I know it's early but...... - Should we be getting carried away?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby bigmick » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:38 pm

So here we are, nine games in and who would have thought it? Three points clear at the top, eight points ahead of the Mancs, Arsenal languishing in our wake and our two closest rivals (chelsea and Hull :D) about to go into a top of the table encounter which is bound to see one of them drop points.

Where do we sit in terms of getting excited, does this constitute a genuine title challenge already, should Rafa be given a new contract right fecking now and are we gonna win the thing at last?

Well I've read various posts from people urging caution, and I broadly agree with that. That said, one thing I'm absolutely certain about is this: If we were eight points behind the Mancs at this stage, albeit with a game in hand I would say we would be as good as out of it. By that I don't mean to praise them up, I'm merely stating that it is a big, big lead. Bigger than it looks as the actor said to the actress. Now I know some will say "yeah but you lose a couple and then it's all back on" and that's true, but the point is that if you get eight points behind the Mancs or Chelsea, they don't lose a couple. They just keep grinding our the wins and before long, you win six out of eight and draw the other two only to discover your decent run of form has seen you fall further off the pace.

I'm going to make a boldish prediction here and now, when the Mancs play Arsenal in a couple of weeks, defeat for the gunners will see them as good as out of it. Not totally out of it, but not totally in it either. They would need from there to win 15 on the bounce or something to get back into it. Even bolder, defeat at Home for the Mancs in that fixture would give them a mountain to climb too. As it goes, I fully expect them to win it and all other matches for the near future (and in fairness they are capable of winning 15 on the bounce as well), so they have a bit more stickability in the race.

Out of our next four matches starting tomorrow, a minimum of ten points should be the target, and hopefully all twelve to really crank up the pressure.

In terms of it being a proper title challenge in the full sense of the phrase, we probably can't quite count it as such just yet. That though is only a matter of phraseology, as by pretty much any definition we are now contendERS, even if we can't be officially classed yet as contendING. My definition of the latter would be if we're within five or six points by the end of January or so, and I'm absolutely certain we will be such is our current momentum.

Now the new contract thing is a bit more complex, but I'd certainly be opening talks with the manager around now. He has confirmed and is confirming the suspicion that I've long held that he's actually put together a very good bunch of players who are well capable of a ttle challenge, and now he's actually giving them the opportunity to show it then the skys the limit for the team and for Rafa himself. There's no need to stress too much about the possibility of him reverting back to mass styling. As I've said many times he isn't an idiot and only an idiot would fail to see that the way he is doing it now is the way to go from now on. That's not to say we won't see some rotation (and we'll need some because you can't play the same team in every single game) but we won't I don't think see some of the more "unusual" methods that we saw in the past.

Ultimately though as far as this seasons concerned, I'm starting to get quite excited by the whole thing. I watched the Chelsea game last night for the first time in its entirity, and I was very impressed by the team, the fans, by Rafa by everything. Encouragingly, having heard so much about Chelsea I thought we totally outplayed them, and I also thought Rafa totally outfoxed Scholari with his quite innovative defensive set up (if anyones at all interested I talked about that in the match thread but it kind of got smothered in some other stuff).

On a different note, I've got a feeling that Ronaldo is angling for a move from Man Utd and is maybe a disruptive influence for them, so all in all it wouldn't probably take the team of the century to win the Prem this time around. That's handy, because we aren't the team of the century far from it, but when Torres is fit we are a good team who will take some stopping if the crowd really start to believe. I can see Anfield becoming an absolute cauldron if we're anywhere near, as well as huge armies of vocal support on the road.

It's time for Liverpool to win the title, God knows it's been time for a while now. I started the season predicting we will get very close, but ultimately just fall short due to lack of squad strength. We would though build a "base camp", to go for a final assault next season. Right now though if I'm honest I'm not so sure. I still think we can play much better than we currently are, and I think it's perhaps a year too early for Arsenal, a year too long for Ronaldo and Man Utd, and a learning curve with desperate injuries for Chelsea and Scholari. I tell you this for free, if we're not very careful we might just end up winning the fecker.
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Postby 7_Kewell » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:52 pm

NO, we shouldn't be getting carried away. It's only October and some fans are acting like we've won the league already.

Yes, i'm made up with our performances, but in effect we're only 5 points clear of the scum ( i can't see Fulham beating them) and we only need a draw tomorrow to throw all that hard work away.

So far we've achieved nothing.
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Postby kalos » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:55 pm

BM - you said " we are a good team who will take some stopping if the crowd really start to believe"

To this I would add "..and if the players/staff continue to beleive."  because at the moment they really look like they do - for the first time in nearly 2 decades.

I've said , on several occassions, that we won't win it until the players actually beleive they can. Put that belief together with the suporters SHOWING them each and every game that we believe it too and we could have a heady recipe for success IMHO.


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Postby SupitsJonF » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:57 pm

I do believe, but I also believe we put up 81 points and still lost?  My numbers may be wrong, but this just shows we need to keep working hard and bagging the 3 points.  Regardless if its Portsmouth, Arsenal, or West Brom, we need all the points we can get.

Ah, it was 82.  I knew it was wrong!
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Postby Cool Hand Luke » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:57 pm

Call me a pessimist but I don’t think we will win the title unless the winner of the Premiership can do so with a points total of below 85 points or we stay clear of major injury problems. Man Utd and Chelsea have been hit by injuries and if Rafa is adopting a policy of playing tired players we will also end up with our fair share of injuries, and this is where teams will start taking point of us.

I like the fact that Rafa has started with a settled team and built some momentum, I believe in that, but I think it may be time to start rotating one or two players a game when we are playing every 3 days.

I still think we need one or two more players who can support Gerrard and Torres but we are a lot closer than last season thanks to the signing of Riera and the return to form of Alonso.

