Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:53 pm

tonyeh wrote:
supersub wrote:
tonyeh wrote:Can I not be critical of the team or the current situation?

Top of the League

It doesn't get any worse than that....

If we win the League Rafa should be sacked and the whole squad sold...

If we add the European Cup then Anfield needs to be levelled and the ground used for housing, the club resign from the Premier league and told to join the Zingari league

It's great being "top of the league", but it can and should be better.

We are a single point above Chelsea, we have fluffed the chances to pull away to a more comfortable position with three "easy" games.

We have a strong Utd catching up on us, with a game in hand.

Chelsea have a ridiculous goal difference that'll show us up if they draw level again.

Neither of those sides have the troubles up front we have, even if they have had their own blips of late.

We've shown that we still have a lot of problems breaking teams down, even with the lions share of possession.

With Torres out, our attacking options are very limited, in fact one could say they are nearly nil at the moment. One of them keeps getting taken out of the game on the hour, the other is dumped out onto the left side of midfield.

And even with Torres playing, we have had trouble getting goals. The service from midfield has been terrible, to say the least.

We have a weak fullback situation, with Dossena being particularly chronic.

At times, we have looked depressingly average and few of our games have been won in a convincing manner.

I'd like to see all of the above change and so do the rest of you.

Thing is, Tony, there's fair criticism and then there's OTT nonsense. What you've posted here is fair criticism that we can all agree with. When you start talking about a sizeable gulf in class between us and the "Big Three" or bang on about how lucky we were to beat the Mancs and Chelsea--as though we didn't deserve to win those games--you're going over the top and will get pulled up for it. Throw in the fact that most people can't remember the last time you've said anything positive about the lads and your occasional use of "they" to refer to Liverpool and you give the distinct impression of being here on a wind-up. Maybe you're not. Maybe you're a genuine Liverpool supporter who prefers to focus on what needs fixing rather than on what's gone well but the more you bang on about lucky wins against a superior "Big Three" the more doubt you'll cast about your true loyalty.

by **aCe'** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:57 pm

hey its no rocket science its quite simply really... we can defend better than most sides in Europe... We have a manager whos one of the best in the world when it comes to setting a team up to defend and try to nick a draw or a win against sides that are BETTER than we are going forward... Against smaller teams we always seem to struggle because our manager doesnt seem to have what it takes to set up a team to go out and attack and create chances...

In a league competition you ned the right balance between Attack and Defense and atm we just dont seem to have that balance... we have some players who can individually offer alot going forward...the likes of Torres, Gerrard and maybe to a lesser extent Babel or Riera...

Its pretty stupid coming out and knocking people for criticizing the manager or expressing concern over our displays even if we'r top of the league... we'r one point away from chelsea and 3 (if they beat fulham which i fully expect them to do) from ManUnited... I fully expect us to slip down the table if we keep playing the way we are.. the way we'r playing atm is definitely cause for concern so all moaning and btching is justified imo...

by **supersub** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:57 pm

tonyeh wrote:Likewise, Arsenal may have not won much in recent times, but they have won the Premiership 3 times and they have finished first or second for most of Wenger's tenure.

where arsenal finished consistently over 4 years ago means diddley when their present record is so pitiful.

They are now the bridesmaid of the top 4 consistently bereft of silverware :laugh:

by **NANNY RED** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:07 pm

tonyeh wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:You see that article i posted Tony have a read . I think it was aimed at fans like you

How is it "aimed" at fans like me Nan?

Is it so bad to be critical of the team, that I can't point it out?

I thought this was a discussion forum. Were all things concerning Liverpool were to be discussed?

Or is criticism not allowed?

Theres Critisim and there way over the top Tony
We all know the teams not playing well but that not playing well has us sitting top of the prem an i for one am made up. I dont care if the ball is whipped in the net by Carras snot as long as it keeps us top of the league or in very close contention. IMO we are doing our job. Thats what we want we want them to be there or there abouts an they are . Ok not pretty to watch . But were in the rule book does it say you have to play sexy football to be champions. What the others are doing an how there playing doesnt concern me it only concerns me when we play them.

by **tonyeh** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:15 pm

Toffeehater wrote:

Tonyeh -

We have played manu off the park whenever we played them. Last season their first goal was a foul mate . Masch was unfairly sent off and thats where we lost the plot .

Nah, I'm not buying that Toff. the reality is, is that Utd had the measure of liverpool from beginning to end. The first goal from Brown was scored before Masch stupidly got himself sent off.

Liverpool were on the backfoot for the entire game, the sending off just compounded that.

These season we played well against them without two of our best players

We played well and got lucky breaks with the goals, one of which was an OG. The match was no indication on which team is generally the stronger outfit.

maybe their wide man are better but our strikers are better than theirs .

