Liverpool FC Forum

by **Owzat** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:38 am

metalhead wrote:I hope Rafa sticks with the SAME system against newcastle.

unfortunately, he will change it.

Doubt he will (EDIT) stick with the same system (or players), playing away less than 48 hours after our Boxing Day game.

Decent performance, good result but the quality of opposition that Bolton put up wasn't great. We got off to a good start, that always helps. Piling on pressure with fecknose how many corners before Riera scored to make that pressure count. I thought Bolton got it all wrong, shocking decision to leave Davies out of the starting XI. Megson showed little guts in that XI, I was surprised they didn't take Cahill off since they'd already lost the game and he could have hurt himself worse.

Still have to watch out for the mancs, that's Sunderland and now Stoke they've looked like being held to a draw against and they've pulled it out of the fire in the last minute and six respectively.

Good to see Keane get a couple of goals, thanks to a defence that let him sit on the last man for the first and that didn't get tight enough on him for the second. Let's wait and see if his form continues before claiming he's 'come good', even Bellamy had a good scoring spell in his only season. I'm not getting carried away, he scored twice against West Brom who are poor and rightly bottom, twice against Bolton who were nothing special, a goal against PSV who are poor and a couple of goals that earned us draws. I'll start a Keane fan club if he can score a handful of goals in the next few games and secure us a run of wins.

Newcastle (a)
Stoke (a)
Bitters (h) - a Monday evening

Wigan (a)
Chelsea (h)
Portsmouth (a)
Man City (h)

After that the Champions League resumes. I think we need 14 points from that lot minimum, probably more if we want to stay top for any length of time. We have to aim at four wins in the next four league games, set ourselves up for the Chelsea game and put proper pressure on our title rivals. All we've done in recent games is be let off the hook, we've put little pressure on the rest and the mancs have come back off their holiday in Japan to find that they weren't put under any additional pressure.

by **Sabre** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:00 pm

3-0 and some very good football yesterday. Sometimes you'll find a team playing against you deep and you'll struggle. But when you move the ball from one side to another quickly and you do things well done, the game seems easier.

If you put it this way, if you are in min 17, you see Hyypia making a 1-2 with Carraguer :laugh:

and then sending a deep quality ball, you know you're playing well. What a play from our two CB!!!!!! I had to review it 5 times.

I see some complains and doubts about how Rafa will change the team. Nothing to say, just :laugh:

by **Fo Dne** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:01 pm

JoeTerp wrote:a note to the anti masch and home crowd. Is it a different proposition when Torres is in the team? I am not talking about the lowest of the lows now, but I could see mach being useful against mid table teams at home if we have torres. In theory it should allow us to get stevie further up the the pitch while continuing to dominate the play in the middle. Maybe it would become more of a viable option if we had a bigger goal scoring threat than Kuyt out wide right.

Absoloutely not!

by **Sabre** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:04 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:a note to the anti masch and home crowd. Is it a different proposition when Torres is in the team? I am not talking about the lowest of the lows now, but I could see mach being useful against mid table teams at home if we have torres. In theory it should allow us to get stevie further up the the pitch while continuing to dominate the play in the middle. Maybe it would become more of a viable option if we had a bigger goal scoring threat than Kuyt out wide right.

Absoloutely not!

He's right IMHO. I'm a bit surprised Mascha isn't used more.

However, when one year ago you were almost alone saying Alonso and Gerrard being a good pairing against the serious mantra of the knowledgeable people who said they were not compatible, you were spot on.

Incompatible? My árse.

by **Fo Dne** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:23 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
bavlondon wrote:How do you pronounce his name?. Is it unn-go or actualln en-gog. I know thats not the spelling but in terms of pronounciation.

N'go.

Mates cousins are PSG fans (from france) and where staying in Liverpool when they played City the other week, they said it was pronounced En-gok.

by **RedBen** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:30 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
bavlondon wrote:How do you pronounce his name?. Is it unn-go or actualln en-gog. I know thats not the spelling but in terms of pronounciation.

N'go.

Mates cousins are PSG fans (from france) and where staying in Liverpool when they played City the other week, they said it was pronounced En-gok.

That's what I said but no one believed me

by **Fo Dne** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:31 pm

Sabre wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:a note to the anti masch and home crowd. Is it a different proposition when Torres is in the team? I am not talking about the lowest of the lows now, but I could see mach being useful against mid table teams at home if we have torres. In theory it should allow us to get stevie further up the the pitch while continuing to dominate the play in the middle. Maybe it would become more of a viable option if we had a bigger goal scoring threat than Kuyt out wide right.

