Liverpool FC Forum

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:11 am

160 dead. 327 injured.
attacks still going on in the hotel.
a women's hospital, railway station, and cafe were also attacked but i have no updated on any of those.
the Jewish centre has been cleared and 5 of the hostages have been killed however a young child...like few months old, has survived the attacks after the nanny took him and ran out. its said that the baby had bloody stains on his clothes.

by **Kharhaz** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:17 am

LFC2007 wrote:I don't disagree that 'Muslim terrorists' constitute a major problem on a global scale. I'm disagreeing with your assertions that almost every follower of the Islamic faith is a 'Muslim terrorist', and that every act of terrorism these days is perpetrated by a Muslim. If you're looking for balance in your views, don't make grossly inaccurate statements like the two you just have.

Fair enough. But it isnt it time the peace loving muslims made a stand and make it clear the Muslim religion isnt about terrorism. Isnt it time those muslims who can make a difference do? They have a bad name, isnt it time those who have a firmer grasp of there religion have more of a say?

by **Kharhaz** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:38 am

Or would I be right in thinking they are staying quite because they fear for there lives?

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:13 am

groups who may be behind these attacks.

Lashkar-e-Toiba (Army of the Pure), formed in 1990, probably in Afghanistan. It is based near Lahore in Pakistan and is bent on forcing India out of Kashmir. It has also said it wants to restore Islamic rule over India. Indian intelligence sources believe the group has backers within Pakistan's ISI. It also has historic links to both the Taliban and al-Qaeda. India's National Security Adviser M.K. Narayanan said in 2006 that Lashkar-e-Toiba is part of the "al-Qaeda compact" and is "as big and as omnipotent" as Osama bin Laden's group.

Jaish-e-Mohammed, which emerged in early 2000 under the leadership of Maulana Masood Azhar, who had been serving time in an Indian jail for Kashmir-related militancy but was released in exchange for Indian passengers on an Indian Airlines jet who had been hijacked to Afghanistan. The group was responsible for an attack on India's parliament in December 2001 that brought India and Pakistan to the brink of war. Jaish-e-Mohammed is believed to have close links to al-Qaeda and bin Laden through a religious school in Karachi.

The Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) is less focused on Kashmir than either Lashkar-e-Toiba or Jaish-e-Mohammed. Indian authorities say the group, formed in 1977, has close connections to a pocket of Chicago's Muslim community. Its fortunes have waxed and waned over the past three decades, but the group has recently become more active again. SIMI blamed the 9/11 attacks on Israelis and, at the same time, expressed admiration for bin Laden and his war against the West. Some Indian experts believe that Indian Mujahedin is simply a renamed SIMI.

In the past two years, the groups listed above have sometimes been joined in operations by the Bangladeshi arm of a group known as Harkat-ul-Jehadi Islami. The group is believed to be behind twin blasts in Hyderabad in 2007. Formed in 1992 in Dhaka, the Bangladeshi group has become a lot stronger in India since 2002.

by **Bam** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:09 am

The Western world on here seems very much 'damned if they do, and damned if they dont' at times on here by the "supposedly balanced" mob or even the PC brigade. I just want to briefly touch on the "organ" thread, where the people gave their opinions that it was inhumane and morally wrong as human beings to harvest organs from third World countries. Firstly I'd like to clear out the way that I agree with those people who said that.

So moving on now to other places on the globe like Iraq and Afghanistan where the likes of America and Britain have been heavily involved and critised for doing something at the end of the day which is morally right. People on here were implying that the Western World hasnt forfilled its obligation in helping out the third World enough, which I personally disagree with. We havent stood by for two decades and doing nothing, the British public alone and other organsitaions like Charity's have shelled out Billions. And while I'm here I'll quickly touch on the subject of colonised nations in Africa who have since got their independance from Britain and other European nations, have quickly turned around and become corrupt states leaving their own people to die and starve while the aid of finances from Western nations never filtered through their now independant governments. Zimbabwe and Kenya are just two that spring to mind and like it or not some of these African leaders/dictators havent got a scooby doo on how to run a civilised government or country. While we taught the Kenyans how to farm, and grow crops and lead an honest civilised life, thats since gone out the window once certain countries got their independance.

