Liverpool FC Forum

NANNY RED wrote:For me the one player who got better and better was Essien. The lad played mainly right back and only got to play in midfield through injury. He wasnt a regular in the team either , But this lad is superb also playing cental defence. Left back right back . Holding or attacking midfield and hes played in all of them positions while at Chelsea. Hes also developed great physical strengh.

So you could look at it if he never got his chance cause someone was injured at playin in the middle of the park would he have been a great right back.
How many players are there who we think are good in the position that they have played or are playing and yet could be world class playing in a different position.
Ray Kennerdy spring to mind with me

Bam wrote:

To quote a line from Phoenix nights - "Stu - is that short for Stu-pid?" 

Kevin Phillips

Early career

Phillips started his football career as a right back. He was released by Southampton in his youth and was quickly snapped up by one of his local teams, non-league semi-professional Baldock Town F.C. There his eye for goal and unique ball control were quickly noticed and he was shifted to striker. His goalscoring turned Baldock into a top-of-the-table side, as well as a huge progression in cup competitions, such as the FA Trophy. His exploits netted him a move into the Football League, to Watford.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Phillips_(footballer)

Went from non-league semi professional to a player who plays at Championship and Premiership level - and got him EIGHT England caps. Near enough a goal every other game for all his clubs bar Aston Villa (1 in 6), Watford and Southampton (both around 2 in 5)

Baldock Town : 15 in 31 appearances
Watford : 24 goals in 59 appearances
Sunderland : 115 goals in 208 appearances
Southampton : 23 goals in 64 appearances
Aston Villa : 4 goals in 23 appearances
WBA : 38 goals in 71 appearances
Birmingham : 4 goals in 9 appearances

I guess Stu's argument will be he was never a full-back! (or never that good) The expression "the harder I practice, the luckier I get" probably applies. Professional sportsmen practice, work on their technique, their skills and fitness. Plenty of players learn to pass, tackle and shoot later than others. They are SKILLS, everyone can learn new skills or does Stu believe old people not brought up in the age of computers can use them or the internet. Kids don't just learn how to walk, run and then they're either a footballer or they're not. They LEARN, some are naturally better at it than others. Those that aren't naturally skilled work at it, and even then most fail to make the grade. There are plenty of players who start off at lower levels and come up to higher levels, wasn't Joe Hart in the lower leagues? (Shrewsbury) Didn't Rush come from Chester? (3rd division) You can't tell me that they both decided that was who they wanted to play for, that they didn't fancy playing for Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal etc Something must have happened between them joining those clubs and then moving to bigger clubs - I wonder what that could have been.........   

I'm sure Mr mightyfull will pull some irrelavant, nit picky, condescending post out of his bottom.

Tony Adams improved with age 

i dont think it was age mate, i think he got better with sobriety

Kharhaz wrote:

s@int wrote:There was an interview with Arsene Wenger on the show, and when they asked him about his famous quote (about developing a player is like building a foundation of a house), he mentioned that there are 4 stages of football:

Technical (feet) - Ball skills
Physical (body) - Strength, agility, fitnesse
Mind (head) - Tactical
Mentality (brain) - mental strength, confidence

But what interested me the most, is that Arsene Wenger, as a known manager who enjoys finding young talent, specified these into timelines (technical age 7-14, physical age 14-17, mind age 18-19, mentality 18-21), and most surprisingly, he says that players who cannot develop technical skills by the age of 14 does not have a chance of playing football.

Maybe Wenger agrees with Stu ?

David Bentley? Arsene Wenger calls it right a lot of the time, but he also calls it wrong. Jermaine Pennant? I'll leave that one to you lot ! 

peewee wrote:

Bam wrote:

To quote a line from Phoenix nights - "Stu - is that short for Stu-pid?" 

