Liverpool FC Forum

by **jedwards** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 8:29 pm

GAME OVER, SEASON OVER, BUT NO THANKS FOR G. HOULLIER.

Dear Friends,

We have yet concluded the first quarter of the season, and our dear team has lost five games so far, which three of them against the top three teams, and at home, which makes it more difficulte to accept by every loving fan of LFC.
The main blame totally lie upon brainless G. Houllier, who has again sent out unbalance side against Man. U. with most important role was left to “Headless chicken V. Smicer”, who is not good enough to play for LFC’s reserves, which it just to indicate how Houllier’s strategy does work!!!!, This man has no clue, he has lost the plot out right, he only tries to rectify the situation after his team are 0 – 2 down, and when it’s too late. The useless Smicer and Hesky should have never started, instead Houllier should have started with Sinama Progolle, and Le Talic, they are a promising youngster, rather than the hopeless Hesky & Smicer. Man.U were there for the taking through out the whole game and especially in the first half, but there is no one to score the goals !!!!

It is about time to say goodbye to G.H., and bring in someone more ruthless that can bring back some pride and salvage FLC’s season, to a respectable outcome, well must be someone out there better than G.H. I personally think that LFC should be the first club in this league, to think seriously about changing their manager, more than everyone is talking about at present time, of Leeds’s manger to get the sack, I honestly think that, if G.H. remains at LFC, the club chances will follows Leeds fortunes, and will more likely ends up like them, I can see the best players leaves, ‘the club of under achievers’, therefore, the board of directors of FLC along with the Chairman should take more decisive action towards the team’s present management, and especially G.H., rather than putting all their efforts and time to build new stadium, otherwise LFC is heading to unknown path of disappointments and will be everyone’s laughing stock.

I am appalled to what I have seen of a total and unsettle displays from LFC’s side, who lack a believe to win games so far this season, because, the side contains more unable players for the task, than capable ones, well we are entering an new situation, where the past masters of LFC, had managed to rectified it with their outstanding managers, with their know how and skill, and G. Houllier is not one of them for sure, and even, he can not get near them.

Yours sincerely,

Jedwards

by **gazkell** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 8:48 pm

i may be alone in saying this but i think that liverpool were unlucky today. infact, i think that we have been unlucky all season! we deserved at least a point today, we have lost 3 games at home this season where we deserved not too. luck plays a huge part in football. i know that arsenal are a fine team but recently i have seen them pick up points against us, newcastle, portsmouth, chelsea, and spurs with huge slices of good fortune,deflections a speciality. give GH till the end of the season and see where we are. man u was always going to be tough after that joke of a pitch the other night. the mancs had several days rest remember. on another note, i agree with scmicer and heskey. emile is a joke. his miss today said everything about him. he may well cost GH his job come may. not only does he not score but also contributes nothing to the team.

by **simic_ie** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 9:05 pm

I agree with the unlucky all season comment. Heskey and Smicer were awful today but unfortunatly due to injuries they had to start. Sinama and Le Tallec are too young and inexperienced to start in a match such as this and I don't think the pressure if leading the line from the start should be heaped on them yet. They were excellent when they came on but there was no huge expectations on them to perform because we were down 2-0. Maybe later on in the season expectations can be raised, but give them time, they will go through a bad patch sometime so we can't be too dependant on them yet, it will shatter there confidence if they can't rduce what is expected of them. At least the eway they are benig used now if they are going through a hard time they can be given time in the reserves to work thenmselves back into form.

by **supersub** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 9:05 pm

I agree gazkel.

by **oldredeyes** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 9:35 pm

No doubt we were unlucky. Same with the Arsenal game, which we should have tied up long before they scored. If our team realised that united are not exactly on fire themselves at present we probably would have won comfortably, but some of the players just went missing at vital times. I'm not down, just annoyed that we blew a good chance to move closer to the pack. We can't afford to drop too many more points. But having watched Arsenal and United recently I can't say that they are any better than us - just more fortunate! What goes around comes around-we must keep the faith and see how it pans out.

