Liverpool FC Forum

by **taff** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:39 pm

Rafa is as obsessed with mentality as he is with rotation. This has been used as an argument in this topic before but not picked up. The rotation part of it was to keep players fresh and to get a squad who can positively have an impact on games.

I genuinely think that Rafa sets about the season as a chess player and instead of seeing the light I think he is using a different attack strategy in the PL. He also builds a squad slowly, (probably down to funds) and sacrifices players easily to get his long term targets.

If you listen to him he goes on about mentality and as ST M pointed out in another thread the team now has plenty of players who are leaders on the pitch instead of the ludicrous way we depended on SG in Houlliers last season. We now have a team who have to fight for their place and a team that thinks it can win every game.

I predict that we will see some level of rotation especially as the fixtures build up as Rafa seems to have that mindset. Bable comes to mind as a plyer who will feature more as the season progresses and possibly Benayoun. I think that in rafa world he wants 22 world class players so he could tactically out manouvere any opposition. We have seen this implode before but yesterday we saw him absolutely batter Scolari tactically and instead of just big games he wants this in every game.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:42 pm

GYBS wrote:Ok i will rephrase mate - How many games do you think the players can play without being rested ?

I don't think its the number of games thats the problem as much as the frequency. 3 games a week is too much for any footballer to keep up for long. A game every week should be no problem. I think if we are to maintain our challenge in the league we are going to have to make sacrifices in the other competitions by playing weaker teams (certainly in the League cup and POSSIBLY the FA cup). The CL is the real problem, but I would even be willing to gamble with the team in that than run the risk in the league.

by **GYBS** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:47 pm

s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:Ok i will rephrase mate - How many games do you think the players can play without being rested ?

I don't think its the number of games thats the problem as much as the frequency. 3 games a week is too much for any footballer to keep up for long. A game every week should be no problem. I think if we are to maintain our challenge in the league we are going to have to make sacrifices in the other competitions by playing weaker teams (certainly in the League cup and POSSIBLY the FA cup). The CL is the real problem, but I would even be willing to gamble with the team in that than run the risk in the league.

The prob is mate with the CL is money - lots of profit available from that the further you go . Every one of the top 4 teams need to rotate to an extent - for me its always been the wuality of players that come in that has been the problem . maybe this season we have a bit better quality on the bench to come into the team.

by **taff** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:47 pm

s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:Ok i will rephrase mate - How many games do you think the players can play without being rested ?

I don't think its the number of games thats the problem as much as the frequency. 3 games a week is too much for any footballer to keep up for long. A game every week should be no problem. I think if we are to maintain our challenge in the league we are going to have to make sacrifices in the other competitions by playing weaker teams (certainly in the League cup and POSSIBLY the FA cup). The CL is the real problem, but I would even be willing to gamble with the team in that than run the risk in the league.

assuming we qualify for the next stage of the CL then I reluctantly agree with you Saint IF we are in this position come January.

If we are top of the league or within three points come January I would sacrifice everything for the league IF Rafa thinks it would be beneficial. I get the feeling though that the CL will be important. But if we have the belief and the sniff of a league challenge then who knows th eplayers might be up for it.

The league cup I totally agree and dont care about it in fact use just fringe players and youngsters

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:54 pm

GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:Ok i will rephrase mate - How many games do you think the players can play without being rested ?

I don't think its the number of games thats the problem as much as the frequency. 3 games a week is too much for any footballer to keep up for long. A game every week should be no problem. I think if we are to maintain our challenge in the league we are going to have to make sacrifices in the other competitions by playing weaker teams (certainly in the League cup and POSSIBLY the FA cup). The CL is the real problem, but I would even be willing to gamble with the team in that than run the risk in the league.

The prob is mate with the CL is money - lots of profit available from that the further you go . Every one of the top 4 teams need to rotate to an extent - for me its always been the wuality of players that come in that has been the problem . maybe this season we have a bit better quality on the bench to come into the team.

You get a lot more money FROM the CL if you do better in the league.i.e. When we got to the final last time, Chelsea (semi-finalist) actually received more CL money than we did ..... because they had Won the league the previous season.

If he rotates in the CL it will be no different than he has done in the past anyway. Just keep the team as strong as possible in the league!

by **GYBS** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:26 pm

s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:Ok i will rephrase mate - How many games do you think the players can play without being rested ?

I don't think its the number of games thats the problem as much as the frequency. 3 games a week is too much for any footballer to keep up for long. A game every week should be no problem. I think if we are to maintain our challenge in the league we are going to have to make sacrifices in the other competitions by playing weaker teams (certainly in the League cup and POSSIBLY the FA cup). The CL is the real problem, but I would even be willing to gamble with the team in that than run the risk in the league.

