Liverpool FC Forum

by **Kharhaz** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:40 am

s@int wrote:Then again I was never as harsh on Cisse as some on here. I thought he had a rough time at Liverpool, both with injuries and the role he was asked to play.

I agree. He suffered two big injuries and was forced to play in a position which Kuyt now occupies. I remember the super cup final in which he came on as a sub, scored 2 goals and won it for us. One of the few chances he was given to play his natural role.

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:47 am

LegBarnes wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:Well I have played the game bob think that might explain how I know you talking out your ar.se(on this matter).

All the stats in world don't teach you how football is played when you on the pitch.

You are not very forgiving this is how I know you ain't with it so to speak only ex pro's know that young footballing talent needs time.

You come across as your avg He ain't scored in 5 matches sell him type of fan.

Well I'll be sure to defer to your superior footballing wisdom from here on out. If an ex-pro thinks Babel's the dog's bollox, that'll be good enough for me.

I don't think he is the dog's bollox that is point I think he has been poor alot.

I think you missing my point on this maybe thats my fault.

Unlike you I am not the best at showing what I meen in words.

I feel there is something not right with him atm Is that down to confidence ? or maybe that he feels he should have more games ? Or maybe just bcos he is playing wide left and right when he wants to play up front ?

Your guess is as good as mine with out having a word with him.

But I seen alot of promise in him I meen alot he has all the skills to be world class.

He just seems to be lacking the mental strenght to exspress that on the pitch.

I hope it is just down to some basic reason and he recovers but I can see he is not happy most of time.

But I get really mad when I see a young expressive tallent like babel really going for it other night then right after people saying what a greedy little (other persons words K**t) he is.

At end of day this is what I have been looking for in him to stand up and be counted and he showed that on tuesday he brought us back into game and should be shown respect for that.

I hope you understand now.

Alright, mate, I get where you're coming from. Obviously, what cheeses me off is when people over-value a player who's been fairly mediocre all season and who has, IMO, major deficiencies in his game. You see world class potential in the lad? TBPH, I don't. The big sticking point for me is his mentality--there's just something there that doesn't click for me. Maybe Saint's come closest to what I mean with his notion that he's not the cleverest footballer around. Will he get better at decision making? Sure, experience will help. But I don't think he'll improve radically and that's why I think he'll only ever be a good player on his day rather than a world class player. I look at other young players like Fabregas, Walcott, even Rooney and their football 'smarts' are evident every match they play. They can be raw at times but the mental sharpness is there and, to be frank, I just don't see much of it with Babel. His performance the other night is a great example. He scored a nice goal, which is fantastic, and then spent the rest of the match looking to add to it. I applaud the initiative, I really do, but the way he was going about was actually counterproductive to the team's play and that's what frustrates me. I hope I'm wrong and that he matures into a fine footballer but I must say I have serious doubts.

by **LegBarnes** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:54 am

Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:Well I have played the game bob think that might explain how I know you talking out your ar.se(on this matter).

All the stats in world don't teach you how football is played when you on the pitch.

You are not very forgiving this is how I know you ain't with it so to speak only ex pro's know that young footballing talent needs time.

You come across as your avg He ain't scored in 5 matches sell him type of fan.

Well I'll be sure to defer to your superior footballing wisdom from here on out. If an ex-pro thinks Babel's the dog's bollox, that'll be good enough for me.

I don't think he is the dog's bollox that is point I think he has been poor alot.

I think you missing my point on this maybe thats my fault.

Unlike you I am not the best at showing what I meen in words.

I feel there is something not right with him atm Is that down to confidence ? or maybe that he feels he should have more games ? Or maybe just bcos he is playing wide left and right when he wants to play up front ?

Your guess is as good as mine with out having a word with him.

But I seen alot of promise in him I meen alot he has all the skills to be world class.

He just seems to be lacking the mental strenght to exspress that on the pitch.

I hope it is just down to some basic reason and he recovers but I can see he is not happy most of time.

But I get really mad when I see a young expressive tallent like babel really going for it other night then right after people saying what a greedy little (other persons words K**t) he is.

At end of day this is what I have been looking for in him to stand up and be counted and he showed that on tuesday he brought us back into game and should be shown respect for that.

I hope you understand now.

Alright, mate, I get where you're coming from. Obviously, what cheeses me off is when people over-value a player who's been fairly mediocre all season and who has, IMO, major deficiencies in his game. You see world class potential in the lad? TBPH, I don't. The big sticking point for me is his mentality--there's just something there that doesn't click for me. Maybe Saint's come closest to what I mean with his notion that he's not the cleverest footballer around. Will he get better at decision making? Sure, experience will help. But I don't think he'll improve radically and that's why I think he'll only ever be a good player on his day rather than a world class player. I look at other young players like Fabregas, Walcott, even Rooney and their football 'smarts' are evident every match they play. They can be raw at times but the mental sharpness is there and, to be frank, I just don't see much of it with Babel. His performance the other night is a great example. He scored a nice goal, which is fantastic, and then spent the rest of the match looking to add to it. I applaud the initiative, I really do, but the way he was going about was actually counterproductive to the team's play and that's what frustrates me. I hope I'm wrong and that he matures into a fine footballer but I must say I have serious doubts.

