Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:38 pm

JoeTerp wrote:If we name the exact same side against Spurs as we did against Chelsea than wont it be just as if they are caring that momentum from the Chelsea match and there was just an intense intrasquad friendly during midweek (only it was against pompey instead of other LFC players)

Possibly Joe yes, and that's probably what we'll do. Will we be able to pick up where we left off? I hope so, but I ask this question. Had we spanked Pompey 4-0 with exactly the same team which had beaten Chelsea, would we be more or less likely to regain the thread and play with authority against Tottenham? I think most people would magree we would have more opportunity to play well and win with auithority, but then again we can't as we know play the same team in every single match.

The ideal for me would have been to make a maximum of two changes, and only those players who genuinely needed to rest. Keane I don't think is unfir to the point where he couldn't play, soi I'd have played him. That would have meant we could play the exact same midfield but rested Riera, bringing Babel in. You'd then have the option if you wanted of resting Alonso (as Masherano obviously didn't need to rest) or Carragher (Aggerobviously didn't need a rest).

Hopefully though, we can pick up where we left off a week ago and win in London. My point is merely that we have made that process more difficult than we needed to, by giving away the potential for increasing momentum.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:38 pm

The manc's made five changes the other night and cruised to victory, whereas we made four changes and struggled.

If we had a similar level of quality in reserve and made three or four changes, AND selected a balanced side (i.e. players in familiar positions) I've no doubt we would've performed significantly better. I don't think the Manc's 'got away with it' by making the changes either.

by **GYBS** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:42 pm

In what way did we really struggle last night ? spoken to people who went to the game and been said that if it wasnt for james we would of won by at least two more goals plus a great didtch tackle from distin as well . controlled the game for the majority of the time and they were restricted to one effort on target . we created plenty of chances as well , it wasnt as bad as has been made out to be imo. as for the changes hyypia was brought in for obvious reason against crouch and nearly scored himself - pennant done ok in last two performances before last night and babel was very good against chelsea . lucas played a decent solid game and we didnt loose much through the middle last night . was it really that bad last night ?

by **bigmick** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:54 pm

LFC2007 wrote:The manc's made five changes the other night and cruised to victory, whereas we made four changes and struggled.

If we had a similar level of quality in reserve and made three or four changes, AND selected a balanced side (i.e. players in familiar positions) I've no doubt we would've performed significantly better.

They did LFC, and no doubt at some point once their first choice players come back Chelsea will do the same. There are a couple of differences though between the Mancs, Chelsea and us.

Firstly, pretty much everyone would agree that they have a much stronger squad, both teams. Now I'm no pro-rotationalist as everyone knows, but when the pro's say "yes but rotation is OK when you bring top quality players in as replacements" there is obviously something in that. Rest keane and play Torres is obviously entirely different to rest Keane and play N'gog. It's still not OK in my book, but it's certainly more OK. I don't particularly like rotation over and above the absolutely necessary regardless of who you bring in, but it's obviously not quite so bad if you ahve quality replacements.

The other difference is that both Chelsea and Man Utd know for an absolute fact that they will challenge for the title. Why? because they always do. I've said on another thread that if we were 8 points behind Man Utd as opposed to the other way round, we'd be as good as gone. If we were in Arsenals spot, we'd be gone (which coincidently so are they). Man Utd aren't gone though as title contenders, far from it. Neither were Chelsea last season when a mile back.

What they have which we don't have yet is a collective belief. They believe in themselves, and everybody else believes in them as well. What we don't have, not yet, is an abiltiy to "steal the blinds" and pick up easy wins against teams which come into matches already beaten. We won't get that by beating Pompey 1-0 and playing a half stength team, we need to crank up the momentum to it's max and keep the wagon rolling as long as possible, instill a bit of fear into the rest of the league.

People say you can't win the title in October, and they're right. I reckon though that our very best chance of winning it, is blitzing the league until Christmas while we have as many of our first choice players fit as possible. We have some very winnable games right now, so lets win them and not feck about. If we get to the turn of the year five points ahead of Chelsea, and seven points ahead of the Mancs all well and good. What we absolutely musn't do IMHO is get caught up delayed gazelling, getting ahead of ourselves and trying to make sure players are "fresh" for the big matches at the end of the season when if we don't shape ourselves there won't be any.

Man Utd rotated for sure. They didn't win at Chelsea in their previous game though, they were fortunate to draw at Everton. It might even be that Ferguson weasn't rotating, maybe he dropped a couple (that is if that happens anymore).

by **Number 9** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:56 pm

LFC2007 wrote:The manc's made five changes the other night and cruised to victory, whereas we made four changes and struggled.

If we had a similar level of quality in reserve and made three or four changes, AND selected a balanced side (i.e. players in familiar positions) I've no doubt we would've performed significantly better.

True mate!
Its the depth of our squad that bothers me and TBH worries me slightly for the season ahead!
We have a great starting 11,but there are very very few,if any in our squad that we can bring on who are "as good" consistently as who we would all prefer on the pitch.We dont have that luxury where as UTD and Chelsea do!

Thats why I can understand Rafas thinking last night.The season is long and we are only about a quarter way through!
Alarm bells are going off in my head.Look at Arsenal last season I keep thinking,they were great then just burnt out as their best players were overused and at the end their tanks were empty and they faded to fu'ck all!
Rafa has to and will rest certain players at times or we will suffer for it later on I feel.