The prob is mate with the CL is money - lots of profit available from that the further you go . Every one of the top 4 teams need to rotate to an extent - for me its always been the wuality of players that come in that has been the problem . maybe this season we have a bit better quality on the bench to come into the team.

You get a lot more money FROM the CL if you do better in the league.i.e. When we got to the final last time, Chelsea (semi-finalist) actually received more CL money than we did ..... because they had Won the league the previous season.

If he rotates in the CL it will be no different than he has done in the past anyway. Just keep the team as strong as possible in the league!

So basically you need to keep the team as strong as possible for both competitions with players being rested etc . Think a lot of the improvement also comes down to the players mentality and self belief that they can win and i think a fair bit of that credit could go towards big sammy . Rafa will never change the way he approaches every game - will put out the 11 he thinks can win the game - wether thats our best 11 or not.and he will always protect his players.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:32 pm

GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:Ok i will rephrase mate - How many games do you think the players can play without being rested ?

I don't think its the number of games thats the problem as much as the frequency. 3 games a week is too much for any footballer to keep up for long. A game every week should be no problem. I think if we are to maintain our challenge in the league we are going to have to make sacrifices in the other competitions by playing weaker teams (certainly in the League cup and POSSIBLY the FA cup). The CL is the real problem, but I would even be willing to gamble with the team in that than run the risk in the league.

The prob is mate with the CL is money - lots of profit available from that the further you go . Every one of the top 4 teams need to rotate to an extent - for me its always been the wuality of players that come in that has been the problem . maybe this season we have a bit better quality on the bench to come into the team.

You get a lot more money FROM the CL if you do better in the league.i.e. When we got to the final last time, Chelsea (semi-finalist) actually received more CL money than we did ..... because they had Won the league the previous season.

If he rotates in the CL it will be no different than he has done in the past anyway. Just keep the team as strong as possible in the league!

So basically you need to keep the team as strong as possible for both competitions with players being rested etc . Think a lot of the improvement also comes down to the players mentality and self belief that they can win and i think a fair bit of that credit could go towards big sammy . Rafa will never change the way he approaches every game - will put out the 11 he thinks can win the game - wether thats our best 11 or not.and he will always protect his players.

I suppose that depends on whether you wish to do WELL in both competitions or actually WIN one of them. Personally I would prefer that we go all out for the league, and let the chips fall where they may in the CL.

by **GYBS** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:46 pm

s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:Ok i will rephrase mate - How many games do you think the players can play without being rested ?

I don't think its the number of games thats the problem as much as the frequency. 3 games a week is too much for any footballer to keep up for long. A game every week should be no problem. I think if we are to maintain our challenge in the league we are going to have to make sacrifices in the other competitions by playing weaker teams (certainly in the League cup and POSSIBLY the FA cup). The CL is the real problem, but I would even be willing to gamble with the team in that than run the risk in the league.

The prob is mate with the CL is money - lots of profit available from that the further you go . Every one of the top 4 teams need to rotate to an extent - for me its always been the wuality of players that come in that has been the problem . maybe this season we have a bit better quality on the bench to come into the team.

You get a lot more money FROM the CL if you do better in the league.i.e. When we got to the final last time, Chelsea (semi-finalist) actually received more CL money than we did ..... because they had Won the league the previous season.

If he rotates in the CL it will be no different than he has done in the past anyway. Just keep the team as strong as possible in the league!

So basically you need to keep the team as strong as possible for both competitions with players being rested etc . Think a lot of the improvement also comes down to the players mentality and self belief that they can win and i think a fair bit of that credit could go towards big sammy . Rafa will never change the way he approaches every game - will put out the 11 he thinks can win the game - wether thats our best 11 or not.and he will always protect his players.

I suppose that depends on whether you wish to do WELL in both competitions or actually WIN one of them. Personally I would prefer that we go all out for the league, and let the chips fall where they may in the CL.

why not go try and win both ? we cant really afford not to take the cl serious enough thou .

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:53 pm

GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:Ok i will rephrase mate - How many games do you think the players can play without being rested ?

I don't think its the number of games thats the problem as much as the frequency. 3 games a week is too much for any footballer to keep up for long. A game every week should be no problem. I think if we are to maintain our challenge in the league we are going to have to make sacrifices in the other competitions by playing weaker teams (certainly in the League cup and POSSIBLY the FA cup). The CL is the real problem, but I would even be willing to gamble with the team in that than run the risk in the league.

The prob is mate with the CL is money - lots of profit available from that the further you go . Every one of the top 4 teams need to rotate to an extent - for me its always been the wuality of players that come in that has been the problem . maybe this season we have a bit better quality on the bench to come into the team.

You get a lot more money FROM the CL if you do better in the league.i.e. When we got to the final last time, Chelsea (semi-finalist) actually received more CL money than we did ..... because they had Won the league the previous season.

