Liverpool FC Forum

Sabre wrote:I don't find your view radical, in fact that's a possibility that's been discussed hundred of times in my country.

The problem I see is that reducing the league to 18 teams, only means 4 matches less in the local competition. Not enough to get the necessary matches to do a proper European league. And if you talk about reducing further than 18 teams, you'd find a massive opposition in the local federations, at least the Spanish ones.

The agenda, with the international games, is crowded enough. It's difficult to set a proper league without weakening competitions that have more than 100 years of history.

But despite I think it's difficult, I'm afraid that may be the future if the course of football continues this way.

Bad Bob wrote:Right, so let's see who we can be drawn against now that the dust's all settled.  I'm assuming we can't draw Atletico Madrid again at this stage.  And we can't get any other group winners or any of the English clubs, which leaves:

Inter
Sporting Lisbon
Villareal
Lyon
Real Madrid

Sporting would seem to be the weakest of that lot, which means we won't get them.  I expect it'll be Inter or Real, with Villareal as the dark horse.  Somehow, I just don't see us drawing Lyon for some reason.  It shall be interesting to see who comes out of the pot next Friday.

Bad Bob wrote:Right, so let's see who we can be drawn against now that the dust's all settled.  I'm assuming we can't draw Atletico Madrid again at this stage.  And we can't get any other group winners or any of the English clubs, which leaves:

Inter
Sporting Lisbon
Villareal
Lyon
Real Madrid

Sporting would seem to be the weakest of that lot, which means we won't get them.  I expect it'll be Inter or Real, with Villareal as the dark horse.  Somehow, I just don't see us drawing Lyon for some reason.  It shall be interesting to see who comes out of the pot next Friday.

I have a sneaky feeling we'll get Inter again. We often seem to draw the same teams (like Chelsea, PSV and Marseille in recent years), and for this reason I would like to avoid them and play someone else, so hopefully my gut feeling is wrong!

Would also like to avoid Villarreal though, as I actually think they're quite strong (I'm not giving too much thought to their defeat against Celtic yesterday, as they were already through).

On the other hand it would be very interesting to play Real Madrid me thinks (and I think we would stand an excellent chance, although I realise things might look different for them come February).

Sporting would obviously be the easiest draw on paper, but then again so was Benfica in 2006.

Lyon? They're a bit difficult to judge tbh, as they sometimes turn in a magnificent performance, whereas at other times they do look rather average imo.

All in all I would prefer Real Madrid or Sporting (then Lyon). Which leads me to conclude that we'll get... Inter

bigmick wrote:The reason I mentioned it at the time of course was not because I particularly give a feck about UEFA or Platini, but because I was making the point that just because you did well in Europe, it doesn't make your manager a God if he manages one of the big four in England. To be justifiably revered, you have to do well against your peers IMHO, in the Premiership.

It's an interesting post Mick. Curiously this phenomenon (good cup sides but less successful league sides) also occured during a period in the early 80's where we saw something similar happen to another club who was not only doing fantastically well in Europe (all things considered) but also in the domestic Cup competitions as well.... which mirrors what we were doing in the previous 5 years barring one under Rafa.

I speak of Spurs in their heyday when they were pushing for honours in Europe and doing brilliantly in the domestic competitions.

From 1980-1984, they were simply outstanding in the cup competitions both in Europe and domestically.

FA cup winners in '81 and '82.
League Cup runners-up in '82.
Charity Shield winners in '82 and Runner's-up in'83
UEFA Cup Winner's Cup Semi-finalists in '82
UEFA Cup winners in '84.

They were however struggling in the league in that period coming in 10th, 4th, 4th and 8th respectively from '81-'84.

Our record, under Rafa, while undeniably better, bears an uncanny resemblance during the Spaniard's 1st 4 seasons in charge.

European Cup winners in '05, Runner's up in '07 and semifinalists in '08.
FA Cup winners in '06
League Cup Runner's up in '05
UEFA Super Cup winners in '06
Charity Shield winners in '07

During this period we came in 5th, 3rd, 3rd and 4th.

Like us, they had an iconic and arguably the best midfielder in England at the time in Glenn Hoddle while we have the, imo, incomparable Steven Gerrard.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that for a team to be successful in the league as compared to just the cups require different philosophies and approaches.

With Spurs during that period, their strengths were the exact mirror opposites to our own strenghts under Rafa. They were a fantastically gifted team in attack but woeful in defence which is 180 degrees apart from our own strengths.

In the league
To get a result against spurs in those days most teams would play them on the counter attack. With their porous defence, it didn't make sense for teams to take a "park the bus" approach. As such, they struggled in the league against physical opposition who would press them no end in the hope of getting a draw and even a win.

For us, under Rafa, I feel that our strengths were mostly defensive. So the weaker teams would do something similar (but not exactly the same) as they probably knew that they could get a result against us as long as they didn't over commit their players. Hence the multitude of draws.

In Cup Competitions

Its an entirely different kettle of fish as you simply cannot play for a draw as it buys you nothing..... you have to play for the win eventually and this opens up spaces to allow both teams to play their natural games. Hence why both teams do well in cups and not as well in the league.

I've not been following our games recently due to other commitments but over the last couple of days I've read, with great interest, some of the match threads of late so the only thing I've got to see how we've been doing is the posts from all on here. When I've got a bit more time, I'll try to watch the past few games on the net. Maybe then I'll have more of an opinion on how we've been doing.

But I've got to say, it feels absolutely fabulous being in the current position we are in at the moment.