Yep i understand your concerns But he will come good I feel he don't need to be smart to be an effective striker.

Not to be to unkind infact some of the least game Intelligent strikers in past do the simple things far better in which I mean scoring.

Andy cole he didn't have a great footballing brain but he was a great striker , also Owen and Rush just to name a few.

They all didn't do much apart from score maybe some basic link up play but they are effective.

I feel babel will end up being like one of these and hopefully to the same level.

And maybe just a few more ball skills if he ever manages to use the in right places.

I know babel just don't have the skills to be a awesome winger , tho he does take a mean corner.

by **Petar** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:43 am

Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:Well I have played the game bob think that might explain how I know you talking out your ar.se(on this matter).

All the stats in world don't teach you how football is played when you on the pitch.

You are not very forgiving this is how I know you ain't with it so to speak only ex pro's know that young footballing talent needs time.

You come across as your avg He ain't scored in 5 matches sell him type of fan.

Well I'll be sure to defer to your superior footballing wisdom from here on out. If an ex-pro thinks Babel's the dog's bollox, that'll be good enough for me.

I don't think he is the dog's bollox that is point I think he has been poor alot.

I think you missing my point on this maybe thats my fault.

Unlike you I am not the best at showing what I meen in words.

I feel there is something not right with him atm Is that down to confidence ? or maybe that he feels he should have more games ? Or maybe just bcos he is playing wide left and right when he wants to play up front ?

Your guess is as good as mine with out having a word with him.

But I seen alot of promise in him I meen alot he has all the skills to be world class.

He just seems to be lacking the mental strenght to exspress that on the pitch.

I hope it is just down to some basic reason and he recovers but I can see he is not happy most of time.

But I get really mad when I see a young expressive tallent like babel really going for it other night then right after people saying what a greedy little (other persons words K**t) he is.

At end of day this is what I have been looking for in him to stand up and be counted and he showed that on tuesday he brought us back into game and should be shown respect for that.

I hope you understand now.

Alright, mate, I get where you're coming from. Obviously, what cheeses me off is when people over-value a player who's been fairly mediocre all season and who has, IMO, major deficiencies in his game. You see world class potential in the lad? TBPH, I don't. The big sticking point for me is his mentality--there's just something there that doesn't click for me. Maybe Saint's come closest to what I mean with his notion that he's not the cleverest footballer around. Will he get better at decision making? Sure, experience will help. But I don't think he'll improve radically and that's why I think he'll only ever be a good player on his day rather than a world class player. I look at other young players like Fabregas, Walcott, even Rooney and their football 'smarts' are evident every match they play. They can be raw at times but the mental sharpness is there and, to be frank, I just don't see much of it with Babel. His performance the other night is a great example. He scored a nice goal, which is fantastic, and then spent the rest of the match looking to add to it. I applaud the initiative, I really do, but the way he was going about was actually counterproductive to the team's play and that's what frustrates me. I hope I'm wrong and that he matures into a fine footballer but I must say I have serious doubts.

Oh well... You are wrong all the time...
First the stats... If Ryan Babel starts the game on the left wing and scores header like Oliver Bierhoff,he did not actually scored it from left wing... Or against Besiktas... His goals against Besiktas,remember? STATS SHOWS FUKC ALL,you should watch some footie. You are overrated,the best thing you do are stats...

second,he was not mediocre. He was on the bench. He was good against Mancs,Marseille,Chelsea,PSV,Spurs!
third,Ronney,Fabregas,Wallcot play every fukcin satdee...
oh stop it till it`s not late

by **Petar** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:48 am

Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:?? arsenal game and Besiktas he was up front for both and scored 3 and got us pen in arsenal game.

Oh, aye, some excellent evidence of his ability to lead the line there. He comes on as a LM against Besiktas when we're already up 4-0 and we've made it 5-0 before he gets moved up top. Talk about running through beaten horses. As for the Arsenal match, Babel was deployed on the left of midfield, as this excerpt from the Soccernet match report reminds us:

"Babel then came on for Crouch, who left the field to a standing ovation. Liverpool switched back to their preferred system, with Gerrard working behind Torres while two holding players protected the midfield." LINK

We've been all through this too, mate--read what I wrote. It's fecking Groundhog Day in here sometimes.

Well as i remember those and games and watch the arsenal one other day he didn't spend much time out on left wing..

