Ambition.. - Do we show enough?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Emerald Red » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:04 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Santa wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Chelsea lack ambition. It's official!

:cool:  :upside: Is it slightly different to be down to 10 men after 35 minutes compared to the other team having a man sent off with half an hour to go?

We don't and didn't lack adventure and ambition because we didn't eventually win the game, we lacked it because we didn't for instance play with two up top until there was two minutes left to play.

It really is bizarre sometimes that those who spend the most time slagging other people off for making "ridiculous" posts, post up the oddest of things.

Oh well. At least the discussion was sensible on and off for a while.

can't believe that ER is still moaning...what's been posted in the forum about our lack of adventure immediately after the game is being repeated in all the press and most post-match commentaries it's that obvious but he's too blind to admit it...but it's his opinion so I'll let it be but when he resort to name calling and swearing to push his points through, I know he is just plain blind and ignorant...so be it!  :sniffle

Who's asking you, knobhead?

You're another fool who contributes nothing to the forum except calling anyone a name who dares to disagree with Benitez's rediculous decisions.

Take you're dick out of the managers :censored:, he has massive faults.

Aye, who's talking to you either, muppet?
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Postby Bad Bob » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:07 pm

Emerald, Stu, and whoever else is throwing the insults around...give it a rest.  It's a good thread--let's keep it that way. :blues:
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Postby Emerald Red » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:16 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Emerald, Stu, and whoever else is throwing the insults around...give it a rest.  It's a good thread--let's keep it that way. :blues:

Will do, boss.  :cool:
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Postby Rorschach26 » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:29 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Santa wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Chelsea lack ambition. It's official!

:cool:  :upside: Is it slightly different to be down to 10 men after 35 minutes compared to the other team having a man sent off with half an hour to go?

We don't and didn't lack adventure and ambition because we didn't eventually win the game, we lacked it because we didn't for instance play with two up top until there was two minutes left to play.

It really is bizarre sometimes that those who spend the most time slagging other people off for making "ridiculous" posts, post up the oddest of things.

Oh well. At least the discussion was sensible on and off for a while.

can't believe that ER is still moaning...what's been posted in the forum about our lack of adventure immediately after the game is being repeated in all the press and most post-match commentaries it's that obvious but he's too blind to admit it...but it's his opinion so I'll let it be but when he resort to name calling and swearing to push his points through, I know he is just plain blind and ignorant...so be it!  :sniffle

Who's asking you, knobhead?

You're another fool who contributes nothing to the forum except calling anyone a name who dares to disagree with Benitez's rediculous decisions.

Take you're dick out of the managers :censored:, he has massive faults.

Says the person who slags off anyone who disagrees with them......questioning thier knowledge of football like a smug patronising tw.at
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Postby taff » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:31 pm

Regardless of who said what Bad Bob did justly call for peace

I might not agree with Stu the dead :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh: but further attacks just worsens the situation
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Postby Fo Dne » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:52 pm

taff wrote:Regardless of who said what Bad Bob did justly call for peace

I might not agree with Stu the dead :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh: but further attacks just worsens the situation

I don't get why thats funny taff?

Its like me being amused by calling you staff or somethin. ???
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Postby Bad Bob » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:36 pm

My view, FWIW, is that Mick has a point.  I think our subs, especially, have shown a decided lack of adventure of late.  At the root of the issue is Robbie Keane.  Whether you think he's done okay or poorly for us thus far is beside the point--he's a proven striker that will add something to our attack, particularly in the absence of Torres.  Moreover, he's not carrying any knocks that I know of and seems to have top stamina so why he isn't kept on the pitch for 90 minutes in games we're drawing is beyond me.  With Torres out, he and Gerrard are, IMO, far and away the most likely to pop up with a winner.  And, his intelligent runs and movement will create space for others.

The other sub that seems nailed on of late is the Babel for Riera switch.  Yes, it's like for like in the sense that it allows us to keep the same system but as many have pointed out (Babelians and non-Babelians alike) the Dutch lad isn't particularly effective at LM and so we lose something fundamental to our attack every time we make that switch.  It's no coincidence that Babel's best game in a red shirt for some time came on the right flank against PSV.  If Rafa doesn't trust him to spearhead the attack--and all actions to date suggest that he doesn't--he could at least stick him at RM when he comes on.

The other issue is whether it is best to keep our shape when chasing a win late or whether it's better to throw on another striker or two and re-jig things to be more attacking.  Rafa said in the wake of the Hull draw that he wanted width and that's why he didn't bring on a 2nd striker.  Fine, width helps when teams stick 10 men behind the ball and look to stay compact.  But, I think the width in those situations is best provided by the fullbacks, while the wide midfielders should be ones that can show good movement and a bit of trickery on the ball in order to operate in tight quarters.  But, I still would like to see 2 strikers operating up top to keep the centre-halves occupied and to be in the vicinity in case the fullbacks get balls into the box.  This would also allow Stevie to operate a bit deeper and to make late runs into the box, when he's harder to pick up.  When he plays as 2nd striker against teams that sit deep, he's easier to smother anyway so we aren't sacrificing attacking intent if we bring on another striker and push him back into central midfield.  Besides, he's no slouch on the defensive side of things, as Stu likes to remind us, so he can also help Alonso snuff out any counter-attacks that might develop as we push forward.