If he rotates in the CL it will be no different than he has done in the past anyway. Just keep the team as strong as possible in the league!

So basically you need to keep the team as strong as possible for both competitions with players being rested etc . Think a lot of the improvement also comes down to the players mentality and self belief that they can win and i think a fair bit of that credit could go towards big sammy . Rafa will never change the way he approaches every game - will put out the 11 he thinks can win the game - wether thats our best 11 or not.and he will always protect his players.

I suppose that depends on whether you wish to do WELL in both competitions or actually WIN one of them. Personally I would prefer that we go all out for the league, and let the chips fall where they may in the CL.

why not go try and win both ? we cant really afford not to take the cl serious enough thou .

In all honesty I don't think we are good enough to win both unfortunately. I would prefer to win one rather than fall between two stools, and I want the league. If we prove we are good enough by winning the league THEN maybe we can be more adventurous and go all out for two next year.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Or at least it is for me this season.

by **GYBS** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:54 pm

s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:Ok i will rephrase mate - How many games do you think the players can play without being rested ?

I don't think its the number of games thats the problem as much as the frequency. 3 games a week is too much for any footballer to keep up for long. A game every week should be no problem. I think if we are to maintain our challenge in the league we are going to have to make sacrifices in the other competitions by playing weaker teams (certainly in the League cup and POSSIBLY the FA cup). The CL is the real problem, but I would even be willing to gamble with the team in that than run the risk in the league.

The prob is mate with the CL is money - lots of profit available from that the further you go . Every one of the top 4 teams need to rotate to an extent - for me its always been the wuality of players that come in that has been the problem . maybe this season we have a bit better quality on the bench to come into the team.

You get a lot more money FROM the CL if you do better in the league.i.e. When we got to the final last time, Chelsea (semi-finalist) actually received more CL money than we did ..... because they had Won the league the previous season.

If he rotates in the CL it will be no different than he has done in the past anyway. Just keep the team as strong as possible in the league!

So basically you need to keep the team as strong as possible for both competitions with players being rested etc . Think a lot of the improvement also comes down to the players mentality and self belief that they can win and i think a fair bit of that credit could go towards big sammy . Rafa will never change the way he approaches every game - will put out the 11 he thinks can win the game - wether thats our best 11 or not.and he will always protect his players.

I suppose that depends on whether you wish to do WELL in both competitions or actually WIN one of them. Personally I would prefer that we go all out for the league, and let the chips fall where they may in the CL.

why not go try and win both ? we cant really afford not to take the cl serious enough thou .

In all honesty I don't think we are good enough to win both unfortunately. I would prefer to win one rather than fall between two stools, and I want the league. If we prove we are good enough by winning the league THEN maybe we can be more adventurous and go all out for two next year.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Or at least it is for me this season.

yeah but we cant afford to loose revenue thou - stuck between a rock and a hard place mate . we need as much cl money as possible.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:58 pm

GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:Ok i will rephrase mate - How many games do you think the players can play without being rested ?

I don't think its the number of games thats the problem as much as the frequency. 3 games a week is too much for any footballer to keep up for long. A game every week should be no problem. I think if we are to maintain our challenge in the league we are going to have to make sacrifices in the other competitions by playing weaker teams (certainly in the League cup and POSSIBLY the FA cup). The CL is the real problem, but I would even be willing to gamble with the team in that than run the risk in the league.

The prob is mate with the CL is money - lots of profit available from that the further you go . Every one of the top 4 teams need to rotate to an extent - for me its always been the wuality of players that come in that has been the problem . maybe this season we have a bit better quality on the bench to come into the team.

You get a lot more money FROM the CL if you do better in the league.i.e. When we got to the final last time, Chelsea (semi-finalist) actually received more CL money than we did ..... because they had Won the league the previous season.

If he rotates in the CL it will be no different than he has done in the past anyway. Just keep the team as strong as possible in the league!

So basically you need to keep the team as strong as possible for both competitions with players being rested etc . Think a lot of the improvement also comes down to the players mentality and self belief that they can win and i think a fair bit of that credit could go towards big sammy . Rafa will never change the way he approaches every game - will put out the 11 he thinks can win the game - wether thats our best 11 or not.and he will always protect his players.

I suppose that depends on whether you wish to do WELL in both competitions or actually WIN one of them. Personally I would prefer that we go all out for the league, and let the chips fall where they may in the CL.

why not go try and win both ? we cant really afford not to take the cl serious enough thou .

In all honesty I don't think we are good enough to win both unfortunately. I would prefer to win one rather than fall between two stools, and I want the league. If we prove we are good enough by winning the league THEN maybe we can be more adventurous and go all out for two next year.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Or at least it is for me this season.

yeah but we cant afford to loose revenue thou - stuck between a rock and a hard place mate . we need as much cl money as possible.

