Liverpool FC Forum

by **zarababe** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:06 pm

Good result and performance - here we go !

Up Rafa's reds... makes us dream makes us believe!!

by **kazza** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:09 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
kazza wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:Nowhere near as good a CENTRAL MIDFIELDER as Alonso or Gerrard. End of.

I would agree this year but you could not have said the same last year so it is relative. Having said that I think Alonso at his best is better than Mascherano at his best, but Alonso is considered in his prime (age wise) and Mascherano is still developing whether you think he will improve further or not. To be captain of Argentina and at such a young age, I would say he is better than you give him credit. Since returning from the Olympics however (and been made captain of Argentina) he has not been as consistant for us. He was better last year.

Maradonna claims that he will build the national team around Mascherano, so he will get plenty of chances in the coming years to show whether he is overated or not. My guess is he is a good little player.

You're largely talking about form over consistency. Make no mistake, Mascherano's not a bad player, I've never said he was, but he's not as good as the rose tinted brigage would have you believe.

Also age means all. Rooney's about 23, Kuyt's 29ish? I know who the better player is.

I actually heard a lad in the pub the other day saying Kuyt was our Rooney...

In Rooney's case I think he is close to his prime as I think he seems to have the body that might struggle with weight issues. Rooney is world class (as much as I hate to admit it) but a voice in me thinks he will not be the same player when he is 29. He looiks like he wants to be fat.

Kuyte is a great athlete with a great engine, lacking in basic technique but we get the best out of him. He helps us more from a defensive point of view than attacking even though he does it from the front (and this is why he plays every game). A coaches player who will follow instuction with dicipline (as does Rooney) and that is about the only thing they share in common. Two vastly different players.

by **Fo Dne** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:44 pm

zarababe wrote:Good result and performance - here we go !

Up Rafa's reds... makes us dream makes us believe!!

Yay yayayay Clap hands and jump around, yay!

:laugh:

by **zarababe** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:53 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
zarababe wrote:Good result and performance - here we go !

Up Rafa's reds... makes us dream makes us believe!!

Yay yayayay Clap hands and jump around, yay!

yay!! up RAFA's REDs...

put yer woodoo dolls away 'Fo' bet yer feeling right miserable

RAFA BENITEZ... RAFA BENITEZ... RAFA BENITEZ... RAFA RAFA BENITEZ... RAFA BENITEZ... :buttrock

by **bigmick** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:01 pm

kazza wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:Nowhere near as good a CENTRAL MIDFIELDER as Alonso or Gerrard. End of.

I would agree this year but you could not have said the same last year so it is relative. Having said that I think Alonso at his best is better than Mascherano at his best, but Alonso is considered in his prime (age wise) and Mascherano is still developing whether you think he will improve further or not. To be captain of Argentina and at such a young age, I would say he is better than you give him credit. Since returning from the Olympics however (and been made captain of Argentina) he has not been as consistant for us. He was better last year.

Maradonna claims that he will build the national team around Mascherano, so he will get plenty of chances in the coming years to show whether he is overated or not. My guess is he is a good little player.

Incredibly enough I actually agree with pretty much all of this post.

Back to Sabes point about "compatability" I think it's probably worth viewing the debate about Masherano/Gerrard as opposed to Alonso/Gerrard in the context it was spoken of at the time. At the time, people were claiming Alonso was playing just as well as he always had done, his form hadn't dipped one iota

At the time, Alonso was more "compatable" with Carragher than he was with Gerrard as he spent the entire 90 minutes stood within five yards of the centre halves.

The manager was so unimpressed as to Xabi's contribution that he hawked him around europe trying to flog him off. The football managers throughout Europe were so unimpressed with Xabi's contributon, that not one of them was prepared to pay the same fee for his services that Tottenham paid Charlton for Darren Bent. This is the context in whcih the original debate took place, and I think it's probably worth remembering that before the smileys come out :;):

Of course Alonso is now playing much better than he was previously, everybody (even his fan club) accept that. His form is unrecognisable to last season. Equally, Masherano is playing nowhere near as good. So the comparison has changed, and if you were to pick two central midfielders based purely on current form/compatability, it is obviously Alonso and Gerrard.