I drifted right off topic sorry about that, back to the middleast where do-gooders in Westernised countries and on these boards openly critise the likes of America and Britain for intervening in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan. So what, do you all expect the Western World to sit back and do nothing while the likes of Sadaam Hussain mass murders his very own people ? Of course not because its morally wrong to watch thousands of innocent civillians being murdered by an evil dictator. Then the next critical point in that by the PC brigade is that we went in there to also secure oil, which was really our main aim all along. So what, doesnt the ends justify the means ? While in the process, ousting evil tryrants and dictators who slaughter their very own people, surely its morally wrong to stand by and watch this happen. I can gurantee you now had we never gone in their to oust Hussain, it would be the same PC brigade who would be stoning The British and Amercan governments for doing nothing.

Same with Afghan, is it right that Taliban leaders are taking young boys away from their families to train them in becoming the next suicide bomber ? If the families resist the Talibans approach for handing their kids over the all shot dead. Those people are living in fear over there and dont want their kids brainwashed with extremism. An extremism which is to blame for the London Bombings, the twin towers, Mumbai, Bali and the list goes on ..... Millions of innocent people have died in the Western World because of these people. Yet the lefto Pinko brigade still want us to pull out of there, what do you think will happen if we pull out, do you think all these idiotic fanatical Muslims will suddenly stop. Yeah right, then what are we supposed to do negotiate with the brain washed rag heads, no chance.

Then some members on here moan when Muslims are a tarred with Terroism, so fecking what. Its like all the English are still tarred with football hooliganism, do you see any Muslims in England putting that sterotype about us Brits firmly in doubt. Of course not and while the two in context arent compairable in princible its the same. The same with my ancestors who've done terrible things in history in all corners of the globe, I do get fed up and defend my corner when we're labelled as 'barbaric' but do you see any Muslims jumping to the defence of us saying ' That was hundreds of years ago, this White lad here had no influence over what happened then' No you dont. Like it or not people are mostly stereotyped and who can blame Joe Public for honestlt thinking all or most Muslims are terroists especailly when people in London are giving Public speach's accusing the West of all sorts and branding us 'infedels' and recruiting young asians in the fight against the West.

Our own Prime ministers at times are damned if they do and damned if they dont, and wjhatever they do its morally wrong. Sometimes you just cannot win with the PC-Do-gooder brigade. It will be very interesting to see what Obama has in plans for the middleast, I'll guarentee you now there will be certain quarters of the 'bleedin-hearts bridge' on here critising him which ever way he goes about it.

by **Bam** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:26 am

A MUSLIM forklift truck driver is suing Tesco because he was expected to handle alcohol.

Mohammed Ahmed, 32, said he was unaware that the retail giant sold booze.
He added that coming into contact with drink was against his beliefs.

An industrial tribunal heard how Mr Ahmed began at Tesco’s distribution depot in Lichfield, Staffordshire, in September last year but left after eight months.

He told the tribunal that he had never visited a Tesco store even though there were three in Derby where he lived.

But he admitted to shopping in other supermarkets and knowing that alcohol had been on sale.

"It is in our religion that we are not allowed to handle alcohol". He added." In the UK there are equal opportunities that should protect me.”

Mr Ahmed is due to find out this week if his claim for racial discrimination, victimisation and harassment has been successful.

:no

Its probably not against his morals though to strap a load of C4 around his waist and walk into a shopping center and pull the pin. The pi.ss taking sponge !

Fit in or f.uck off !

by **andy_g** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:11 am

bam, you seem to be more outraged by the pinko leftie, bleeding heart, do-gooder brigade than by anything terrorists, governments or any one else who has got it really wrong. i don't know why you're getting your knickers in such a twist imagining the ways in which these arch enemies of yours are going to be thinking

i don't think that anyone is expecting that extremist and fundamentalist behaviour will stop if we pull out of afghanistan and iraq, but i do thnk that many people are realising that we've been going the wrong way about dealing with it. it's fairly obvious that the military actions in these countries have led to an exponential rise in terrorist attacks and the recruitment of even more young and fanatical fighters. the problem is that we've come so far down the road its very difficult to see how we can get out of the situation in a positive way.