The big question is can he get it right,can he find the balance?Rest the right players at the right time.Dont rotate it too often and we will be OK.
This game on Sat will tell a story,it will be interesting to see if he puts out his best 11.Last night as I said i understood why he done what he done although I was still shocked a bit.I just hope he does not feel that because we won with a weaker team we can do it all the time cause we cant and wont!
Get the best available 11 out and thump Spurs.then after that I dont care if he rotates 6 players on Tuesday night!

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:00 pm

He'll play his Best 11 on Saturday, Baz--no question about it. I expect last night's line-up was concocted with the notion that we were at home against a capable but limited team who'd just been blindsided by a change of manager. Rafa probably felt that it was as good a time as any to give a few players a game, while resting some others for a second important away match inside a week down sarf. See, I can completely see the rationale to the selection but still can't help feel that it was 2 changes too many.

by **Number 9** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:01 pm

I just dont want him to get the taste for it again!!

by **LFC2007** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:22 pm

bigmick wrote:...Man Utd rotated for sure. They didn't win at Chelsea in their previous game though, they were fortunate to draw at Everton. It might even be that Ferguson weasn't rotating, maybe he dropped a couple (that is if that happens anymore).

I don't know about that mate, they played Chelsea 8 games ago and since then have had something of a revival, winning 7 out of 8. In that period, they've made an average of 4 changes a game. This coming after that early period where they suffered badly with injuries. I also would't really say they fortunate against Everton, a draw was fair value and Everton played particularly well.

by **Sabre** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:31 pm

Certainly Bigmick, you have posted interesting notions during these years in this thread. As Igor Zidane commented the other day, it's nice people softening their positions and no doubt I have learned things from you on this thread

No doubt a few people will pick up on my apparent sceptisism with regard to whether the players were carrying knocks or not. Cue the "why should we trust a dildo seller when we have the word of the clubs doctors to go on?". The answer is obviously that you shouldn't, I'm merely giving my opinion that there's knocks and there's knocks. Keane in particular was a disappointing omission for me, and should he be gazelling around the pitch at his old stomping ground at the weekend I won't be able to get away from the feeling that he should have played on Wednesday, and perhaps scored his first League goal.

Certainly, one of the things most difficult to swallow for me is this skepticism. Of course there are knocks and there are knocks, but why should we be skeptical when Rafa rests Alonso the first day or rests Keane and Riera saying he has a knock?

I mean that Rafa has shown he's stubborn enough and he has ignored the media a long time, he doesn't seem to be the type who needs pretexts to do what he wants.

I don't understand that skepticism, because then assumptions like Rafa changing for the sake of changing, or Rafa trying to prove clever are accepted as valid opinions and apparently logical. It seems to me much more logical that he rests player for physical reasons so that's why I don't understand well the skepticism.

Other than that paragraph I wanted to "pick", the rest of your post is good as usual.

by **GYBS** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:34 pm

so only me who thought we didnt actually play that bad last nigt then

by **Igor Zidane** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:39 pm

I thought we played alright lash , just didn't take our chances ,that's all . Still won though , which is a definate improvement on last season.

by **Sabre** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:41 pm

GYBS wrote:so only me who thought we didnt actually play that bad last nigt then

We weren't shíte, or that bad, but IMHO we didn't move the ball fast enough and with enough sense. That is, we played worse football than in previous weeks.

The best moment to make criticism is after a victory. The best moment to defend the lads is after a defeat.

by **GYBS** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:41 pm

yeah we seemed to create loads and james made some great saves , hit the upright and distin made a cracking tackle - and they had the header from diop ?

by **Scottbot** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:55 pm

Like i said a few posts back, last nights performance mirrored much of the season so far for me. We've played really well on three occasions this season, against Everton, Chelsea and the mancs. The rest of the time we have played well in patches, had to show character by scoring late goals, have had no little luck or have ground out wins with workmanlike displays. And this was WITHOUT rotation to the degree we saw last night. That doesn't mean I would have made four changes to yesterday's team-sheet but i'm not too concerned about it.

And to answer Gybs, I didn't think we played badly last night. It wasn't a world beating performance but the lads played alright, as they have for 7 of our 10 league games this season.

by **Igor Zidane** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:57 pm

Ok my reason's for last night changes .

Sami for Agger = No brainer really , sami was brought in to deal with crouch in the air , job done ,crouch was in sami's pocket all night .

Pennant on the wing for kuyt = . Well as kuyt played upfront and riera wasn't playing ,we needed natural width somewhere. Job not done , Pennant was poo imo .

Babel for Reira = Reira had a niggle apparently so there's your answer to that one . Job sort of done . Babel played well in parts , but comes inside to often instead of going wide and trusting his left foot .

Lucas for Mascherano = Mascherano was rested apparently cos he was tired (not sure about that one ) . Job done . Lucas had his best game in a Liverpool shirt imo, got forward a fair bit and was neat and tidy .

Kuyt upfront for Keane = Keane has a niggle in his groin , has had for a few weeks , so sensible change for me. Job sort of done , Kuyt got into the positions again but was wasteful with his chances.

All this bearing in mind we have a hard away game at Spurs on satdee and we need our stongest team available to win . Twas a gamble by rafa which paid off.

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