Liverpool FC Forum

by **skatesy** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:23 am

I am just as disappointed as the next fan however we need to look at this a little more objectively and look at the situation over the whole of the season. We are going to have a little but of a rut during the season and I think we are in it right now. The positive thing is that despite this rut, despite the lack of confidence and quality play we are STILL managing to gather points at sit at the top of the table. If we can keep it up, keep working hard and get that confidence back we will stay at the top of the league and go into the new year (when we usually play a lot better) in a very good position to challenge for the title.

by **NiftyNeil** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:37 am

skatesy wrote:I am just as disappointed as the next fan however we need to look at this a little more objectively and look at the situation over the whole of the season. We are going to have a little but of a rut during the season and I think we are in it right now. The positive thing is that despite this rut, despite the lack of confidence and quality play we are STILL managing to gather points at sit at the top of the table. If we can keep it up, keep working hard and get that confidence back we will stay at the top of the league and go into the new year (when we usually play a lot better) in a very good position to challenge for the title.

I was thinking the same. It's not a bad rut to be in is it? A crappy 0-0 draw sending us top of the league. In seasons gone by, a draw like that at the beginning of December was all but putting us out of the championship race.

by **whylongball?** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:42 am

i totally understand the moaning/disappointment...and why not??
But this season all the teams seem to improve and play better so you have to give the credit where its due. West Ham played very well defensively (well plus we didnt play our best) . Anyway, time to cool down guys, i think there is more to come from the team that currently sit at the top of the table.

Edit: You should expect more draws in the future so cool down or bad for your heart lol

by **Igor Zidane** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:47 am

All i'll say is i've never felt so down about going top of the table , mad isn't really . There you go though ,we move on to Blackburn .

by **Ciggy** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:00 am

Im so so dissapionted, hurt, angry, lost for words why we bottled it :down:

by **Scottbot** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:49 am

maypaxvobiscum wrote:i dont understand why people moan about us moaning. we DIDNT TAKE OUR CHANCES. how many chances are we gonna get? its the 3rd time this season that we didnt capitalize on our rivals' failures. yet there are those saying that we should stop moaning cause we're still top bla bla bla.

well i got news, we're still top but the season isnt over yet it could go manure's or chelsea's way. pathetic really. just because we support a club or a sportsperson doesnt mean we cant complain.

Because the criticism on this board this year is GREATER than it was last year when the closest we got to the top of the table was in July before a ball had even been kicked. That's why.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:58 am

Scottbot wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:i dont understand why people moan about us moaning. we DIDNT TAKE OUR CHANCES. how many chances are we gonna get? its the 3rd time this season that we didnt capitalize on our rivals' failures. yet there are those saying that we should stop moaning cause we're still top bla bla bla.

well i got news, we're still top but the season isnt over yet it could go manure's or chelsea's way. pathetic really. just because we support a club or a sportsperson doesnt mean we cant complain.

Because the criticism on this board this year is GREATER than it was last year when the closest we got to the top of the table was in July before a ball had even been kicked. That's why.

maybe its cause of certain players like Dossena or Babel or Ngog. or perhaps everyone is just feeling jumpy and unable to stay calm as we're actually at the top and desperate not to lose the spot so panic kicks in. its been close to 2 decades. there is loads of expectations and excitement for this season seeing how we've been doing so far.

by **Owzat** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:59 am

s@int wrote:As I said BEFORE the game today, I just can't see where the goals are going to come from. We have a defence that has only scored 1 goal all season. A midfield that has hardly scored a goal (excluding Gerrard) and a forward line that couldn't score in a brothel (excluding Torres).

Rafa made a huge mistake buying Keane, he is the wrong type of striker for the way we play. I am not having a go at Keane, he was overpriced but would be a good player FOR SOME OTHER TEAM. We need either a creative second striker/A.midfielder or a clinical striker like Owen. Someone who doesn't miss when we actually create a fkn chance. Babel/Benayoun/N'Gog should only get minutes when we are comfortably in the lead, not when we are chasing the game.

Its a disgrace that when we have an injury to one of the best strikers in the world we have to rely on N'Gog to step up off the bench and try to change a game.