the continued danger lies in the lazy and general assumptions that so many people are making. too many people in the west believing that all muslims are at the very least potential suicide bombers (such as the ridiculous posts by karhaz earlier on) and too many muslims believing that us westerners are filthy infidel who only want to destroy their culture. with such entrenched and uninformed views on both sides there is a snowball in hell's chance of any kind of prompt and lasting solution, very little chance of moving forward at all. joe public has as much opportunity as anybody to inform himself about the historical and present situation but the sad fact is that most of the time its a lot easier to cling to the nice easily packaged stereotypes delivered by the s*n and the daily mail.

by **aCe'** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:59 am

Kharhaz wrote:Ive just sat here for the past half hour or so (EDIT: reading this thread) and the only thing I got was a question from Emerald Red was "Why is every muslim being blamed for being a terrorist?"

The answer is clear, because every event in which innocent people have lost there lives en masse have been Muslim related. In that it doesnt give the muslim religion a fair go because "Innocent lives lost" and "Muslim terrorists" are going hand in hand more regular here and now.

This thread lost its way and became a history one in which colonial topics were being discussed. Its not about history or propagandas, its about now.

Id say for every one true muslim, there are 5 muslim terrorists. There is a time for political correctness and human rights, and theres a time to just open your eyes and see what is happening.

Your post is a joke and quite honestly so are you..
Muslim terrorists are obviously a minority and the fact that every Islamic nation or for all that matter every reputable Islamic figure in the world has condemned terrorism and terrorist actions is obviously evidence of that..
Every post you made after the one I quoted just goes on to show how ignorant you are.. Islamic figures HAVE come out to condemn every single act of terrorism that was made in the name of Islam..
Its not about religion as much as it is about the agendas those terrorists have… obviously they give their religion a bad name but then again you need to realize that terrorism has been around for ages and its not really about how the terrorists justify their actions much as it is about why they do what they do..
You’ve had terrorists killing for land, money, glory, religion..etc etc
You cant say every Afghani is a terrorist or every muslim is a terrorist… going by your logic, at some point in history every American was a terrorist and every Brit, French man, Spaniard..etc etc would have been a terrorist…

You’re the one who needs to open their eyes sunshine cause the way I see it you know fck all about this whole thing and yet you still seem to have a strong opinion about it…

by **LegBarnes** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:17 am

I am worried , wierd story My father and my grandfahter was going to be in that hotel on sunday Its a god send they wasn't there when this happened.

Story is my nan died of cancer about 2 months ago so my father and grandfather chose to go on holiday for 3 months to kind of get away from every thing its been hard on my grandfather as she died 2 weeks after there 60th wedding anny.

But they still going out there But just a little later I think they are going Dubai now for week before to break it up.

Fingers crossed they are ok.

by **Number 9** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:17 am

Kharhaz wrote:Id say for every one true muslim, there are 5 muslim terrorists.

Bit of a silly thing to come off with mate!Firstly the ratio is miles off,if you think there are 5 times more extremists than normal decent peaceful Muslim people your head is up yer rear!

There are far more Muslim people who just want to live and let live,yeah they have their religion,we dont have to agree with it,but most people have the intelligence to understand that the world is actually quite big and everyone cannot be the same.
I dont have anything against Muslim people but I despise the twisted fundamentalists with a passion!
I've watched videos of them hacking off peoples heads simply because they are British,holding the head in the air chanting as if its been done in the name of Allah!They are Fu*king animals mate,they dont deserve to live.That is what extremists do.To say that there are 5 times more like that than normal decent people that practice the religion is just wrong...cause there just is'nt.

My only problem with the decent Muslim people is that I feel they could condemn the terrorists more.I feel more could be done from the Muslim community to firmly distance themselves from the extremists.It would be good if they spoke up every once in a while and simply said"they do not represent us or our beliefs"
But then again maybe im wrong,perhaps they feel that saying nothing is keeping dignity?
Just my opinion though,but I'd like to here it once in a while!

by **aCe'** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:48 am

Number 9 wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:Id say for every one true muslim, there are 5 muslim terrorists.