There's no "maybe" about it. Their wide men are MUCH better. One of them won them the league last year.

One of our strikers can compete with Tevez, Rooney and berbatov. "Our" strikers (plural) are nor "better" than theirs.

The problems are evident but not as bad as some of us are making out . We are top of the league , although we could be further ahead but we have beaten the mancs and chelsea this season .

I disagree. The problems are very serious. if we have trouble breaking down teams, we'll have trouble winning the title. Simple as. Up to now, we have been very lucky grinding out barely positive results, but Liverpool cannot rely on luck.

It's evident that our attack is impotent and that is in serious need of change.

The thing is, I cannot see where that change is going to come from. We don't seem to have gotten further away from the Torre'n'Gerrard FC situation we had last year. I don't Keane doing well at Anfield, based on form and how Rafa is choosing to use him and Babel is never used in a forward position. that leaves N'Gog and Kuyt, which is no choice at all, AFAIC.

We are barely ahead in the league and that can change this weekend for the worst, if we only manage a draw against Blackburn. Chelsea won't lose their match against Bolton this weekend.

by **tonyeh** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:26 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
supersub wrote:
tonyeh wrote:Can I not be critical of the team or the current situation?

Top of the League

It doesn't get any worse than that....

If we win the League Rafa should be sacked and the whole squad sold...

If we add the European Cup then Anfield needs to be levelled and the ground used for housing, the club resign from the Premier league and told to join the Zingari league

It's great being "top of the league", but it can and should be better.

We are a single point above Chelsea, we have fluffed the chances to pull away to a more comfortable position with three "easy" games.

We have a strong Utd catching up on us, with a game in hand.

Chelsea have a ridiculous goal difference that'll show us up if they draw level again.

Neither of those sides have the troubles up front we have, even if they have had their own blips of late.

We've shown that we still have a lot of problems breaking teams down, even with the lions share of possession.

With Torres out, our attacking options are very limited, in fact one could say they are nearly nil at the moment. One of them keeps getting taken out of the game on the hour, the other is dumped out onto the left side of midfield.

And even with Torres playing, we have had trouble getting goals. The service from midfield has been terrible, to say the least.

We have a weak fullback situation, with Dossena being particularly chronic.

At times, we have looked depressingly average and few of our games have been won in a convincing manner.

I'd like to see all of the above change and so do the rest of you.

Thing is, Tony, there's fair criticism and then there's OTT nonsense. What you've posted here is fair criticism that we can all agree with. When you start talking about a sizeable gulf in class between us and the "Big Three" or bang on about how lucky we were to beat the Mancs and Chelsea--as though we didn't deserve to win those games--you're going over the top and will get pulled up for it. Throw in the fact that most people can't remember the last time you've said anything positive about the lads and your occasional use of "they" to refer to Liverpool and you give the distinct impression of being here on a wind-up. Maybe you're not. Maybe you're a genuine Liverpool supporter who prefers to focus on what needs fixing rather than on what's gone well but the more you bang on about lucky wins against a superior "Big Three" the more doubt you'll cast about your true loyalty.

Bob, there is no "deserve". That means nothing. the team that gets the ball in the net wins the game, no matter what. "Deserve" really has nothing to do with it.

As far as the Utd game is concerned, Liverpool won because Wes Brown gifted them an OG and Babel mis-kicked the ball past Van Der Sar. They were fortunate goals that sealed the deal, even if Liverpool played well. Without that fortune, we'd be talking about yet another Liverpool loss to our greatest rivals.

Likewise, the Chelsea game was decided by a very fortunate deflection from Alsonso's shot, that Cech couldn't possibly have done anything about.

These results, while unbelievably great, are no indication of which teams are generally stronger season in, season out. The are certainly no indication of Liverpool's performance's this season, which despite the present position, have generally been poor.

As I said before, the last three 0-0 draws and the defeat to Spurs is just reality landing down with a nasty bump and without Torres in the side, I cannot see a way past the inability to finish off teams with goals.

by **tonyeh** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:30 pm

As far as using "They", Bob, I sometimes feel uncomfortable about saying "we", only because I am not on the pitch week in, week out.

When I say "They", it's out of respect for the lads doing the work.

by **aCe'** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:32 pm

tonyeh wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:

Tonyeh -

We have played manu off the park whenever we played them. Last season their first goal was a foul mate . Masch was unfairly sent off and thats where we lost the plot .

Nah, I'm not buying that Toff. the reality is, is that Utd had the measure of liverpool from beginning to end. The first goal from Brown was scored before Masch stupidly got himself sent off.

Liverpool were on the backfoot for the entire game, the sending off just compounded that.

These season we played well against them without two of our best players

We played well and got lucky breaks with the goals, one of which was an OG. The match was no indication on which team is generally the stronger outfit.

maybe their wide man are better but our strikers are better than theirs .