Kevin Phillips

Early career

Phillips started his football career as a right back. He was released by Southampton in his youth and was quickly snapped up by one of his local teams, non-league semi-professional Baldock Town F.C. There his eye for goal and unique ball control were quickly noticed and he was shifted to striker. His goalscoring turned Baldock into a top-of-the-table side, as well as a huge progression in cup competitions, such as the FA Trophy. His exploits netted him a move into the Football League, to Watford.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Phillips_(footballer)

Went from non-league semi professional to a player who plays at Championship and Premiership level - and got him EIGHT England caps. Near enough a goal every other game for all his clubs bar Aston Villa (1 in 6), Watford and Southampton (both around 2 in 5)

Baldock Town : 15 in 31 appearances
Watford : 24 goals in 59 appearances
Sunderland : 115 goals in 208 appearances
Southampton : 23 goals in 64 appearances
Aston Villa : 4 goals in 23 appearances
WBA : 38 goals in 71 appearances
Birmingham : 4 goals in 9 appearances

I guess Stu's argument will be he was never a full-back! (or never that good) The expression "the harder I practice, the luckier I get" probably applies. Professional sportsmen practice, work on their technique, their skills and fitness. Plenty of players learn to pass, tackle and shoot later than others. They are SKILLS, everyone can learn new skills or does Stu believe old people not brought up in the age of computers can use them or the internet. Kids don't just learn how to walk, run and then they're either a footballer or they're not. They LEARN, some are naturally better at it than others. Those that aren't naturally skilled work at it, and even then most fail to make the grade. There are plenty of players who start off at lower levels and come up to higher levels, wasn't Joe Hart in the lower leagues? (Shrewsbury) Didn't Rush come from Chester? (3rd division) You can't tell me that they both decided that was who they wanted to play for, that they didn't fancy playing for Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal etc Something must have happened between them joining those clubs and then moving to bigger clubs - I wonder what that could have been.........   

I'm sure Mr mightyfull will pull some irrelavant, nit picky, condescending post out of his bottom.

Tony Adams improved with age 

i dont think it was age mate, i think he got better with sobriety

Thats a good enough reason for Stu to counter that arguement then. 

Rush Job wrote:FWIW i agree with stu (yes and wenger ) comments on players not suddenly learning new "tricks" at like 25 but i also think its a generalization, wenger certainly speaks that way, im sure he would admit its not set in stone but thats generally the way it works.
Also bare in mind they (managers) have a limited amount of time with youngsters and they cant wait around untill a players 25 to see if their good enough.
You can certainly add things to your game though hard work, its only muscle memory after all, like Beckam, if there was ever a player that made it though shear hard work and practise, staying behind after every training session to drill free kicks over and over.
Like i say its muscle memory, i think anyone can improve though hard work and drilling somethink over and over.
How much though is a different question.

Something else I've also said is there are rare exceptions in certain cases IE Gerrard and Ronaldo's physical growth and certain other things. Its not "set in stone" but 99.9999999% of the time thats the way it works.

IE obviously Beckham practised his free kicks, but I'll bet a pound to a pinch of poo he could take them superbly already, he was merely trying to perfect them and gain a consistency in his technique.

I used to spend hours and hours practising free kicks, and I mean hours when I was younger while me mates where having their tea or I was waiting for them to come out and I can tell you now, althought am a half decent player I can't take a free kick for toffee even though I know exactly what I'm doing wrong.

LegBarnes wrote:

Kharhaz wrote:Ian Wright. Started professional football late didnt he? and got better with age. If im wrong, i'll just shurrup.

I already used the Ian Wright thing with Stu it won't work he got his head so far up his own ideals he can't see true logic and fact is he is wrong about this.

He started to play football at 22 Ian couldn't get a pro contact before that cos he was dire.

But some one seen him and thought I can teach him to have a first touch and to finish , but to Stu's law of inevitability Kids just don't learn they are all doomed to a life of being at what ever they do.

Shoot them I say shoot them all in the heads and be done with it.

Owzat wrote:

LegBarnes wrote:

Kharhaz wrote:Ian Wright. Started professional football late didnt he? and got better with age. If im wrong, i'll just shurrup.

I already used the Ian Wright thing with Stu it won't work he got his head so far up his own ideals he can't see true logic and fact is he is wrong about this.

He started to play football at 22 Ian couldn't get a pro contact before that cos he was dire.

But some one seen him and thought I can teach him to have a first touch and to finish , but to Stu's law of inevitability Kids just don't learn they are all doomed to a life of being at what ever they do.

