether or not we can win tight games with enough consistency that will ultimatately decide whether we become Champions (in the league) or not. We've won our last three, and my feeling is that in the League we are going to have to win a significant number of matches consecutively in order to prevail.

Can we do it? Course we can (bit like Bob the builder

) but it's obviously a question of whether or not we will. I think you can say at this point that if we were to go to Old Trafford and win, we'd be massive favourites for the title. Fortunatly though, we could probably even suffer a loss there and still be right in the mix. My feeling is it's going to go right down to the wire and be very very tight. If ever we needed the delayed gazelle to kick in, it's this season.

by **JoeTerp** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:34 am

bigmick wrote:If ever we needed the delayed gazelle to kick in, it's this season.

too bad Rafa cooled on the rotating early in the season

by **Owzat** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:34 pm

I think there is a good element of the "machine" and it could also be viewed as bad - goals coming from 'midfield'. It is good so far, we need that to continue or the strikers to score more. It is a delicate balance, in a sense it's good because we're getting goals from midfield but it is also bad in the sense that if it dries up then we could go t1ts up. Against tougher sides I think you need goalscoring potential from midfield as they will make it hard for your striker(s) How many goals have been scored by and conceded to defenders and midfielders against our 'big four' rivals?

Keane - 7 goals
Torres - 6 goals
N'Gog - 1 goal

Gerrard - 13 goals
Kuyt - 7 goals
Alonso - 3 goals
Riera - 3 goals
Babel - 3 goals
Lucas - 1 goal
Benayoun - 1 goal

I appreciate Babel and Kuyt have played up front, this isn't meant to be an exacting statistical analysis but intended as supporting evidence for what I think we know is true. Gerrard has scored as many as Torres and Keane combined. Fair enough he has played more than Torres, but he's played the same number of games as STRIKER Keane and only nine more appearances than STRIKER Torres - so it's 26 appearances for Gerrard compared to 43 for the strikers and while he's played most minutes he is only playing a supporting role

It may purely be coincidence, but when Gerrard hits good scoring form then the team does well. Our best seasons have come when Gerrard scores well and so far this season he has been scoring well

Gerrard Under Rafa

04/05 5th in Premiership : 10 goals in 43 appearances (0.233 goals/app)
05/06 3rd in Premiership : 23 goals in 53 appearances (0.434 goals/app)
06/07 3rd in Premiership : 11 goals in 51 appearances (0.216 goals/app)
07/08 4th in Premiership : 21 goals in 52 appearances (0.404 goals/app)
08/09 Currently top : 13 goals in 26 appearances (0.500 goals/app)

While it looks as if this claim is unfounded because he had a disappointing return in 06/07 and we finished third, we finished with just 68 points and ahead of Arsenal only on GD compared to 82 in 05/06 and 76 in 07/08 ie it was more down to the failings of other teams than anything we did.

Temptation to draw comparisons with Crouch just about resisted

, we do need to score more from midfield and maybe this formation is helping that but also demanding it. The solo striker needs to score goals, but he will also need support from the more attacking midfielders - Gerrard, Kuyt, Riera and when used Babel and Benayoun. I have said a few times that Alonso could do with scoring more and this season he's scored three already - his best in a season for Liverpool is five.

I'd give Alonso and Riera targets of 7-10 goals this season, Babel the same but with hope more than expectation of closer on 15. Kuyt needs to aim at 15-20 which would be a massive achievement given his role, I expect him to fall closer to 12-17 but why aim low? No point setting goals (excuse the pun) for Pennant and Benayoun, I doubt they would meet them or, mainly in Pennant's case, get the chance(s)

As with any machine, we need all the parts to keep working efficiently for the machine to function at it's optimum level. I don't think we've been at optimum, or our rivals, it's mostly a question of which machine will last (reliability), improve it's performance and ultimately deliver

by **JC_81** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:16 pm

Many factors have contributed to our improvement this season:
1) Less rotation
2) The addition of Riera who gives great balance to the side
3) A rejuvenated Alonso, who has been like a new signing
4) The fact that our personnel has not changed that much this season and a lot of the players are used to playing together
5) Belief, which has grown since our early season fightbacks against Boro/Wigan/Man City, and wins against big 4 rivals.

We are playing like a machine now and Benitez seems to be targeting the league as his priority this season - perhaps because it's the first time he's had a squad that he feels can actually win it.

For me the big advantage we have now is that teams are fearing playing us. That wasn't the case last season. The back-to-back demolitions of Newcastle and Bolton will see teams (like perhaps Stoke next week) walk onto the field already beaten. With Torres coming back into the fold at just the right time, I still think we can do it this season.

by **Madmax** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:24 pm

john craig wrote:Many factors have contributed to our improvement this season:
1) Less rotation
2) The addition of Riera who gives great balance to the side
3) A rejuvenated Alonso, who has been like a new signing
4) The fact that our personnel has not changed that much this season and a lot of the players are used to playing together
5) Belief, which has grown since our early season fightbacks against Boro/Wigan/Man City, and wins against big 4 rivals.

We are playing like a machine now and Benitez seems to be targeting the league as his priority this season - perhaps because it's the first time he's had a squad that he feels can actually win it.

For me the big advantage we have now is that teams are fearing playing us. That wasn't the case last season. The back-to-back demolitions of Newcastle and Bolton will see teams (like perhaps Stoke next week) walk onto the field already beaten. With Torres coming back into the fold at just the right time, I still think we can do it this season.

You forgot to add sammy lee's inspiration to the squad.

by **zarababe** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:20 pm

Anno ppl are accused of defending Rafa off the bak of the miracle of Istanbul "go on get the DVD and watch it" type responses, but in that one crucial campaign Rafa instilled belief in Liverpool FC, both as a force to contend with in Europe again and in establishing the belief amongst players like Gerrard and Carra and signings that found they're way here, Reina, Masch, Alonso, Torres that his methods could bring back the title challenging days.. which we are currently in.

Look at what happens when an ispirational leader leaves; Harry at Portsmouth, those he signed wanna leave, so it says a lot about an individual that he inspires and instills belief in players that they wanna play in his team and also become better players under his guidance.

The valencia system is somethign that Rafa has likened the team to this year .. the holding midfielder Gerrard's free-role and the wide men. And it seems that that model is working for us.

I too feel confident when watching the team, there is a steeliness about us, that hasn't been prevalent for some time.

And so belief and systems go hand-in-hand both rely on each other to succeed.

by **Alex G.** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:30 pm

zarababe wrote:Anno ppl are accused of defending Rafa off the bak of the miracle of Istanbul "go on get the DVD and watch it" type responses, but in that one crucial campaign Rafa instilled belief in Liverpool FC, both as a force to contend with in Europe again and in establishing the belief amongst players like Gerrard and Carra and signings that found they're way here, Reina, Masch, Alonso, Torres that his methods could bring back the title challenging days.. which we are currently in.

Look at what happens when an ispirational leader leaves; Harry at Portsmouth, those he signed wanna leave, so it says a lot about an individual that he inspires and instills belief in players that they wanna play in his team and also become better players under his guidance.

The valencia system is somethign that Rafa has likened the team to this year .. the holding midfielder Gerrard's free-role and the wide men. And it seems that that model is working for us.

I too feel confident when watching the team, there is a steeliness about us, that hasn't been prevalent for some time.

And so belief and systems go hand-in-hand both rely on each other to succeed.

Spot on, Zara.

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