Simple really. And people accuse me of always wanting to be proven right lol. I was just the bloke who was saying in the middle of the whole debate how firstly the opposition had managed to nullify Alonso (and they were even talking about it on the "soccer" coverage over here the other day

) and secondly, how Xabi could change his game to be more effective in England.

Jeez I was soooo wrong on both counts :cool:

by **taff** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:35 pm

Alonso is playing better this season of that theres no debate but if you recall Bigmick the resaon behind me supporting Alonso was that he needs the team balanced for him to flourish and wide men and attacking fullbacks are the key. Alonso if given space can destroy a team but if he hasnt the players making runs to move the opposition about and increase his passing options then he becomes less effective but Gerrad and Mash seem more effective as they are more old fashioned battlers. I think Riera has made a difference to hime and the fullbacks attacking more than they have before. This is why I thought we should have kept him.

I would personally play SG on the right as well for some games, not all as he is a midfielder above anything else.

by **tubby** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:45 pm

Toffeehater wrote:
bavlondon wrote:They are doing a good job of it too despite it still being 0-0. Villa will do well to hang onto both Agbonlahor and A Young over the next few years. Id love that A Young at Liverpool. He would fit on the right just perfect.

Shame that we did not pay that little extra for him a couple of season backs , we missed out on a quality player just like we did with simao and alves .

Imagine how he would benefit with players like gerrard , alonso and masch in the side rather than sidwell , petrov . According to MON he's worth 30 million now ashley young , where he gets this figures for his players i don't know

Yeah I even think he used the term 'world class' a few weeks back.

He is probably worth at least 13 - 15mil but knowing MON he wouldnt accept anywhere less than 25 - 30Mil.

Speaking of players we let slip didn't we also pass up Roberto Carlos yonks ago? Instead we got Steve Staunton. And I think we also dismissed C Ronaldo too before he moved to Utd. Oh dear.

by **GYBS** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:50 pm

think houllier turned down ronaldo as he thought he was too expensive . I think when villa got young everyone thought they were crazy spending ten mil on someone who hadnt done anything yet but has turned out to be a great deal . The worst mistake must go down to souness who turned down cantona .

by **tubby** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:53 pm

I might be wrong but with Ronaldo was it not Thommo who said he wasn't good enough in the first place?

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:54 pm

bavlondon wrote:I might be wrong but with Ronaldo was it not Thommo who said he wasn't good enough in the first place?

Your sort of right bav , i think he advised houllier not to buy him at the price asked for.

by **tubby** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:58 pm

Yeah I thought he had some hand in it just wasn't sure how much. Anyway we seem to have a decent squad now. If I were to be choosy I would say another striker and another RM/RB. Having said that I really want to see more of N'Gog as well as maybe Darby.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:58 pm

i wanna see more of THIS! :laugh:

by **GYBS** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:02 pm

yeah think darby will see more action over the season . Maybe nemeth once he is fully fit . Think rafa may look to get an experienced striker and a right sided midfielder . Kuyt does a good job in a 5 man midfield but not best suited in a 4 man . It seems rafa is looking at someone from weder bremen and heskey . Both for around a combined ten mil with funds being raised from selling pennant (at last ) and dossena maybe .

by **tubby** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:04 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:i wanna see more of THIS!

Saw that on MOTD last night. Must have been very demoralising for the players.

by **tubby** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:04 pm

GYBS wrote:yeah think darby will see more action over the season . Maybe nemeth once he is fully fit . Think rafa may look to get an experienced striker and a right sided midfielder . Kuyt does a good job in a 5 man midfield but not best suited in a 4 man . It seems rafa is looking at someone from weder bremen and heskey . Both for around a combined ten mil with funds being raised from selling pennant (at last ) and dossena maybe .

Whos he looking at from Bremen mate? Is it that Pander guy?

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