Liverpool FC Forum

by **kazza** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:22 pm

I actually think he is a very good and exciting player. He can frustrate, but he always has the potential to do something special. He is strong, quick and talented, but his problem seems to be a lack of confidence or perhaps positive attitude. He is not one to track back and defend and that is probably why he does not start. He is probably the opposite of Kuyt in that he is much more talented but with much less industry. I think he is often critisized because he seems to have a " I don't care" demeanor but I think that is only personality quirk as he is probably laid back as a person. I also think you will get the best out of him when he plays in the center as it would give him more options when running at defenders. I hope he stays.

He is also much more talented than Barnes was...

(at rapping that is)

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:08 pm

We are talking about Babel arent we?? Its just that some people have said he can beat a player? Which has confused me, as I dont think I have ever seen it happen.. Ok he has a hard shot, but lets be honest he is built like a brick s hi thouse, so he should be able to kick a ball hard in the general right direction..

by **mistyred** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:18 pm

Unless i have Babel confused with somebody from another team i have seen him beat plenty of players
that's generally what happens when you go past a few players

.

I think Babel is a very good player and yes he could work on some things but that's what trainings for
he is noway as bad as the scapegoat he is made out to be.

by **Owzat** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:00 pm

mistyred wrote:Unless i have Babel confused with somebody from another team i have seen him beat plenty of players
that's generally what happens when you go past a few players .

I think Babel is a very good player and yes he could work on some things but that's what trainings for
he is noway as bad as the scapegoat he is made out to be.

Yet nowhere near as good as your first sentence implies

Sub role as a striker yes, first team regular no. But when Rafa keeps picking him to occaisionally beat a man and even more occaisonally scoring or putting in a decent cross

by **mistyred** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:48 pm

Owzat wrote:
mistyred wrote:Unless i have Babel confused with somebody from another team i have seen him beat plenty of players
that's generally what happens when you go past a few players .

I think Babel is a very good player and yes he could work on some things but that's what trainings for
he is noway as bad as the scapegoat he is made out to be.

Yet nowhere near as good as your first sentence implies

Sub role as a striker yes, first team regular no. But when Rafa keeps picking him to occaisionally beat a man and even more occaisonally scoring or putting in a decent cross

Mate he barely get's enough time on the pitch to wipe his
whatsit, Neither does El Zahar and both have bags of promise and potential but under guidance of somebody with trust in the young players.

If Leto had stayed and not gone on lone i don't think he would have played much either even though Rafa made such
a fuss about his passport.

At the end of the day Babel had offers from a host of europe's elite clubs he chose US, Rafa promised him a striking role i saw the article of Rafa and Babels interview, if i was
Babel i would be p'issed too.

by **Toffeehater** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:36 pm

We are not arsenal , we don't give the youngsters much playing time and even manu have started to do that now , playing youngtsers such as evans , welbeck , rafael .

Couple of youngsters who should be given some starts , Insua , Nemeth , Babel at the very least . Its a cheaper way to nurture your own talent as well

by **LegBarnes** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:13 pm

Rafa for me is shooting him self in the foot with babel a player that has had so many top people in football back him and what does he do stick him out on left where his skills are wasted.

Babel is a fantastic finisher do we ever get to see him doing that no ! why because he hardly ever gets a chance to get into 1v1s.

I keep telling you the stats 2 starts as striker in those 2 starts he baged 3 goals so why don't rafa play him striker cos rafa is a stubbon ar.se hole thats why. :down:

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:42 pm

LegBarnes wrote:Rafa for me is shooting him self in the foot with babel a player that has had so many top people in football back him and what does he do stick him out on left where his skills are wasted.

Babel is a fantastic finisher do we ever get to see him doing that no ! why because he hardly ever gets a chance to get into 1v1s.

I keep telling you the stats 2 starts as striker in those 2 starts he baged 3 goals so why don't rafa play him striker cos rafa is a stubbon ar.se hole thats why.

Which stats are those?

So far this season
(1)Started up top against Crewe (Carling Cup) and failed to score

Last season
(1)Started as striker against Cardiff (Carling Cup) and failed to score
(2) Started as striker against Blackburn (Prem) and failed to score
(3)Started as striker against Havant and Waterlooville (FA Cup) and failed to score

For the record, he's scored 8 of his 11 goals for us as sub. Two more have come as starting LM in a 4-4-2 and the last one as a starter on the left in a 4-2-3-1. So by my maths, he's actually never scored for us when started as an out-and-out striker.

Link to Soccernet Game Log for Babel 2007-2008

by **tubby** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:50 pm

Thanks for that Bob. Maybe now people will stop thinking Babel playing up front is the key to everything.

by **LegBarnes** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:19 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:Rafa for me is shooting him self in the foot with babel a player that has had so many top people in football back him and what does he do stick him out on left where his skills are wasted.

Babel is a fantastic finisher do we ever get to see him doing that no ! why because he hardly ever gets a chance to get into 1v1s.