I prefer trophies to money mate. Its always nice to get more money but it can't replace a league title, and I certainly wouldn't gamble a title chance for a few dollars more. Especially as the two tw@ts are using profits to pay off THEIR interest payments.

by **GYBS** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:00 pm

s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:Ok i will rephrase mate - How many games do you think the players can play without being rested ?

I don't think its the number of games thats the problem as much as the frequency. 3 games a week is too much for any footballer to keep up for long. A game every week should be no problem. I think if we are to maintain our challenge in the league we are going to have to make sacrifices in the other competitions by playing weaker teams (certainly in the League cup and POSSIBLY the FA cup). The CL is the real problem, but I would even be willing to gamble with the team in that than run the risk in the league.

The prob is mate with the CL is money - lots of profit available from that the further you go . Every one of the top 4 teams need to rotate to an extent - for me its always been the wuality of players that come in that has been the problem . maybe this season we have a bit better quality on the bench to come into the team.

You get a lot more money FROM the CL if you do better in the league.i.e. When we got to the final last time, Chelsea (semi-finalist) actually received more CL money than we did ..... because they had Won the league the previous season.

If he rotates in the CL it will be no different than he has done in the past anyway. Just keep the team as strong as possible in the league!

So basically you need to keep the team as strong as possible for both competitions with players being rested etc . Think a lot of the improvement also comes down to the players mentality and self belief that they can win and i think a fair bit of that credit could go towards big sammy . Rafa will never change the way he approaches every game - will put out the 11 he thinks can win the game - wether thats our best 11 or not.and he will always protect his players.

I suppose that depends on whether you wish to do WELL in both competitions or actually WIN one of them. Personally I would prefer that we go all out for the league, and let the chips fall where they may in the CL.

why not go try and win both ? we cant really afford not to take the cl serious enough thou .

In all honesty I don't think we are good enough to win both unfortunately. I would prefer to win one rather than fall between two stools, and I want the league. If we prove we are good enough by winning the league THEN maybe we can be more adventurous and go all out for two next year.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Or at least it is for me this season.

yeah but we cant afford to loose revenue thou - stuck between a rock and a hard place mate . we need as much cl money as possible.

I prefer trophies to money mate. Its always nice to get more money but it can't replace a league title, and I certainly wouldn't gamble a title chance for a few dollars more. Especially as the two tw@ts are using profits to pay off THEIR interest payments.

yeah we all prefer trophies to money mate but money improves the squad and helps us as a club if those profits arent there to pay of any payments where will the money come from ?

by **JoeTerp** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:01 pm

bigmick wrote:Another victory for sensible selection. Not just in the Chelsea game, but in the one before. It was always fairly obvious that we were going to play 4-5-1 against Chelsea (no really it was, I did say so about four days ago in the Athletico match thread) and so we picked the 4-5-1 aggainst the Spanish team, to "bed it in" a bit. What a refreshing change from making seven changes from one match to the next, playing like strangers and not giving ourselves a chance. Cohesive, effective and sensible.

I'll tell you this, if Rafa rotates a couple of people against Pompey there will not even be a ripple of worry amongst the players, or from me either. We now have momentum, whisper it quietly but we are beginning to resemble a football team. As players begin to look tired, you can rest them individually from time to time (like Kuyt against Athletico). Three points clear at the top of the league though, feck me that Riera must be some player because it's universally accepted that it's not down to keane, and of course it's absolutely nothing to do with the lack of rotation .

I think the biggest thing that gets missed is that we must not have been alllllllll that far away back to start with. In some of these big four clashses we outplayed the our opponents but couldn't get the results, and somtimes the margins for these things are fractions and there ARE a lot of different factors at play. Is rotating less having a positive impact on the team and on results, probably, but like Sabre said above, its not like it is some kind of secret that every team can use and magically win the league ( or else all 20 teams would do it and finish level with each other)

I know you haven't been saying it BigMick, but I want to counter the idea anyway in case other people are thinking it. I DO NOT think that this change in policy nor its change in our results means that for all these years Rafa was blowing our legit title chances.

and as for the getting the team used to 4-5-1, what if Torres would have surprisingly passed fit just before kickoff? would you have said that Rafa should drop Keane for Torres, or switch to 4-4-2 in order to play both players?

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:04 pm

GYBS wrote:yeah we all prefer trophies to money mate but money improves the squad and helps us as a club if those profits arent there to pay of any payments where will the money come from ?

Hopefully from the sale of the club ? If not maybe the two tw@ts would have to actually put their hands in their own pockets rather than picking ours!

by **GYBS** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:05 pm

yeah but do you really think they will do that ? i dont ?

Liverpool FC Forum

The rotation thread - All "R" talk in here please!

Who is online