One thing getting your info from sites another thing watching it.

But lets say even if your are right 4 games is a basis to judge if a player is ok ? why did Keane get 14 so far ?

That's because he never spends much time out on the wings because, as you like to bring up at every...single...opportunity, he's not a winger. He's forever cutting infield and lingering around the box. And yet, you and the other Babel babes would have us believe that he's been so completely burdened with his duties as a wide player that we can't see the real Babel and if only we'd just play him up top...

Well, given that he spends most of his time in and around the box and still fails to look the business you'll forgive me if I have very little faith that starting him up top will produce this miraculous metamorphosis that you lot keep insisting will happen.

Winger or striker, he'll still make poor decisions, bottle out of 50/50 situations and not look a.rsed 3/4 of the time. So forget the position he plays in and focus on the real facts behind the numbers: 12 goals over a season and half, four from starts but 8 from off the bench. That means he's a supersub--a pace merchant to throw on late in games against tired but still attacking opposition. Whenever we use him in those situations, he offers the side a fair bit. Unfortunately, when we start him, he offers much less and I guarantee that'll be the case whether he plays out wide or up top.

hahahaha,mate you are joke,sorry but I couldn`t help myself. How is not arsed almost every minute when on the pitch? How can you know that? And at the end of the day,i LIKE THAT SONG WE ALL DREAM ABOUT THE TEAM OF cARRAGHERS,but that team wouldn`t beat anyone

by **Rorschach26** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:17 am

Babel will come good

no danger

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:18 am

Rorschach26 wrote:Babel will come good

no danger

no danger to who? the opponents or us?

by **Owzat** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:23 am

Petar wrote:First the stats... If Ryan Babel starts the game on the left wing and scores header like Oliver Bierhoff,he did not actually scored it from left wing...

ok................... so because someone playing wide left, wide right, CB or DM etc scores inside the box, automatically that means they're not playing that position because they didn't score it from there?!?!? :Oo:

And Dirk Kuyt hasn't scored most of his goals from the right flank so he hasn't been playing there at all

Babel scored a good header, as you say didn't come from his playing on the right/left as he was at the time. But that was his designated position. It isn't just CFs that go into the box

by **Owzat** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:26 am

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
Rorschach26 wrote:Babel will come good

no danger

no danger to who? the opponents or us?

If he were capable of sticking to his designated role, able to turn his skills into a constant threat and stop heading off towards goal with no awareness of his team-mates like a schoolboy, then he could be a good player. He can beat his man, but doesn't very often. He just wants to dribble, head for goal and shoot. Occaisionally he remembers he isn't the only man on the pitch, but not often enough

by **maguskwt** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:35 am

LegBarnes wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:Well I have played the game bob think that might explain how I know you talking out your ar.se(on this matter).

All the stats in world don't teach you how football is played when you on the pitch.

You are not very forgiving this is how I know you ain't with it so to speak only ex pro's know that young footballing talent needs time.

You come across as your avg He ain't scored in 5 matches sell him type of fan.

Well I'll be sure to defer to your superior footballing wisdom from here on out. If an ex-pro thinks Babel's the dog's bollox, that'll be good enough for me.

I don't think he is the dog's bollox that is point I think he has been poor alot.

I think you missing my point on this maybe thats my fault.

Unlike you I am not the best at showing what I meen in words.

I feel there is something not right with him atm Is that down to confidence ? or maybe that he feels he should have more games ? Or maybe just bcos he is playing wide left and right when he wants to play up front ?

Your guess is as good as mine with out having a word with him.

But I seen alot of promise in him I meen alot he has all the skills to be world class.

He just seems to be lacking the mental strenght to exspress that on the pitch.

I hope it is just down to some basic reason and he recovers but I can see he is not happy most of time.

But I get really mad when I see a young expressive tallent like babel really going for it other night then right after people saying what a greedy little (other persons words K**t) he is.

At end of day this is what I have been looking for in him to stand up and be counted and he showed that on tuesday he brought us back into game and should be shown respect for that.

I hope you understand now.

Alright, mate, I get where you're coming from. Obviously, what cheeses me off is when people over-value a player who's been fairly mediocre all season and who has, IMO, major deficiencies in his game. You see world class potential in the lad? TBPH, I don't. The big sticking point for me is his mentality--there's just something there that doesn't click for me. Maybe Saint's come closest to what I mean with his notion that he's not the cleverest footballer around. Will he get better at decision making? Sure, experience will help. But I don't think he'll improve radically and that's why I think he'll only ever be a good player on his day rather than a world class player. I look at other young players like Fabregas, Walcott, even Rooney and their football 'smarts' are evident every match they play. They can be raw at times but the mental sharpness is there and, to be frank, I just don't see much of it with Babel. His performance the other night is a great example. He scored a nice goal, which is fantastic, and then spent the rest of the match looking to add to it. I applaud the initiative, I really do, but the way he was going about was actually counterproductive to the team's play and that's what frustrates me. I hope I'm wrong and that he matures into a fine footballer but I must say I have serious doubts.