I keep telling you the stats 2 starts as striker in those 2 starts he baged 3 goals so why don't rafa play him striker cos rafa is a stubbon ar.se hole thats why.

Which stats are those?

So far this season
(1)Started up top against Crewe (Carling Cup) and failed to score

Last season
(1)Started as striker against Cardiff (Carling Cup) and failed to score
(2) Started as striker against Blackburn (Prem) and failed to score
(3)Started as striker against Havant and Waterlooville (FA Cup) and failed to score

For the record, he's scored 8 of his 11 goals for us as sub. Two more have come as starting LM in a 4-4-2 and the last one as a starter on the left in a 4-2-3-1. So by my maths, he's actually never scored for us when started as an out-and-out striker.

Link to Soccernet Game Log for Babel 2007-2008

I was talking about last season besiktas got 2 was brought on up front and arsensal last season played up front and scored.

by **tubby** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:32 pm

Forget last season this is this season and he is shyte.

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:47 pm

LegBarnes wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:Rafa for me is shooting him self in the foot with babel a player that has had so many top people in football back him and what does he do stick him out on left where his skills are wasted.

Babel is a fantastic finisher do we ever get to see him doing that no ! why because he hardly ever gets a chance to get into 1v1s.

I keep telling you the stats 2 starts as striker in those 2 starts he baged 3 goals so why don't rafa play him striker cos rafa is a stubbon ar.se hole thats why.

Which stats are those?

So far this season
(1)Started up top against Crewe (Carling Cup) and failed to score

Last season
(1)Started as striker against Cardiff (Carling Cup) and failed to score
(2) Started as striker against Blackburn (Prem) and failed to score
(3)Started as striker against Havant and Waterlooville (FA Cup) and failed to score

For the record, he's scored 8 of his 11 goals for us as sub. Two more have come as starting LM in a 4-4-2 and the last one as a starter on the left in a 4-2-3-1. So by my maths, he's actually never scored for us when started as an out-and-out striker.

Link to Soccernet Game Log for Babel 2007-2008

I was talking about last season besiktas got 2 was brought on up front and arsensal last season played up front and scored.

Oh, aye, some excellent evidence of his ability to lead the line there. He comes on as a LM against Besiktas when we're already up 4-0 and we've made it 5-0 before he gets moved up top. Talk about running through beaten horses.

As for the Arsenal match, Babel was deployed on the left of midfield, as this excerpt from the Soccernet match report reminds us:

"Babel then came on for Crouch, who left the field to a standing ovation. Liverpool switched back to their preferred system, with Gerrard working behind Torres while two holding players protected the midfield." LINK

So, from what I can see, neither of your examples provide great support to the theory that he's done the business as a striker. Indeed, failing to score when deployed as a striker against the likes of Cardiff (90 mins.), Blackburn (63 mins.), Havant and Waterlooville (90 mins.) and Crewe (87 mins) seems to lend more weight to the idea that maybe he's not up to it.

(I say all of this, BTW, not to pick on Babel per se, but rather to take issue with the myth that he's been awesome when used as a striker yet somehow stubborn old Rafa just won't turn him loose. As the stats show, there's no basis for that claim.)

by **Petar** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:03 pm

bavlondon wrote:Forget last season this is this season and he is shyte.

oh,fak off. This season? Scored against mancs,got penalty against marseille,played fantastic against chelsea,assist against standard,2 asissts against Spurs. These are the games when he actually played for a while. Noone`s giving him a chance. He is fast,strong,skilfull,with nice tricks and technique. He is something different,you could saw that against Arsenal last year,Mancs this year,that goal against Derby... He is no Yossi `I am going to give a safe pass` Benayoun,. He is DANGEROUS guy,powerful one. No need for stats Bad Bob,some things you can see from the games. Who ever talks about Deco stats,but he is genius,because he gives something different to the squad like fluidity.

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:12 pm

Petar wrote:No need for stats Bad Bob,some things you can see from the games.

True. I can see that he's got a poor first touch, his decision making is suspect, his off-the-ball movement is weak and he sometimes can't be a.rsed. I can also see that he's an asset coming off the bench, late in games against teams that are willing to come out and look for a goal of their own because his pace and directness are a useful weapon running in behind against tired legs. I've seen all of this stuff with Babel and having been saying as much for ages. The stats are a one-off effort to clear up what's fast becoming a popular misconception about the lad but I assure you that I don't need stats to see that his place is on the bench as a supersub. :;):

by **bigmick** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:39 pm

He's definately dipped as of late, and there is the distinct possibility he'll never be good enough. That said, he has in the past had the knack of making something happen when he's come on, and was within about 9 inches of doing so on Monday night.

Choose whatever anyone says about him, and regardless of whether you are a fan of his or not, he ABSOLUTEY MUST be a better bet for coming on as a replacement for Keane than Egg Nog surely? Is there anybody at all who doesn't agree with that?

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