Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:37 pm

I think we all knew before the season started, that if we were to have a really good chance of winning the league we needed to avoid injury to Gerrard and Torres, and they needed to repeat last seasons heroics infront of goal.

Torres hasn't looked the same player to me (on the occasions he has been fit) and even though he has scored 5 goals, I wouldn't have expected anything like 30 from him this season. I have never had much faith that Keane or Kuyt could step into his shoes though.

So realistically without Torres, goals were always likely to be a problem, what I didn't expect was our defensive frailties.

by **tonyeh** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:38 pm

neil wrote:lets take out carraghers own goals and see what the points tally would have been.

did I just have a pop at carra?! string me up.

On the contrary, let's put in Masch's blatant handball in the box and a Hull penalty in the first half and see where that leaves us.

by **tubby** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:48 pm

Open your eyes people. Yes we can pull out the performances when it matters against the big sides but we have shown on many occasions this season already that we still cannot finish the small sides. 1 or 2 home draws are acceptable but after how many points dropped does one actually realise this isnt going to happen this season. I wont deny we have improved on last season but come on all these draws at home?

by **bigmick** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:49 pm

s@int wrote:So realistically without Torres, goals were always likely to be a problem, what I didn't expect was our defensive frailties.

Defensively S@int the stats aren't too bad, but I've been increasingly concerned over these last few weeks about the slight styling which is going on.

The centre halves are seemingly rotated dependant on the opposition, and whether or not they occasionally sling a high ball into the box. Hyppia plays sometimes, Agger the others. It doesn't really work ona regualr basis, we've tried it before so we know, it doesn't work. Yes if you're playing a modern day Wimbledon it makes sense to draught Sami in, but we know from experience if you rotate the centre-halves refgularly you suffer eventually.

Equally, at full back why did Insua play at Blackburn? Dossena can't be tired surely as he has probably played one game in two. Dossena had infact put a couple of decentish performances in, so why play Insua? You could then argue, having taken the decision to play him, why not leave him in as he had a solid enough debut?

Instead we rotate it back, Dossena comes back in and he and Riera on the evidence of the first goal today don't communicate with each other.

In all honesty, from a defensive point of view Dossena is absolutely awful, and if there's a worse defender at left back in the Premiership I haven't seen him yet. Having said that, the fella Abissomour Abou or whatever the feck he was called who played for Spurs against us was absolutely awful, and I think he might have been a left back.

Whatever anyway, too much styling in defence and too much Dossena.

by **tubby** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:54 pm

I know Rafa paid 8mil for Dossena but I thought Insua played ok against Blackburn and felt he should have gotten the nod ahead of Dossena. What has Dossena done to earn his place in the squad?

To be honest I would have preferred if we had lost today so more focus would be shifted on Dossena and his inability to defend. At least that way Rafa might have opened his eyes to how shyte he really is.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:00 pm

bigmick wrote:Comparing our result today with that of the Mancs for instance is silly (and I just know someone will come on and say "but Hull are above Tottenham"). For one thing, the Mancs were away (again against a decent team) and for another, Spurs are buzzing.

Got to disagree.

I think thats a poor argument.

United are direct competition for the league thus comparing results is EXACTLY what we should do. If we can at least match teh results of United and Chelse for the rest of this season, we would win the league.

We have been playing pretty average and are still up there, which is what we need to do until our and this leagues top strikers returns from injury.

Frustrated.

Disclaimer - I dont think Rafa is beyond criticism, and feel he should have replaced Kuyt on the hour, preferably with KEane.

by **RedEire** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:04 pm

As I said in another thread, i felt Dossena was our biggest weakest link and the cause of both of our goals. His complete lack of pace, awareness is shocking and I made a comment after the Spurs carling cup game that i hoped it would be his last game for Liverpool - pls God Rafa might do it now.
Rafa is known for his analysis of oppositions and trying to outwit them with his tactics. I would love for him to sit down and analysis (a) Dossena's actual contribution to this team this year and (b) his own performance when playing so called weaker teams at home when they decide to park bus in front of goal.
Also todays game at the start was very different to the Fulham and Stoke games in that there was lots of room to play - Hull came out and try to play yet Rafa is now bleating to Sky Sports saying the game was too open !!!!!!!

by **bigmick** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:05 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
bigmick wrote:Comparing our result today with that of the Mancs for instance is silly (and I just know someone will come on and say "but Hull are above Tottenham"). For one thing, the Mancs were away (again against a decent team) and for another, Spurs are buzzing.