But one or two injuries in flimsy areas of our squad and we are going to start dropping points.
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Postby GOAT_2.0 » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:00 pm

It's in the bag
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Postby Bad Bob » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:00 pm

bigmick wrote:I tell you this for free, if we're not very careful we might just end up winning the fecker.

Bloody happy clappers...get a grip, lad. :no





































:D

Good post as ever, Mick.  For me, I've seen too many false dawns in recent years to get too convinced about a genuine title challenge just yet.  There's always a concern that will hit a sticky patch at some point and fade away.  With that said, we should by no means minimize what we've achieved so far this season.  It's a quantum leap forward in terms of results--and, on occasion, performances--from what we've seen in recent seasons.  Sure, we've been good value to stick a few past Derby or Newcastle but to win against the Mancs at home and Chelsea away, to boss the derby, to come back from the dead against some fairly capable sides and to be in pole position in the CL to boot is impressive.  It'll count for nothing, though, if the lads start to believe the hype and take the foot off the gas so I'll be watching our performances against Pompey and Spurs very closely for signs of a champions' mentality.
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Postby Cool Hand Luke » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:01 pm

One other thing, I think the signing of Sammy Lee is also a good one. I don’t know how good a coach he is but he is a passionate guy and passionate about Liverpool. Passion is something that Rafa has failed to install into his players in past seasons but I think you can tell from the body language of the players this season that Sammy is having an affect on the attitude of the players.
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Postby Sabre » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:07 pm

I'll look the title options we have not before february, that is, I'm not getting too carried away, but I'm enjoying a lot the results.

I hope the lads focus only in the next game because if they think too much in the league, it will be extra pressure, and when we stumble, and we will stumble, that defeat would have an extra weight. I just think we have to enjoy the moment, enjoy the forum too because there are less frustrations and discussions after bad games, and that's all.

About the contract, I think that if the club wants to keep Rafa they have to hurry. The more time they delay the more they'll show their little interest and the least will be the chance to keep him. Plus after the Klinsman incident they lost credit in the eyes of Rafa. Rafa has too many clubs after him to be able to delay an offer.
Last edited by Sabre on Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tubby » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:17 pm

If we had a 15 point gap then yeah we could get carried away but even then nothing would be assured. Right now we have squat. 3 points and thats it. We need to take it 1 game at a time as everyone is going to be gunning for us now. Regarding Rafa and his contract if by now the owners are still not convinced they should give him a new contract then they deserve to be shot.
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Postby GYBS » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:19 pm

Im with cool hand luke - dont think we will win the title this year and think chelsea will . think we will be a lot closer than previous years and think we will end up second - if we are in same sort of position come jan then maybe but not after nine games. far too early to even think about winning the prem .
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Postby bigmick » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:24 pm

GYBS wrote:far too early to even think about winning the prem .

OK, sorry about that. Can you Pm us when it's OK to start thinking about it, and in the meantime lets close the thread down.
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Postby JC_81 » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:25 pm

bigmick wrote:I still think we can play much better than we currently are, and I think it's perhaps a year too early for Arsenal, a year too long for Ronaldo and Man Utd, and a learning curve with desperate injuries for Chelsea and Scholari. I tell you this for free, if we're not very careful we might just end up winning the fecker.

Agree with most of your post Mick.

We've had little to shout about in the league for a long time, so fu.ck it - I am getting excited about the prospect of us actually having a title challenge on our hands!  But of course my head says that it's still a long, long way to go and our squad may just fall short due to lack of strength in depth/injuries, or due to hitting a blip that we just don't recover from.

The paragraph I've quoted you on is an interesting one.  I agree on Arsenal, in fact imo they're as good as out of it already.  You may yet be right also about Ronaldo having a detrimental effect on United's final points total, but on Chelsea I fear you're being a bit optimistic.  With Drogba and Joe Cole in the side they're a completely different proposition and will no doubt go on long winning streaks over this season.  The offensive style Scolari has them playing will see them destroy most teams and rack up a lot of goals, and for me they're the team to beat this season (despite the fact we just have :buttrock ).

As for us, all we can do is beat what's in front of us, starting with Portsmouth tomorrow.
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Postby GYBS » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:29 pm

bigmick wrote:
GYBS wrote:far too early to even think about winning the prem .

OK, sorry about that. Can you Pm us when it's OK to start thinking about it, and in the meantime lets close the thread down.

thought you were ignoring me ? i gave my opinion which was pretty much the same as a few others so maybe go have a pop at them for a change .
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Postby bigmick » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:31 pm

john craig wrote:The paragraph I've quoted you on is an interesting one.  I agree on Arsenal, in fact imo they're as good as out of it already.  You may yet be right also about Ronaldo having a detrimental effect on United's final points total, but on Chelsea I fear you're being a bit optimistic.  With Drogba and Joe Cole in the side they're a completely different proposition and will no doubt go on long winning streaks over this season.  The offensive style Scolari has them playing will see them destroy most teams and rack up a lot of goals, and for me they're the team to beat this season (despite the fact we just have :buttrock ).

As for us, all we can do is beat what's in front of us, starting with Portsmouth tomorrow.

John I definately agree about Drogba in particular being hugely influencial for them, and I think Ballacks a bigger miss than many give him credit for too.

Rafa was clever in defending narrow with the midfielders and encouraging them to lump it in on Sunday, but you wouldn't want to be seeing too much of that if Drogba was playing. I've actually got them as finishing behind the Mancs when all the coun tings done, but I knw the bookies have em as strong favourites so there's no doubt a lot of sense in what you say John, there usually is.

Just out of interest, how long is Drogba out for because as I say it could have a huge influence on how mnay points they get, seven or eight points over a season perhaps I should think.
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