Liverpool FC Forum

by **puroresu** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:18 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
club_Levis wrote:People are still ranting about how poor Cisse was/is with little footballing brain just like Babel. I wonder how he cant stop scoring at Sunderland.

You answered your own question there. Cisse's found his level at Sunderland because plenty of teams will fancy their chances and get forward, giving him the room he needs to run in behind. I find it interesting that his dream move back to Marseilles hasn't worked out--further evidence that he's nowhere near as good as the hype suggested (and that some still believe). He had some skill and was lightning quick but, like Babel, he made some daft decisions and had a tendency to get mardy if things weren't falling for him. Like Cisse before him, I don't think Babel's a terrible player but I have serious doubts about his suitability for our side given our style of play and the way most opponents set out their stall against us. I'm happy if he comes off the bench as an impact sub but he's nowhere near ready to be a regular starter--either out wide or up top. And, since this is Liverpool FC and not Ryan Babel FC, I'd rather we not devote all of our time and energy trying to train or 'man manage' him into readiness, like some seem to be suggesting. If he can't find it within himself to make the step up and he's not content to be an impact sub, then he can find another club as far as I'm concerned.

It worked out fine at OM. They didnt choose to get rid of him. He wanted to go to England as his Wife and Kid couldnt settle in France. In fact anyone who watches Lique 1 can see that OM could do with Cisse.

Babel has talent there is no doubt about it. Rafa signed him and must of saw something to spend they money we did. Money that no other club would of paid. From day 1 i didnt understand the LW position as his not left footed and he never played that role at Ajax.

by **stmichael** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:16 pm

The main difference is Ferguson and Wenger could probably play Babel with no repercussions. Infact I know for a fact that Wenger was interested in Babel before we signed him but felt the price was too high. Ok he paid about the same for Walcott but Wenger plays him as he knows he can wait for him to get it right.

Given time I am sure that Babel would excel at Arsenal or United quicker than he has here as we rely heavily on tactics and work rate rather than expression.

by **maguskwt** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:35 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
club_Levis wrote:People are still ranting about how poor Cisse was/is with little footballing brain just like Babel. I wonder how he cant stop scoring at Sunderland.

You answered your own question there. Cisse's found his level at Sunderland because plenty of teams will fancy their chances and get forward, giving him the room he needs to run in behind. I find it interesting that his dream move back to Marseilles hasn't worked out--further evidence that he's nowhere near as good as the hype suggested (and that some still believe). He had some skill and was lightning quick but, like Babel, he made some daft decisions and had a tendency to get mardy if things weren't falling for him. Like Cisse before him, I don't think Babel's a terrible player but I have serious doubts about his suitability for our side given our style of play and the way most opponents set out their stall against us. I'm happy if he comes off the bench as an impact sub but he's nowhere near ready to be a regular starter--either out wide or up top. And, since this is Liverpool FC and not Ryan Babel FC, I'd rather we not devote all of our time and energy trying to train or 'man manage' him into readiness, like some seem to be suggesting. If he can't find it within himself to make the step up and he's not content to be an impact sub, then he can find another club as far as I'm concerned.

what's worse is that people can tell that Cisse's a striker. Same can't be said about Babel...

by **Rorschach26** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:12 pm

Babel has no right 2 complain he just hasnt justified a statring position no matter what position that is

he needs 2 stop complaining hes 21 & in the first 16 of 1 of the best teams in world football

agree about Kuyt his touch is class hes back 2 the old dirk be4 his dad passed away except now hes scoring

i can c him getting 20+ goals this season 4 us & going on 2 be the 20/20 player he was in holland

love dirk never gives less then 100% & if i were babel id look no further then kuyt 4 having the right attitude...i also wouldnt have bills up 2 my ears

by **tubby** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:43 pm

stmichael wrote:The main difference is Ferguson and Wenger could probably play Babel with no repercussions. Infact I know for a fact that Wenger was interested in Babel before we signed him but felt the price was too high. Ok he paid about the same for Walcott but Wenger plays him as he knows he can wait for him to get it right.