Yep i understand your concerns But he will come good I feel he don't need to be smart to be an effective striker.

Not to be to unkind infact some of the least game Intelligent strikers in past do the simple things far better in which I mean scoring.

Andy cole he didn't have a great footballing brain but he was a great striker , also Owen and Rush just to name a few.

They all didn't do much apart from score maybe some basic link up play but they are effective.

I feel babel will end up being like one of these and hopefully to the same level.

And maybe just a few more ball skills if he ever manages to use the in right places.

I know babel just don't have the skills to be a awesome winger , tho he does take a mean corner.

Ok... I'm sure this is a matter of definition but your post doesn't make much sense if i may say... so...could you pls define what "some of the least game intelligent players" mean for you? doing simple things very well doesn't mean the player is not "game intelligent"... in fact owen and rush were one of the smartest strikers there ever was. That's WHY they do simple and EFFECTIVE stuff on the pitch. Let's take Owen for example, the lad is a very smart finisher, if the keeper goes down he simply chips the ball, if the keeper stays up, he slots the ball low, if the keeper covers the near post and did not come out quickly enough he curls the ball into the far post. He also knows how to finish powerfully. He was one of the smartest finishers in the game and he still is very good. What does babel do? look down at the ball and whacks it as hard as he could. He does have a good technique but he doesn't use his HEAD. And talk about Rush, Rush was even a better striker than owen. I don't think Babel will ever be as good as them. And I'm sorry but what you said about babel not needing to be smart to become an effective striker? that's hilarious mate...

by **Igor Zidane** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:51 am

There's something about Babel that i like , maybe it's his unpredictability . Stan Collymore was 10 times the player Babel is/ will be though . THere's no comparison there . THe only thing that let Collymore down was his attitude on and of the pitch . He had virtually everything to be a top top player , it's just that the man was a complete tool . Bbael on the other hand has shown absolutely nothing that say's to me that he will be a good striker , right or left side of a front three maybe ,but never a striker . His control i poor , his hold up play is poor and his ability to bring the midfielders into the game by keeping hold of the ball is none existant. If being a striker was about being a goal hanger and doing nothing to contribute elsewhere then he's your man . Otherwise ,he's better of out wide or as a n impact player.

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:40 pm

Petar wrote:hahahaha,mate you are joke,sorry but I couldn`t help myself.

Alright then lad. :laugh:

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:43 pm

maguskwt wrote:Ok... I'm sure this is a matter of definition but your post doesn't make much sense if i may say... so...could you pls define what "some of the least game intelligent players" mean for you? doing simple things very well doesn't mean the player is not "game intelligent"... in fact owen and rush were one of the smartest strikers there ever was. That's WHY they do simple and EFFECTIVE stuff on the pitch. Let's take Owen for example, the lad is a very smart finisher, if the keeper goes down he simply chips the ball, if the keeper stays up, he slots the ball low, if the keeper covers the near post and did not come out quickly enough he curls the ball into the far post. He also knows how to finish powerfully. He was one of the smartest finishers in the game and he still is very good. What does babel do? look down at the ball and whacks it as hard as he could. He does have a good technique but he doesn't use his HEAD. And talk about Rush, Rush was even a better striker than owen. I don't think Babel will ever be as good as them. And I'm sorry but what you said about babel not needing to be smart to become an effective striker? that's hilarious mate...

Not to mention that Owen, Rush etc. had the smarts to make the right runs in the first place.

by **heimdall** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:45 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
heimdall wrote:I guess we will never solve this unless he is given a chance up front. To me it is so obvious he would shine too most of you lot, with the exception of LegBarnes and Petar, the opposite is the case but we might never know for sure and that is a real shame.

I refer you to my previous post, which shows that he has been tested up top against opposition he should have torn up for a.rse paper and yet he didn't do the business.

So do we also conclude that Keane is no striker then? What about Crouch when he first came to ut?
Babel has almost always played as lone striker for us and that is together with the B team so no service to him, I say give him a chance alongside Keane with the A team for a few matches.

by **heimdall** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:55 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:Well I have played the game bob think that might explain how I know you talking out your ar.se(on this matter).

All the stats in world don't teach you how football is played when you on the pitch.

You are not very forgiving this is how I know you ain't with it so to speak only ex pro's know that young footballing talent needs time.

You come across as your avg He ain't scored in 5 matches sell him type of fan.

Well I'll be sure to defer to your superior footballing wisdom from here on out. If an ex-pro thinks Babel's the dog's bollox, that'll be good enough for me.

Now that's the first intelligent thing you've said for a long time

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