Got to disagree.

I think thats a poor argument.

United are direct competition for the league thus comparing results is EXACTLY what we should do. If we can at least match teh results of United and Chelse for the rest of this season, we would win the league.

We have been playing pretty average and are still up there, which is what we need to do until our and this leagues top strikers returns from injury.

Frustrated.

Disclaimer - I dont think Rafa is beyond criticism, and feel he should have replaced Kuyt on the hour, preferably with KEane.

Well you could compare the results Leon in the sense that the Mancs actually beat Hull at home, whereas Chelsea smacked their erse away. Equally, we lost at White Hart Lane, whereas the Mancs drew.

I'm simply making the point that whatever any of the other teams do this weekend, us failing to beat Hull at Home given the situation and what has gone before, is an absolutely terrible result.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:12 pm

bigmick wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
bigmick wrote:Comparing our result today with that of the Mancs for instance is silly (and I just know someone will come on and say "but Hull are above Tottenham"). For one thing, the Mancs were away (again against a decent team) and for another, Spurs are buzzing.

Got to disagree.

I think thats a poor argument.

United are direct competition for the league thus comparing results is EXACTLY what we should do. If we can at least match teh results of United and Chelse for the rest of this season, we would win the league.

We have been playing pretty average and are still up there, which is what we need to do until our and this leagues top strikers returns from injury.

Frustrated.

Disclaimer - I dont think Rafa is beyond criticism, and feel he should have replaced Kuyt on the hour, preferably with KEane.

Well you could compare the results Leon in the sense that the Mancs actually beat Hull at home, whereas Chelsea smacked their erse away. Equally, we lost at White Hart Lane, whereas the Mancs drew.

I'm simply making the point that whatever any of the other teams do this weekend, us failing to beat Hull at Home given the situation and what has gone before, is an absolutely terrible result.

IF (and its a big IF by the way) West Ham by some miracle manage to get a point against Chelsea then this weekends results make NO DIFFERENCE at all, and will make the result meaningless.

by **tubby** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:16 pm

We already got off like that a few weeks ago when Chelsea dropped points. Lightning never strikes twice.

by **bigmick** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:19 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:IF (and its a big IF by the way) West Ham by some miracle manage to get a point against Chelsea then this weekends results make NO DIFFERENCE at all, and will make the result meaningless.

Well in terms of the table, short term yes it will. Normally though that you have to get somewhere in the low to mid eighties of points to win the title, and it follows that if you don't win matches that you should then you are going to have to pick the points up somewhere else.

This what we've done so far, in beating the Mancs at Home and Chelsea Away. It is entirely possible that we'll beat all the big four teams Home and Away, but it's unlikely I think. Both the Mancs and Chelsea have lost to us but have made up the ground by efficiently beating lesser teams. Failing to do that and then depending on being able to beat the big four clubs is leaving yourself a mountain a climb, and a steep one at that.

The fact that we didn't beat Hull today simply means we'll have to pick up the two points somewhere else. Arsenal away would do the trick, but should we lose there these Home draws really do come into sharp focus.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:20 pm

bigmick wrote:The fact that we didn't beat Hull today simply means we'll have to pick up the two points somewhere else. Arsneal away would do the trick, but should we lose there these Home defeats really do come into sharp focus.

What home defeats ?

We drew.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:21 pm

Can't agree Leon. If West Ham get a draw it just means we would have been 3 points clear if we had won. Every result counts no matter what our rivals do. Drawing against Hull would be a bad result even if both of our rivals LOST.

by **bigmick** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:23 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
bigmick wrote:The fact that we didn't beat Hull today simply means we'll have to pick up the two points somewhere else. Arsneal away would do the trick, but should we lose there these Home defeats really do come into sharp focus.

What home defeats ?

We drew.

Sorry mate I edited it before you got in. Re-read it and thought, "hang on silly b0ll0cks we drew didn't we". Good spot :;):

by **Leonmc0708** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:24 pm

bigmick wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
bigmick wrote:The fact that we didn't beat Hull today simply means we'll have to pick up the two points somewhere else. Arsneal away would do the trick, but should we lose there these Home defeats really do come into sharp focus.

What home defeats ?

We drew.

Sorry mate I edited it before you got in. Re-read it and thought, "hang on silly b0ll0cks we drew didn't we". Good spot

Think thats Freudian slip ?

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