Shoot them I say shoot them all in the heads and be done with it.

To quote a line from Phoenix nights - "Stu - is that short for Stu-pid?" 

Kevin Phillips

Early career

Phillips started his football career as a right back. He was released by Southampton in his youth and was quickly snapped up by one of his local teams, non-league semi-professional Baldock Town F.C. There his eye for goal and unique ball control were quickly noticed and he was shifted to striker. His goalscoring turned Baldock into a top-of-the-table side, as well as a huge progression in cup competitions, such as the FA Trophy. His exploits netted him a move into the Football League, to Watford.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Phillips_(footballer)

Went from non-league semi professional to a player who plays at Championship and Premiership level - and got him EIGHT England caps. Near enough a goal every other game for all his clubs bar Aston Villa (1 in 6), Watford and Southampton (both around 2 in 5)

Baldock Town : 15 in 31 appearances
Watford : 24 goals in 59 appearances
Sunderland : 115 goals in 208 appearances
Southampton : 23 goals in 64 appearances
Aston Villa : 4 goals in 23 appearances
WBA : 38 goals in 71 appearances
Birmingham : 4 goals in 9 appearances

I guess Stu's argument will be he was never a full-back! (or never that good) The expression "the harder I practice, the luckier I get" probably applies. Professional sportsmen practice, work on their technique, their skills and fitness. Plenty of players learn to pass, tackle and shoot later than others. They are SKILLS, everyone can learn new skills or does Stu believe old people not brought up in the age of computers can use them or the internet. Kids don't just learn how to walk, run and then they're either a footballer or they're not. They LEARN, some are naturally better at it than others. Those that aren't naturally skilled work at it, and even then most fail to make the grade. There are plenty of players who start off at lower levels and come up to higher levels, wasn't Joe Hart in the lower leagues? (Shrewsbury) Didn't Rush come from Chester? (3rd division) You can't tell me that they both decided that was who they wanted to play for, that they didn't fancy playing for Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal etc Something must have happened between them joining those clubs and then moving to bigger clubs - I wonder what that could have been......... 

Personally I'd take Wengers word over yours any day.

LegBarnes wrote:

Owzat wrote:

LegBarnes wrote:

Kharhaz wrote:Ian Wright. Started professional football late didnt he? and got better with age. If im wrong, i'll just shurrup.

I already used the Ian Wright thing with Stu it won't work he got his head so far up his own ideals he can't see true logic and fact is he is wrong about this.

He started to play football at 22 Ian couldn't get a pro contact before that cos he was dire.

But some one seen him and thought I can teach him to have a first touch and to finish , but to Stu's law of inevitability Kids just don't learn they are all doomed to a life of being at what ever they do.

Shoot them I say shoot them all in the heads and be done with it.

To quote a line from Phoenix nights - "Stu - is that short for Stu-pid?" 

Kevin Phillips

Early career

Phillips started his football career as a right back. He was released by Southampton in his youth and was quickly snapped up by one of his local teams, non-league semi-professional Baldock Town F.C. There his eye for goal and unique ball control were quickly noticed and he was shifted to striker. His goalscoring turned Baldock into a top-of-the-table side, as well as a huge progression in cup competitions, such as the FA Trophy. His exploits netted him a move into the Football League, to Watford.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Phillips_(footballer)

Went from non-league semi professional to a player who plays at Championship and Premiership level - and got him EIGHT England caps. Near enough a goal every other game for all his clubs bar Aston Villa (1 in 6), Watford and Southampton (both around 2 in 5)

Baldock Town : 15 in 31 appearances
Watford : 24 goals in 59 appearances
Sunderland : 115 goals in 208 appearances
Southampton : 23 goals in 64 appearances
Aston Villa : 4 goals in 23 appearances
WBA : 38 goals in 71 appearances
Birmingham : 4 goals in 9 appearances

I guess Stu's argument will be he was never a full-back! (or never that good) The expression "the harder I practice, the luckier I get" probably applies. Professional sportsmen practice, work on their technique, their skills and fitness. Plenty of players learn to pass, tackle and shoot later than others. They are SKILLS, everyone can learn new skills or does Stu believe old people not brought up in the age of computers can use them or the internet. Kids don't just learn how to walk, run and then they're either a footballer or they're not. They LEARN, some are naturally better at it than others. Those that aren't naturally skilled work at it, and even then most fail to make the grade. There are plenty of players who start off at lower levels and come up to higher levels, wasn't Joe Hart in the lower leagues? (Shrewsbury) Didn't Rush come from Chester? (3rd division) You can't tell me that they both decided that was who they wanted to play for, that they didn't fancy playing for Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal etc Something must have happened between them joining those clubs and then moving to bigger clubs - I wonder what that could have been......... 