Absoloutely not!

He's right IMHO. I'm a bit surprised Mascha isn't used more.

However, when one year ago you were almost alone saying Alonso and Gerrard being a good pairing against the serious mantra of the knowledgeable people who said they were not compatible, you were spot on.

Incompatible? My árse.

Alonso and Gerrard are far better players than Mascherano will ever be so why should we sacrifice one of those players for him?

Mascherano is rediculously overated by our own fans.

We are by far a better side when Gerrard and Alonso play in a central pairing. You can see by the way they link up how much they like playing with each other and the team looks so much more balanced.

The midfield we played yesterday is probably our best and it shown in terms of some off the football played. Infact, I'd even go as far as to say that was our best team yesterday bar Torres in for the waste of space that is "Dirky boy".

by **RedBen** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:34 pm

Masch is a different kind of player than Alonso and i don't think he's overrated. In his position he is - in my humble opinion - one of the best players in the world. i have never seen a better tackler.

by **Fo Dne** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:39 pm

RedBen wrote:Masch is a different kind of player than Alonso and i don't think he's overrated. In his position he is - in my humble opinion - one of the best players in the world. i have never seen a better tackler.

Steven Gerrard would eat Mascherano alive in a tackle.

Mascherano is good at two things, winning the ball, then giving it back to the opposition. Occassionally his passing is ok and he has a good game, occassionally its awful and he doesn't.

Nowhere near as good a CENTRAL MIDFIELDER as Alonso or Gerrard. End of.

by **Ace Ventura** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:49 pm

I think some of the points Stu is making about Mascherano are true, his passing at times is woeful as is his decision making.
But at the job he does i dont think there is anyone better at this moment in time.
When he plays he needs to keep it simple and leave the long diagonal balls to the likes of Stevie and Alonso.

One thing is for sure, we play far better football when Mascherano is not in the side.

Its an awkward conundrum for Rafa cos we all know what Masher can do and i love watching him charging into tackles.
But there are too many games where we are going to have the majority of posession and in need of Alonso and Gerrards far better footballing ability.
Or we just go 4-5-1 and Keane loses out.
At least we look like we have two decent systems depending on the type of game.

by **JoeTerp** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:33 pm

Sabre wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:a note to the anti masch and home crowd. Is it a different proposition when Torres is in the team? I am not talking about the lowest of the lows now, but I could see mach being useful against mid table teams at home if we have torres. In theory it should allow us to get stevie further up the the pitch while continuing to dominate the play in the middle. Maybe it would become more of a viable option if we had a bigger goal scoring threat than Kuyt out wide right.

Absoloutely not!

He's right IMHO. I'm a bit surprised Mascha isn't used more.

However, when one year ago you were almost alone saying Alonso and Gerrard being a good pairing against the serious mantra of the knowledgeable people who said they were not compatible, you were spot on.

Incompatible? My árse.

can't tell who you are agreeing with. shouldn't use pronouns when quoting two posts. And Stu, would you care to explain further?

I think one of the biggest things hurting masch's chances at holding down a more regular spot once Torres returns is the possible emergence of Keane. If they can form a partnerhsip, and the need to use Gerrard in an advanced role diminishes, the need to Mach in the team goes with it. Masch's best chance is if he tries 451 with torres top and Keane in one of the wide positions with gerrard behind the striker, and it ends up coming off with Keane looking a better scoring threat than Kuyt normally does. Either that, or 4-4-2 with Gerrard on the right if Kuyt continues to stick out like a sore thumb and cost us in our attack set up more than help the team with hard work.

by **kazza** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:39 pm

Fo Dne wrote:Nowhere near as good a CENTRAL MIDFIELDER as Alonso or Gerrard. End of.

I would agree this year but you could not have said the same last year so it is relative. Having said that I think Alonso at his best is better than Mascherano at his best, but Alonso is considered in his prime (age wise) and Mascherano is still developing whether you think he will improve further or not. To be captain of Argentina and at such a young age, I would say he is better than you give him credit. Since returning from the Olympics however (and been made captain of Argentina) he has not been as consistant for us. He was better last year.