It makes me laugh when people blame Masch for us not scoring, with some of the players we have playing Zidane couldn't set them up with a goal.

Really p!ssed off that we are throwing chance after chance away to take a meaningful lead in the title race . We should be away and clear by now with at least another 7 points under our belt...... Spurs, Fulham and now West Ham.

Agree pretty much. The problem is we don't create enough and when we create something we miss it. Mascherano would be great in a team of Zidanes, probably do nicely at spudz surrounded by flair players, but for us he's a worker in midfield and we need as many players who can pass, create and score in the side as possible because Rafa shys away from a Zidane type.

The exclusion of Mascherano last night was correct in my view, unfortunately Rafa then played Benayoun, inexplicably switched Agger out for Hyypia in, and the rest of the team was pretty p1ss poor. The substitutions were predictable, ineffective and not for the first time Rafa didn't even use all three at his disposal.

I hope Rafa makes Babel sit and watch his performance and asks BABEL to assess his performance and whether he thinks that is the effort of a man deserving a place in the starting line-up. I think most would have brought on Babel for Keane, if Keane was to be first subbed. But I had a feeling Rafa was saving him for his standard subbing of Riera. We have a severe lack of striking options and so we bring on one of those options as a winger!?!?!? I'd like someone to explain to me what plan B was, it's one thing for some to complain about the packed defences we face, but it's funny how the mancs and Chelsea have faced packed defences (in the past) and managed to win.

And yes we are top to those saying noone should 'whine'. We're also in a slump all too familiar

>>>> indicates the spell of games following the (unbeaten) start

08/09 P10 W8 D2 L0 PTS 26 (2.60 pts/game)
>>>> P5 W2 D2 L1 PTS 8 (1.60 pts/game)

07/08 P14 W8 D6 L0 PTS 30 (2.14 pts/game)
>>>> P11 W3 D5 L3 PTS 14 (1.27 pts/game)

02/03 P12 W9 D3 L0 PTS 30 (2.50 pts/game)
>>>> P11 W0 D5 L6 PTS 5 (0.45 pts/game)

96/97 P8 W6 D2 L0 PTS 20 (2.50 pts/game)
>>>> P8 W3 D2 L3 PTS 11 (1.38 pts/game)

Just a few good starts that have been followed by a spell that saw us out of the title race in double quick time. Maybe we're better than some of the direst of patches of form, but that still doesn't mean it's going to be good enough. If we continue to pick up points at our current rate then we'd end on 86 points, we still have to play at the Emirates, old trafford, host Chelsea and Arsenal and have a plethora of sides like, and even better sides than, Stoke, Fulham and West Ham to visit Anfield.

Is this just another false dawn? It's not as if draws at home to Fulham, Stoke and now West Ham are 'one-offs'. For starters there are three already in just EIGHT home games and that's not even halfway through our home fixtures. And secondly we drew SIX at home last season which included Birmingham, Wigan, Tottenham and villa. These are sides we should be beating if we want to be title contenders, not relying on slip ups by Chelsea and the mancs to keep us in touch or one point in front. Maybe they've had their peak and will now have a dip in form, maybe what we've had so far is OUR peak.

So those 'whining' have seen it all before, if you've been Liverpool fans for anything more than a few years you must UNDERSTAND why people are sceptical and expecting it to go t1ts up - even if you don't feel the same way or wish to display some kind of confidence on the outside. We should be looking to make most of home games, the mancs won SEVENTEEN at home last season and already we can't manage that. The average number of home wins for the Premiership Champions (38 game seasons only) is 15, in the past six seasons it is 16.

by **Ciggy** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:05 am

We had something like 13 draws last season and it fecked us up, this season is going the same way, its just not good enough our only threat and best player last night was Sammi Hyypia that says it all.

Same old story defence solid, midfield solid, attack cr@p.

That team was carrying two passengers last night, Keane & Benayoun, I am sorry but I just dont know what the point of Benayoun is he is not good enough to even be part of this team.

