Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:59 pm

Ok, Ok

by **metalhead** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:02 pm

Mascha is still a fantastic player though, our little chief

by **tubby** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:05 pm

Hes had his off moments this season but hes still solid and is always up for it.

by **Rush Job** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:13 pm

I actually thought by his standards he had a bad game last night, a few times he passed straight to the oppo but his defencive work was spot on as always.

by **Zidane** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:19 pm

He's just a player that goes by unnoticed, always will imo. Same as Makelele although I rate Makelele more than Masch, not atm but you know what I mean I still think with time Masch can be just as good. Were to be let go people would realize how big a difference he makes.

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:24 pm

Rush Job wrote:I actually thought by his standards he had a bad game last night, a few times he passed straight to the oppo but his defencive work was spot on as always.

This is my only complaint with Masch...there are times when he can be a little tidier with his use of the ball. He's got everything in his locker as a defensive midfielder and, as Sabre's noted, he does important work driving forward with the ball at his feet on occasion. This is key because opponents know that they can't just double up on others and leave him unmarked on the ball, or he'll move it into a danger area. If he could just offer a bit more with his distribution at the end of those runs he'd make an important contribution to our attack. Absolutely cracking little player though and one who we should never take for granted, such is the contribution he makes to the side whenever he plays.

by **bigmick** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:34 pm

I've never bought into this "unseen" work nonsense. The implication is that football supporters are idiots and don't know what they're looking at. In many cases this may or may not be true, but I and many others would like to think we are capable of seeing what a player like Masherano brings to the team, or a Makeleli, or indeed what Alonso wasn't bringing to it in sufficient quantities in seasons before this one.

I've said many times that I think Masherano is just about the best holding midfielder in World football, and I've seen nothing this season so far which would change that opinion. I've also said many times that given his excellence and the welcome return of Alonso to his brilliant best (we can all SEE what he's doing now), I'd move Gerrard out to the right of midfield. If Torres came back, and Keane found some form, what a team we'd be then.

The thing you mustn't do with Masherano is play him and then have another central midfielder stood within five yards of him. If you play him, you must trust him to do the destructive work he does best and then everyone will be aware again what a top player he is. Where we are though, he hasn't so far had the chance to shine too often. He did have a huge game against the Mancs (even making the decisive contribution for the winner) as well as an excellent performance against Chelsea. As we haven't had a proper game in the Champions League as of yet, it's not really been his place to shine. Once we start playing the big four though in crucial games, as well as the Champions League proper getting underway, he'll show what he's made of I'm sure of it. Top player for me and an excellent buy from the manager.

by **Sabre** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:42 pm

The implication is that football supporters are idiots and don't know what they're looking at

I agree most of your post but that bit.

No it's not.

I agree I haven't seen anything to worry this season about his quality, but then, why he's not getting as much credit as others? (or is it just me?)

If you ask every Liverpool fan about Reina, they'll tell you that they love him. Yet, in his position he doesn't get 10% of the credit he should get.

Similarly, in the tasks of a holding midfielder, there are things that must be well done and necessary, but quite simply do not get enough credit, because that work is not that beautiful to see. If you have the luck to watch a game in the pitch and not in tv, you're even more able to see even more details.

By unseen and dirty I mean he does those tasks well, and a player that do not score beautiful goals from range also deserves credit for his tasks.

I wanted to make clear I don't imply other fans are idiots. Hopefully I've explained what I meant now.

by **Simari** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:38 am

Sabre, my view is that, as fans, we tend to focus on dramatic changes in player performances from year to year. Hence, our opinions on players we consider great and others that we consider not good enough.

Masch has been consistently good over a period of time, without doing anything spectacular. It is sometimes difficult to have an ongoing debate about a player who is just consistently good (not brilliant). Yes, we can talk up comparisons with similar players in other clubs, but then - if there's nothing to complain about, there won't be the need for comparison

Interesting question though

by **Fo Dne** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:57 am

Sabre wrote:We're already in December and no tribute threads not nor Mascherano talk praising his game?

It's unbelievable I say this but too much praises for Alonso these days, it's time to have a bit of Mascherano talk. He deserves a lot of praise.

It's difficult to be focused in games like yesterday. You're top of the table, you're qualified, you don't play your strongest eleven, you play the second keeper. But it makes no difference for Mascherano, his attitude in his game was superb.

He's an expensive player, but he's worth the last penny Liverpool paid for him.

He's that good at what he does, that some even thought Alonso is a poor holding midfielder in comparison, and Alonso is not a poor holding midfielder he sat down Hamman and he has played the position for Spain (which is not Chile or Norway, with all due respect).

His dirty (aka unseen) work has made possible that Alonso this year goes upper, and while the basque gets the credit, Mascherano hasn't seen that much praise. That's unfair.

So as a conclussion, I don't think Mascherano is doing an average season but a good one, and his work is very sacrificed and ungrateful.

What do you think about his season? Opinions about him?

P.S. Mods, as soon as I posted, I realised the Mascherano is out thread has been recovered, please do the merging if you wish. Do it without fear, if it hapens an accident with my thread nobody dies!

Well overated and his passing was awful the other day as usual.

Good player, no where near as good as he's made out to be though by our own.

by **Fowler_E7** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:18 pm

Fo Dne wrote:Good player, no where near as good as he's made out to be though by our own.

agree, he's excellent defensively and always makes a contribution in that sense, but when attacking contributes nothing, terrible passing, tunnel vison, cant shoot etc.

Having said all that though, when we have a big game i always want him in there as he is like a magnet to the ball and breaks up so many opposition attacks, but he has to improve in possesion of the ball.

If we had more skillful players in the side it wouldnt be much of a problem, as seen when he plays for Argentina, but we have kuyt, Arbeloa and Carragher as well as Mascherano reguarly playing who can barely use the football, thats 4 out of 11 FFS! no wonder we struggle to braek down stubborn defences

by **GYBS** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:21 pm

Yeah we could have a team full of skillful players like arsenal and look what has happened there .

by **stmichael** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:23 pm

He's not been the same player this season for me. Whether that's due to him going to the Olympics in the summer I'm not sure.

To be honest, we shouldn't need him in the side on Saturday in a game in which we'll dominate possession anyway.

by **Fo Dne** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:24 pm

GYBS wrote:Yeah we could have a team full of skillful players like arsenal and look what has happened there .

Yeah because we'd have no grit and fight in midfield without Mascherano. Alonso and Gerrard never put a tackle in and don't work hard...

:laugh:

by **GYBS** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:26 pm

Yeah thats right lets drop xabi and gerrard a bit deeper to patrol in front of the back four and loose their abilities going forward .

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