by **THEBARON** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:26 pm

I agree that we have been unlucky in all the home games we have lost this season and could arguably picked up points in all 3. But the reality is that we have lost them and after 12 games we are out of the championship race and facing a really tough challenge to make the top 4. The harsh truth is that our league form in the last 12 months is completely unaccepatable and is relegation form .
So do we stick with Gerard and hope that we turn things round ?There is the line of argument that it took Ferguson 7 years to get the title so why shouldn't we do the same ? You could argue that Houllier has won more in his 1st 5 years than Ferguson did and so deserves to continue.
However if you like comparisons then why not make comparisons with his fellow countryman Mr Venger. He , like Houllier , was largely unknown in the British game prior to his appointment and went to a club with a huge expectation owing to past glories.
Has he pleaded time for a 5 year strategy ? How has he done in his first 5 years ?
If we continue to make excuses for defeat ( the latest being a quagmire ) and bury our head in the sand and continue to do it our way then I don't see us improving things.
You can harp on about bad luck with some justification but Gerard has now been sole boss for 5 years and how do we look compared to November 1998 ? Yes we have a Great Youth Academy , tho' it hasn't stopped us raiding France for young talent, and the discipline , hard work attitude and professionalism that was so badly lacking under Roy Evans has been rigorously applied. We have also won silverware and have some unforgettable memories from 2001. We have also invested heavily in the transfer market , with total purchases over £ 100 million ( though we have recouped a fair amount back )
Compared to Roylston we have a manager who is much more cautious and prone to talking spin to the point of excess. He is loyal to many of his squad and most certainly has his favouirites but seems to dislike handling flair / experienced / attitude players. Post operation I believe his judgement has been affected , resulting in poor purchases, dodgy sales and a tendency to talk complete and utter boll##ks.
It is a shame that it has ended like this because when he came back from his illness the goodwill , affection and respect generated towards him was overwhelming.
Go now as the man who brought us back pride and success but couldn't take us to the final goal of champions. You've given it your best crack and risked your health in doing so. Go now before you could become a figure of ridicule.

by **JBG** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:29 am

Can I add my two cents?

1. It is true that we have been "unlucky" at times this season. However, I am a great believer that you create your own luck. We deserved a draw against UTD at least, and you could argue that we were "unlucky" not to get a penalty. However, if we were a good team, we would have knocked one or two in against UTD in the first half. For all our possession and good play, we never carved UTD open. You might say that we were unlucky if we hit the bar a few times or had a few goals disallowed, but in reality we had very few shots on goal. I don't see how that is unlucky. The same goes for the games against Arsenal and Chelsea.

2. It is true that Alex Ferguson was given 7 years to win the league. However, the circumstances are much different to that of Houllier.
(a) After reaching a low point in early 1990 UTD won the FA Cup and improved dramatically since that. After Houllier won trophies Liverpool regressed (more after 2002).

(b) After 1990 Liverpool collapsed and their was a vacum in English football where there was no superpower as such. Even Arsenal faded after 1991. How else can you explain Leeds winning the league in 1992? One of the main reasons UTD claimed their first championship in 25 years was because there were no realistic challengers. Both Liverpool and Arsenal were struggling. This is not the case today, where there are three top class sides in the Premiership: UTD, Arsenal and Chelsea.

We might say that we were unlucky in the big games but we were awful in the games against Portsmouth and Charlton. We will still lose three or four games yet this season against some of the lesser sides, as well as pick up one or two defeats on our travels to the big three. We also have Newcastle away to come: we always lose there under Houllier.

by **simic_ie** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:56 am

The reason I believe we were so ineffectual at creating chances in the first half was because there was no-one up front making a decent enough run to test the defenders or make space for midfielders to run into. We all seen when Sinama came on who much troubke he caused United because of his movement. He created space and because of that Liverpool should have scored at least three goals.

by **redandblue** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:38 pm

Thebaron got it right. Go now Houllier........you have done your best, and the trophies cheered us up. But we are not close to the top three and everyone seems to have settled for mediocrity. However, it is too late for GH to avoid being a figure of ridicule........he is lambasted for being a French clown and has simply run out of excuses. No one takes him seriously and the fans know that he reached his sell by date a while ago.