Bringing Eggnog on instead of Babel was just bizaar.

by **kazza** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:10 am

by **Toffeehater** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:13 am

Robert Green was immense last night , pity the :censored:

can't play like that against arsenal , chelsea and manure . 2 Draws back to back in the league , if that happens against blackburn , than we're well and truely :censored:

. Rafa stop :censored:

with keane , leave him on for 90 minutes , and play him as a 2nd striker not a target man , he's not tall , not that quick like torres . Next game play babel uptop with keane , if i was babel i'll be well and truely :censored:

as well . Rafa still not giving him games with torres out . FFS , 2 points dropped and we've gotten draws against stoke , fulham and west ham , teams we should have had 9 points from .

Chin up , roll on blackburn .

by **kazza** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:23 am

s@int wrote:As I said BEFORE the game today, I just can't see where the goals are going to come from. We have a defence that has only scored 1 goal all season. A midfield that has hardly scored a goal (excluding Gerrard) and a forward line that couldn't score in a brothel (excluding Torres).

Rafa made a huge mistake buying Keane, he is the wrong type of striker for the way we play. I am not having a go at Keane, he was overpriced but would be a good player FOR SOME OTHER TEAM. We need either a creative second striker/A.midfielder or a clinical striker like Owen. Someone who doesn't miss when we actually create a fkn chance. Babel/Benayoun/N'Gog should only get minutes when we are comfortably in the lead, not when we are chasing the game.

Its a disgrace that when we have an injury to one of the best strikers in the world we have to rely on N'Gog to step up off the bench and try to change a game.

It makes me laugh when people blame Masch for us not scoring, with some of the players we have playing Zidane couldn't set them up with a goal.

Really p!ssed off that we are throwing chance after chance away to take a meaningful lead in the title race . We should be away and clear by now with at least another 7 points under our belt...... Spurs, Fulham and now West Ham.

I must agree Saint. I am disappointed at the result considering we should have a good points lead over Chelsea and we don't and Utd are closing the gap.

I thought that West Ham were very organised in defense and although they surprised me with their dicipline, that was definitely another two points lost. I am getting more and more disappointed with Keane as our second striker as he seems out of his depths. I do not buy this wrong type of player business as he has been missing sitters. He was never as good as his price tag but I think he is better than his playing for us so far would suggest. In any case, we are a point clear of Chelsea and we would have gladly taken that at the beginning of the season so we should not lose perspective.

Gerrard was trying too hard but I thought Yossi was our best player (despite what others are saying, he ran all over the field and looked the most likely to unlock the defense.

by **Effes** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:44 am

When I started goping the game (mid 80's) we were winning the league most seasons so maybe
my expectations are too high.
But the thing I remember was, whenever we had a naff draw at home to a team we should
have beaten - we always put it right with the next 3-4 home games.

We always put it to bed the next few home games, winning 2 nil, 3 nil etc.

What I wanna know is - what has Rafa changed from the Stoke draw?

We played last night exactly the same way we played Stoke - so for me, Rafa takes most the blame.

Time for Rafa to get his thinking cap on.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:47 am

You have to take the positives out of the game - Top of the table and a clean sheet, and possibly Hyypia had a decent game (albeit the missed chances)

But the negatives should get a mention also. I think the biggest negative was the team selection and substitution choices -

Benayoun is in the same bracket as Lucas - average, not a player who should be playing for Liverpool

Ngog - A good prospect but never should be a replacement for Keane, surely with 15 mins left you put him on as well as Keane?

Side note: Crouch would of been ideal last night with Keane.

by **Bam** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:57 am

Sh.it on a stick !

Yet again we fail to break a team down Its starting to get a little tedious.

I dont blame Rafa for the subs, infact I was quite glad to see Riera go off. He had no impact on the game, couldnt take his man on and rarely created anything. If I had my way Kuyt should of gone off too, there is noway in hell that bloke is a striker. He produces much better performances out wide on the right in a trio. I also wasnt dissapointed Keane went off, even though N'Gog hasnt established himself I was glad Rafa tried to change something. Maybe Babel should of gone upfront alongside the Frenchman, with Yossi switched over to the left, Gerrard on the right and Mascha in the middle.

Who knows, Rafa's subs werent that bad, infact they've been pretty similar all season, why are people complaining now ?

It was our team that were bad if anything, yet again they crumble under pressure and fail to beat teams their expected to beat.

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