Given time I am sure that Babel would excel at Arsenal or United quicker than he has here as we rely heavily on tactics and work rate rather than expression.

You make it sound like any player Utd or Arsenal are interested in or sign are always top draw. (Jeffers, Veron, Forlan and Reyes). It was probably more likley he was put of singing him as he didnt think he was worth it given the price tag.

by **redhayesy** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:22 pm

he may be unhappy at the moment, but that"s no excuse for his recent lack of attitude! i"m only interested in players who are prepared to fight for their place in the sqaud, reguardless of age, how much they cost etc, he knew the score when he signed for us,if he ever thought for one moment he would be first choice or walk straight into the side then he has created his own problems mentally.

please don"t get me wrong i quite rate babel, but as i say his attitude is in question at the moment & if he isn"t prepared to fight for his place then he"s better off elsewhere.

if he"s picked to play on the wing or in the middle he should just grab the opportunity to give raffa a selection headache, rather than make raffa"s mind up that for the time being he is & will continue to be a squad/bit part player. as i said before his performance against spurs was shocking, & has created his own fate at the moment.

by **tubby** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:48 pm

Hopefully we can keep him happy till the end of the season then get rid of him. It will be worse if we end up with a moody player midway through the season especially if someone gets injured. He will be gone for sure though come the summer.

by **kalos** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:55 pm

He can go - I find it unbelievable that people think that moving him to striker will instantly give him a first touch and a fotballing brain..and on the first page someone said he needs to improve his shooting accuracy - STRIKER? If you want a younger Cisse with fractionally more dribbling ability then fine

He has mid table ability -barely

- Him and Dossena and Lucas should be sold ASAP for anything we can get -all 3 are a liability when on the pitch, give the ball away and do s*d all to contribute 80-90% of the time..(Dossena is by far the worst)

If we win number 19 it willbe despite them not because of any maor contribution.

by **aCe'** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:42 am

bavlondon wrote:
stmichael wrote:The main difference is Ferguson and Wenger could probably play Babel with no repercussions. Infact I know for a fact that Wenger was interested in Babel before we signed him but felt the price was too high. Ok he paid about the same for Walcott but Wenger plays him as he knows he can wait for him to get it right.

Given time I am sure that Babel would excel at Arsenal or United quicker than he has here as we rely heavily on tactics and work rate rather than expression.

You make it sound like any player Utd or Arsenal are interested in or sign are always top draw. (Jeffers, Veron, Forlan and Reyes). It was probably more likley he was put of singing him as he didnt think he was worth it given the price tag.

good post stmichael...

Now Bav i dont think he meant every signing they make is top drawer cause obviously thats not true... Given the chance and the right guidance, a young player is always more likely to succeed... At Manutd and Arsenal younger players seem to more ... well 'taken care of'...

Theyr given a chance and theyr trained in a way to get the most of their however limited skills... Under Benitz i dont seem to remember any young player coming on and making any sort of impact... ElZhar ? welll we'v seen him a few times but never seems like he'll be getting a game in the league anytime soon... as if Rafa doesnt believe in him enough to start him... dont know much about him really but he seems to have potential... Same with Darby... and he cant get a game even with our 2 main rightbacks out of the side...

Veron, Forlan and Reyes... all very very good players, 'top drawer' as you would call it... I though Reyes did very well at Arsenal and Veron wasnt half as bad as many made him out to be when he was at Manutd.. a bit overpriced maybe but he did a job for them and was one of the best in the world ... Forlan would probably start for most top clubs in Europe today.. hes an excellent forward... Manutd got him for wat? 6mill or something.. hes probably worth 3 or 4 times as much now... hes been decent for them and the only reason they sold him was because they were bringin Rooney ...

by **LFC2007** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:22 am

I too would like to see one or two of the youngsters coming through, but I'm not convinced the quality's there (at least of the ones I've seen play first team action). Or, it may be that there is some element of truth in the reports that Parry/Rafa/Hamberg/Ablett are at odds with each other - perhaps to the detriment of the youth setup.