All in all, I'm pleased we're top of table but I do feel we're playing things a lot more cautiously of late and I don't think it's the miindset we necessarily want to have.  Risking a few losses by going all out for wins is a risk I'd be prepared to take and I think the lads would welcome it as well.
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Postby LegBarnes » Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:44 pm

Bad Bob wrote:My view, FWIW, is that Mick has a point.  I think our subs, especially, have shown a decided lack of adventure of late.  At the root of the issue is Robbie Keane.  Whether you think he's done okay or poorly for us thus far is beside the point--he's a proven striker that will add something to our attack, particularly in the absence of Torres.  Moreover, he's not carrying any knocks that I know of and seems to have top stamina so why he isn't kept on the pitch for 90 minutes in games we're drawing is beyond me.  With Torres out, he and Gerrard are, IMO, far and away the most likely to pop up with a winner.  And, his intelligent runs and movement will create space for others.

The other sub that seems nailed on of late is the Babel for Riera switch.  Yes, it's like for like in the sense that it allows us to keep the same system but as many have pointed out (Babelians and non-Babelians alike) the Dutch lad isn't particularly effective at LM and so we lose something fundamental to our attack every time we make that switch.  It's no coincidence that Babel's best game in a red shirt for some time came on the right flank against PSV.  If Rafa doesn't trust him to spearhead the attack--and all actions to date suggest that he doesn't--he could at least stick him at RM when he comes on.

The other issue is whether it is best to keep our shape when chasing a win late or whether it's better to throw on another striker or two and re-jig things to be more attacking.  Rafa said in the wake of the Hull draw that he wanted width and that's why he didn't bring on a 2nd striker.  Fine, width helps when teams stick 10 men behind the ball and look to stay compact.  But, I think the width in those situations is best provided by the fullbacks, while the wide midfielders should be ones that can show good movement and a bit of trickery on the ball in order to operate in tight quarters.  But, I still would like to see 2 strikers operating up top to keep the centre-halves occupied and to be in the vicinity in case the fullbacks get balls into the box.  This would also allow Stevie to operate a bit deeper and to make late runs into the box, when he's harder to pick up.  When he plays as 2nd striker against teams that sit deep, he's easier to smother anyway so we aren't sacrificing attacking intent if we bring on another striker and push him back into central midfield.  Besides, he's no slouch on the defensive side of things, as Stu likes to remind us, so he can also help Alonso snuff out any counter-attacks that might develop as we push forward.

All in all, I'm pleased we're top of table but I do feel we're playing things a lot more cautiously of late and I don't think it's the miindset we necessarily want to have.  Risking a few losses by going all out for wins is a risk I'd be prepared to take and I think the lads would welcome it as well.

I agree totaly bob I have funny enuff lost my rag with babel but I feel rafa should at least play him on right where he has a chance to use his right foot to cross.

We would see him go out side more for crosses(since that would be natrual thing to do).

If not then at least try him up front for a whole game next to keane.

I really think rafa puts to much trust in his system over player ballance sometimes and of late it has cost us.

Now maybe not as in much as losing a game cost us but 1 draw is ok but when he have almost 4 in row isn't that like winning 2 losing 2 ?  ???

I would just be jumping for joy if rafa went for it in a game.

If we lost I wouldn't be like o I hate you rafa for that I be like fair enuff Rafa at least you went for it and it wasn't our day.
Last edited by LegBarnes on Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bigmick » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:29 pm

Excellent post Bob. I must say I've read yours a couiple of times now, and it's broadly saying the same thing which my topic opener alluded to, if anything it's a bit more explicit in the way it sets it out. The thing is, I can't for the life of me see anything at all contained within in which is controversial and was worthy of the some of the reaction I got.
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Postby Bad Bob » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:54 pm

bigmick wrote:Excellent post Bob. I must say I've read yours a couiple of times now, and it's broadly saying the same thing which my topic opener alluded to, if anything it's a bit more explicit in the way it sets it out. The thing is, I can't for the life of me see anything at all contained within in which is controversial and was worthy of the some of the reaction I got.

I know, mate.  I didn't find the idea all that controversial and I'm as happy clappy as they come.  Ah well, such is the forum of late unfortunately.  :Oo:
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Postby maypaxvobiscum » Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:34 pm

BadBob, i cant imagine Babel coming on the right side of the field especially if it means taking his fellow dutchman off.
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Postby bigmick » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:15 pm

Lets face it, and I say this knowing full well I'm going to get in the wrong side of the Babelians, he was absolutely fecking terrible when he came on as sub the other day. Now I can guess he feels a little miffed that he's not been given more of an opportunity, and 'm equally certain he isn't fond of playing on the left wing, but that was a disgrace against Arsenal.

FWIW I think he had/has got the potential to make a player, and ergo I think he hasn't been treated the most considerately in terms of his football, but at the ned of the day he earns more in a week than most do in a year and at least he could put a bit of effort in.

Whether it's his fault he's gone wrong or the managements is a moot point, but whichever way you look at it I think he should be offloaded as soon as possible, before his rap career takes off even futher at least.
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Postby account deleted by request » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:27 pm

I think Babel would welcome a change of club, and if he hasn't been playing for a move, he's certainly looked like it this season. He has never been a wholehearted player since his arrival , pulling out of tackles not interested in 50/50 balls etc. He was unlucky to sign for us when he did, and would probably have done better either staying in Holland or signing for Arsenal. I would swop him for Nasri or Walcott given half a chance!
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Postby roberto green » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:30 pm

bigmick wrote:Babelians,

:D
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Postby bigmick » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:42 pm

Tis a cracker Roberto, but not mine I must confess. All down to Bad Bob that one, and I like it so much I include it as much as possible, bending posts which are totally unconnected to the Dutchman and his plight just so I can include it  :D .
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