Bit of a silly thing to come off with mate!Firstly the ratio is miles off,if you think there are 5 times more extremists than normal decent peaceful Muslim people your head is up yer rear!

There are far more Muslim people who just want to live and let live,yeah they have their religion,we dont have to agree with it,but most people have the intelligence to understand that the world is actually quite big and everyone cannot be the same.
I dont have anything against Muslim people but I despise the twisted fundamentalists with a passion!
I've watched videos of them hacking off peoples heads simply because they are British,holding the head in the air chanting as if its been done in the name of Allah!They are Fu*king animals mate,they dont deserve to live.That is what extremists do.To say that there are 5 times more like that than normal decent people that practice the religion is just wrong...cause there just is'nt.

My only problem with the decent Muslim people is that I feel they could condemn the terrorists more.I feel more could be done from the Muslim community to firmly distance themselves from the extremists.It would be good if they spoke up every once in a while and simply said"they do not represent us or our beliefs"
But then again maybe im wrong,perhaps they feel that saying nothing is keeping dignity?
Just my opinion though,but I'd like to here it once in a while!

but they do.. thats the thing..
maybe if you take 5 mins to research the whole thing instead of coming out and saying they dont you would know...

by **Bam** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:51 am

bam, you seem to be more outraged by the pinko leftie, bleeding heart, do-gooder brigade than by anything terrorists

To be Frank Andy I am, its these b.loody people and their views who comfort, side with, handout, ammend laws to give them more rights than our very own and sympathese in every asepct with British Muslims, asylum seekers, gypsies and so on.

Read the post below mine about the Muslim suing Tescos because he has to stack Alcohol. Most Muslims have corner shops and sell booze 24/7, yet this sponger thinks he's able to sue Tescos because of his religous views.

If these Pinko jobs worths werent so hellbent on making foreign people and Muslims so comfortable in the UK, you probably wouldnt of heard that some of the terroists in Mumbai were British born.

by **Sabre** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:04 pm

Barry says interesting things in that post

There are far more Muslim people who just want to live and let live,yeah they have their religion,we dont have to agree with it,but most people have the intelligence to understand that the world is actually quite big and everyone cannot be the same.
I dont have anything against Muslim people but I despise the twisted fundamentalists with a passion!
I've watched videos of them hacking off peoples heads simply because they are British,holding the head in the air chanting as if its been done in the name of Allah!They are Fu*king animals mate,they dont deserve to live.That is what extremists do.To say that there are 5 times more like that than normal decent people that practice the religion is just wrong...cause there just is'nt.

I agree this almost word by word, I too share the determination to fight the terrorist, and I too hate those beheadings and acts of hatred against brittish, american, or whatever.

My only problem with the decent Muslim people is that I feel they could condemn the terrorists more.I feel more could be done from the Muslim community to firmly distance themselves from the extremists.It would be good if they spoke up every once in a while and simply said"they do not represent us or our beliefs"
But then again maybe im wrong,perhaps they feel that saying nothing is keeping dignity?
Just my opinion though,but I'd like to here it once in a while!

I disagree this, but then I'm talking about the muslim community of my country, not yours.

In my country, muslims speak up every time a terrorist attack occurs, ANOTHER THING, though, is that the media do not give them big headlines to these opinions.

by **andy_g** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:19 pm

Bam wrote:If these Pinko jobs worths werent so hellbent on making foreign people and Muslims so comfortable in the UK, you probably wouldnt of heard that some of the terroists in Mumbai were British born.

aaaahhhh... now i get it. its the efforts of people to peacefully and positively integrate the cultures of others that turns them into anti western terrorists. thanks for clearing that one up.

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:24 pm

Kharhaz wrote:Okay, weve established im cack at maths, but my point remains, there are more muslim terrorists than there are muslim preachers. The reason why we associate muslims with terrorist acts is simply because every terrorist act these days is caused by a muslim.

You're living on cloud 9, no offense, if you think this is true. Like I say, the news doesn't report half of it. What about the dozens of kids that are killed each week in the Palestine by Israeli state snipers? I class that as an act of terrorism coated in red tape. It's a state troop doing it, so that makes it OK.

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