There's no "maybe" about it. Their wide men are MUCH better. One of them won them the league last year.

One of our strikers can compete with Tevez, Rooney and berbatov. "Our" strikers (plural) are nor "better" than theirs.

The problems are evident but not as bad as some of us are making out . We are top of the league , although we could be further ahead but we have beaten the mancs and chelsea this season .

I disagree. The problems are very serious. if we have trouble breaking down teams, we'll have trouble winning the title. Simple as. Up to now, we have been very lucky grinding out barely positive results, but Liverpool cannot rely on luck.

It's evident that our attack is impotent and that is in serious need of change.

The thing is, I cannot see where that change is going to come from. We don't seem to have gotten further away from the Torre'n'Gerrard FC situation we had last year. I don't Keane doing well at Anfield, based on form and how Rafa is choosing to use him and Babel is never used in a forward position. that leaves N'Gog and Kuyt, which is no choice at all, AFAIC.

We are barely ahead in the league and that can change this weekend for the worst, if we only manage a draw against Blackburn. Chelsea won't lose their match against Bolton this weekend.

spot on...

Hey comeon dont seriously try and compare the quality of our squad with that of Manutds ... They have better players in every position and the only players in our squad who could get into their starting 11 would be Gerrard, Torres and maybe Reina...

Its funny how everyone is talking about us being top of the league and how its in our hads now... the way we'r playing we can very well end up playing for 4th place again come may...

a loss to Arsenal in a few weeks with Chelsea and Manutd winning would get us back to square one behind Chelsea and Manutd and challenging Arsenal for 3rd or 4th spot....

its not all rosy and being top of the table right about now with a 1 point difference means fck all !

We had a chance of going clear top which would have done us wonders in terms of confidence..etc etc but we didnt... stop playing it down like it was fine drawing because end of the day we'r still top of the league..

Manutd have an esier set of fixtures for the 2nd half of the season and IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE ! im sure Ferguson knows that despite their results against the other top 3 theyr still better off now than Arsenal, and probably us ! Chelsea are going to get theyr players back in the next few weeks and cant see many sides stopping them after they do... we'r in a good position just not good enough given the chances we had of making a good situation better...

by **dawson99** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:32 pm

We just dont play with enough desire against the smaller teams, maybe we are a counter attack club with that mentality and cant work out how to break teams down?

Or maybe we just need to try harder for the whole game, not just in injury time?

Or maybe we just need Torres back as no one else can seem to score?

by **taff** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:35 pm

I was happy in the haze of a drunken hour but heaven knows Im miserable now

by **dawson99** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:37 pm

I was looking for a job, and then I found a job and heaven knows I'm miserable now

by **supersub** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:41 pm

taff wrote:I was happy in the haze of a drunken hour but heaven knows Im miserable now

It's the end of the world as we know it :laugh:

by **Ciggy** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:44 pm

Arsenal kids where great last night erm.............

by **andy_g** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:44 pm

supersub wrote:
taff wrote:I was happy in the haze of a drunken hour but heaven knows Im miserable now

It's the end of the world as we know it

You win some, lose some, it's all the same to me

by **tonyeh** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:44 pm

NANNY RED wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:You see that article i posted Tony have a read . I think it was aimed at fans like you

How is it "aimed" at fans like me Nan?

Is it so bad to be critical of the team, that I can't point it out?

I thought this was a discussion forum. Were all things concerning Liverpool were to be discussed?

Or is criticism not allowed?

Theres Critisim and there way over the top Tony
We all know the teams not playing well but that not playing well has us sitting top of the prem an i for one am made up. I dont care if the ball is whipped in the net by Carras snot as long as it keeps us top of the league or in very close contention. IMO we are doing our job. Thats what we want we want them to be there or there abouts an they are . Ok not pretty to watch . But were in the rule book does it say you have to play sexy football to be champions. What the others are doing an how there playing doesnt concern me it only concerns me when we play them.

You and others may think what I'm saying is over the top and that's fair enough. I still don't see the need by some people to resort to the nonsense replies though.

I too, am made up over where we (Hey Bob look!

) are. But, I am furious that the oportunities to go truly clear have been missed. It's not only a worry that Liverpool didn't get a goal against Stoke (bar the obvious), Fulham and West Ham, it's the fact that they've (sorry Bob) looked really limp in creating real goal scoring oportunities.

That's serious to me, because it doesn't bode well. The next few games are going to be a knife edge. I think we'll do it against Blackburn, but the others...I just don't know.

I just don't see where the victories are going to come from and I can't be the only one concerned about that surely?

I don't care how Liverpool win games, whether Torres walks it into the net after beating 3 or 4 men or whether it bounces off Kuyt's ärse, how and who scores is not important. But form is and at the moment it's pretty poor.

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