Then again, in recent times, I can't seem to think of all these youngsters Ferguson's brought through. I don't agree with the comparisons between Babel and Nani either - I think Nani's a better player in every respect. So, for me, that's exclusively an issue of quality, not man management or coaching ability.

Chelsea have brought through....the cheap youngster Schevchenko, nurtured from £30m to f*ck all in three years.

Arsenal, we know about. Wenger's whole philosophy is heavily focussed on scouting out the best youngsters and giving them a chance...but arguably at the expense of addressing more immediate concerns relating to the strength of his first eleven.

About these rumours that Wenger was interested in signing Babel. They may well have been true, but I find it difficult to believe in light of what I've seen of him thus far. Wenger tends to sign players who are technically very good. He likes intelligent players who are comfortable on the ball, can receive with both feet and who show good movement. Babel doesn't fit that profile. He only has a right foot, his first touch is heavy, he's very static when he receives the ball, he often runs straight into players and generally he loses possession too easily. The only attributes he possesses which loosely fit in with a typical Wenger signing are his pace, the odd bit of trickery and his inability to tackle.

I'd like to know what actually makes people believe Babel has the potential to improve. It's all god saying he has it, but what does he have? What exactlty makes people think he'll be a top quality player in the future, if he's afforded first team opportunities?

by **tonyeh** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:49 am

aCe' wrote:... Under Benitz i dont seem to remember any young player coming on and making any sort of impact... ElZhar ? welll we'v seen him a few times but never seems like he'll be getting a game in the league anytime soon... as if Rafa doesnt believe in him enough to start him... dont know much about him really but he seems to have potential... Same with Darby... and he cant get a game even with our 2 main rightbacks out of the side...

The problem is, is that Liverpool have been chasing games too often or hanging on by the skin of their teeth.

There hasn't been too many games where Rafa has had the comfort to bring on the new blood for any meaningful length of time.

That El Zhar lad does look good though, and for a period of time he seemed to be the only one trying anything in the Carling Cup game aganst Spurs.

The others, I can't really make any judgement on...as I haven't seen them (bar the friendlies in the Summer).

by **tubby** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:58 am

Dont forget the screamer he scored against Cardiff too. Im not sure if El Zhar is Prem quality but out of all the kids he seems like the only one to want to give it a go. Homegrown talent is rare these days and when you do find it you have to pay big bucks for it. Money we don't have. Although Wenger seems to be the only one able to secure such talent for cheap. Where did that Wilshire play before?

by **tonyeh** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:04 am

bavlondon wrote:Dont forget the screamer he scored against Cardiff too. Im not sure if El Zhar is Prem quality but out of all the kids he seems like the only one to want to give it a go. Homegrown talent is rare these days and when you do find it you have to pay big bucks for it. Money we don't have. Although Wenger seems to be the only one able to secure such talent for cheap. Where did that Wilshire play before?

Don't think he played anywhere. He's been at the Arsenal youngsters since he was a schoolkid.

In fact he's still a schoolkid. He's only 17 or something.

by **huang xiangwen** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:14 am

it's incredible.Ryan has no excuse to leave.he will acquire more glory at Anfield.Unless he wants to be the second michael owen.

by **Owzat** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:09 pm

bavlondon wrote:Dont forget the screamer he scored against Cardiff too. Im not sure if El Zhar is Prem quality but out of all the kids he seems like the only one to want to give it a go. Homegrown talent is rare these days and when you do find it you have to pay big bucks for it. Money we don't have. Although Wenger seems to be the only one able to secure such talent for cheap. Where did that Wilshire play before?

He did well in a couple of subs appearances early in the season, contributed if not directly to the results. Of some of the kids around he looks the most likely to perform, not so sure about some of the others like N'Gog

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