by **gazkell** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:44 pm

the general consensus seems to be that it is time for GH to go. i have thought about it many times. a lot of the points raised are certainly valid. but i believe we should stick with him till may. i think that we will finish strongly and with luck finish fourth. if the fans think thats not good enough then so be it. GH made a mistake when after finishing second a couple of years ago he should have invested in a " finished article " player i.e. perez. instead he invested in youth, like cheyrou etc. the move of letting anelka go and keeping heskey, also a mistake. owen has proved yet again to be injury prone. he misses at least 10 games a season, costing us i believe at least 15 points a season. henry and van niistelrooy have proved far more reliable regading fitness. GH youth policy though is exellent. no big name costly bit players who couldnt care have come here. the 2 french lads, diouf, traore, baros, etc may well turn out to be great players for us. a shrewed bit of business in january may change things, sell heskey,scmicer,dudek and buy 2 top class " finished product " palyers and we might all be smiling come may. heres hoping. :;):

by **redandblue** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:18 pm

You missed the point. If you are smiling in May because Liverpool finished fourth then you, like Houllier, have settled for mediocrity. Finishing in fourth place is a disgrace. Houllier has spent over £100m. I just cannot believe, that after five years and his failure to build a team which can compete at the highest levels, you want to give him more time, till the end of the season. We are out of contention for the title after 12 matches!!

What do you want to wait for? A relegation struggle?

by **JBG** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:39 pm

I think that 5 years and £100million spending money is more than enough for any half decent manager to prove his worth.The very reason Roy Evans went was that he had us finishing 3rd or 4th very season, which wasn't good enough at the time.

Now we have a manager who, after 5 years and buckets of money spent, believes that finishing 4th would be an acceptable achievement. If all we wanted to do was to finish fourth we would have held onto Roy Evans!!!

I think that its a simply incredible situation, and Roy Evans for one must be very p#ssed off seing that, on average, his acheivements in the Premiership exceeds that of Gerald Houllier!!!

Fair enough, Houllier won some cups, but the main target has always been to win the Premiership, and once that was won, going all out for the Champions League. Winning a few league cups is great if you are manager of Spurs or Man City, but this is Liverpool for crying out loud! We wrote the book on winning leagues and European cups!

At this stage I would almost settle for Roy Evans ahead of Houllier!!!

by **THEBARON** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 5:08 pm

Good point !
Apart from times during the 93/94 campaign I cannot recall us stuttering in mid table under Evan's leadership. Don't get me wrong I am not suggesting that he should come back but it is a valid point that we are in a worse position now than when Evans relinquished control.Evans gave us 4 finishes in the top 4 but which was good but not good enough. He had to go, if 4th isn't enough how the f##k can you justify 5th now.
Over to messrs Parry and Moores.

by **gazkell** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:32 pm

yes, i think that the points made above are reasonable. but you cannot compare the past with the present, even only a few years ago. you have to remember that roy evans was not a winner. he also spent a lot of money. he spent it on big players who failed to deliver. he had poor discipline at the club, and apart from the league cup won nothing. GH has won things and for the first 3 years was making excellent progress. its only in the last 12 months that things have gone wrong. give him till the end of the season. we cannot expect to win the league because we are liverpool. chelski have spent 100 million this season alone and dont expect to win the laegue. thats not to say they wont win it. but, only man u and the gunners expect to win the league because they are the best. 18 months ago i bileved we were very close to them. now i admit we have fallen away. we still have a core of brilliant young players, and kewell and finnan have been teriffic. the players have to take some of the blame. as they should have done with roy evans. im not saying GH is a genious, but giev him till may and see where we are. if the fans are not happy then, thenso be it.

by **Owzat** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:06 pm

I'm inclined to replace Kermit now and let a new manager have the rest of the season to work with the squad and bring ring a few changes. If someone comes in close season then it would be optimistic to expect the new man to produce much, given 20 games this season there would be some hope

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