Maradonna claims that he will build the national team around Mascherano, so he will get plenty of chances in the coming years to show whether he is overated or not. My guess is he is a good little player.

by **Fo Dne** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:49 pm

JoeTerp wrote:
Sabre wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:a note to the anti masch and home crowd. Is it a different proposition when Torres is in the team? I am not talking about the lowest of the lows now, but I could see mach being useful against mid table teams at home if we have torres. In theory it should allow us to get stevie further up the the pitch while continuing to dominate the play in the middle. Maybe it would become more of a viable option if we had a bigger goal scoring threat than Kuyt out wide right.

Absoloutely not!

He's right IMHO. I'm a bit surprised Mascha isn't used more.

However, when one year ago you were almost alone saying Alonso and Gerrard being a good pairing against the serious mantra of the knowledgeable people who said they were not compatible, you were spot on.

Incompatible? My árse.

can't tell who you are agreeing with. shouldn't use pronouns when quoting two posts. And Stu, would you care to explain further?

I think one of the biggest things hurting masch's chances at holding down a more regular spot once Torres returns is the possible emergence of Keane. If they can form a partnerhsip, and the need to use Gerrard in an advanced role diminishes, the need to Mach in the team goes with it. Masch's best chance is if he tries 451 with torres top and Keane in one of the wide positions with gerrard behind the striker, and it ends up coming off with Keane looking a better scoring threat than Kuyt normally does. Either that, or 4-4-2 with Gerrard on the right if Kuyt continues to stick out like a sore thumb and cost us in our attack set up more than help the team with hard work.

Kuyt should NEVER be used on the right, he's not upto it. Gerrard should NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER be used upfront, off a front man, infront of the midfield or whatever other gay way you want to describe it and the only time he should ever play on the right is if we're stumped for options or we have better central midfielders.

We should also not employ a 4-5-1 in anything like the amount of games we do. With a 4-4-2 we're good enough to to go to Chelsea and play them off the park (if the correct couple of additions are made), as with United and Arsenal but we need to have the right players in that side with the right balance. The thing is though, Benitez is to scared of losing to attempt this against the good sides. He also doesn't seem to trust one of the best players ever to pull on the shirt and one of the top 5 players in the world to play in his best position.

I hate the use of Gerrard upfront, it drives me insane. Get the best out of him and you'll win a hell of a lot more games than you'll lose, Benitez gets about 60% out of him.

by **Fo Dne** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:52 pm

kazza wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:Nowhere near as good a CENTRAL MIDFIELDER as Alonso or Gerrard. End of.

I would agree this year but you could not have said the same last year so it is relative. Having said that I think Alonso at his best is better than Mascherano at his best, but Alonso is considered in his prime (age wise) and Mascherano is still developing whether you think he will improve further or not. To be captain of Argentina and at such a young age, I would say he is better than you give him credit. Since returning from the Olympics however (and been made captain of Argentina) he has not been as consistant for us. He was better last year.

Maradonna claims that he will build the national team around Mascherano, so he will get plenty of chances in the coming years to show whether he is overated or not. My guess is he is a good little player.

You're largely talking about form over consistency. Make no mistake, Mascherano's not a bad player, I've never said he was, but he's not as good as the rose tinted brigage would have you believe.

Also age means :censored:

all. Rooney's about 23, Kuyt's 29ish? I know who the better player is.

I actually heard a lad in the pub the other day saying Kuyt was our Rooney... :laugh:

by **kazza** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:52 pm

Sabre wrote::D

3-0 and some very good football yesterday. Sometimes you'll find a team playing against you deep and you'll struggle. But when you move the ball from one side to another quickly and you do things well done, the game seems easier.

If you put it this way, if you are in min 17, you see Hyypia making a 1-2 with Carraguer and then sending a deep quality ball, you know you're playing well. What a play from our two CB!!!!!! I had to review it 5 times.

I see some complains and doubts about how Rafa will change the team. Nothing to say, just

Once we scored the first goal they had to come out more which played into our hands (mind you they did not change tactics until the second half). That first goal was crucial however and I am glad we scored early. The fact they had ten men behind the ball meant Carra and Sami could have gone for a cup of tea and it would not have affected the result.

Of the next seven fixtures I worry about Stoke away as they are big and will park the bus in front of goal (again), the two things we do not seem to like. Let's hope Torres is back to his best by then.

Liverpool FC Forum

Liverpool v bolton - Boxing day

Who is online