Good post matey.

My point is about players like babel I have seen him have a great first touch and I have seen him pass well and bring others into the game.

Point is reason he isn't do that all the time at liverpool is due to the lack of games he gets here.

He is lacking confidence thats it very simple really more he plays better he will become even the greats of the world can't escape that fact.

I am sure if you took any top pro and played him only a handful of game per season you would see more mistakes from them bcos of there lack of sharpness.

But one thing that is consistent with Babel is he shows us moments of total class and he is a match winner END OFF !

Don't try to prove me wrong Stu bcos he has proven he comes up with the goods when he is asked. 

I'd be more inclined to agree with Wenger than you aswell.

Toffeehater wrote:

Kharhaz wrote:

s@int wrote:There was an interview with Arsene Wenger on the show, and when they asked him about his famous quote (about developing a player is like building a foundation of a house), he mentioned that there are 4 stages of football:

Technical (feet) - Ball skills
Physical (body) - Strength, agility, fitnesse
Mind (head) - Tactical
Mentality (brain) - mental strength, confidence

But what interested me the most, is that Arsene Wenger, as a known manager who enjoys finding young talent, specified these into timelines (technical age 7-14, physical age 14-17, mind age 18-19, mentality 18-21), and most surprisingly, he says that players who cannot develop technical skills by the age of 14 does not have a chance of playing football.

Maybe Wenger agrees with Stu ?

David Bentley? Arsene Wenger calls it right a lot of the time, but he also calls it wrong. Jermaine Pennant? I'll leave that one to you lot ! 

Francis Jeffers , arsenal paid 8 million for him and he was a flop . Adebayor is a average player , he was in good form last season and that was about it . He does not deserve to be playing for a top 4 club and ask any arsenal fan they will agree with me that wenger was stupid not to accept barca's 30 million offer for him . They don't rate him at all and this season is further proof of that .

Adebayor's average yet scored 20 odd goals last season, Kuyt's a good player and scored 3 league goals.

Bam wrote:

To quote a line from Phoenix nights - "Stu - is that short for Stu-pid?" 

Kevin Phillips

Early career

Phillips started his football career as a right back. He was released by Southampton in his youth and was quickly snapped up by one of his local teams, non-league semi-professional Baldock Town F.C. There his eye for goal and unique ball control were quickly noticed and he was shifted to striker. His goalscoring turned Baldock into a top-of-the-table side, as well as a huge progression in cup competitions, such as the FA Trophy. His exploits netted him a move into the Football League, to Watford.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Phillips_(footballer)

Went from non-league semi professional to a player who plays at Championship and Premiership level - and got him EIGHT England caps. Near enough a goal every other game for all his clubs bar Aston Villa (1 in 6), Watford and Southampton (both around 2 in 5)

Baldock Town : 15 in 31 appearances
Watford : 24 goals in 59 appearances
Sunderland : 115 goals in 208 appearances
Southampton : 23 goals in 64 appearances
Aston Villa : 4 goals in 23 appearances
WBA : 38 goals in 71 appearances
Birmingham : 4 goals in 9 appearances

I guess Stu's argument will be he was never a full-back! (or never that good) The expression "the harder I practice, the luckier I get" probably applies. Professional sportsmen practice, work on their technique, their skills and fitness. Plenty of players learn to pass, tackle and shoot later than others. They are SKILLS, everyone can learn new skills or does Stu believe old people not brought up in the age of computers can use them or the internet. Kids don't just learn how to walk, run and then they're either a footballer or they're not. They LEARN, some are naturally better at it than others. Those that aren't naturally skilled work at it, and even then most fail to make the grade. There are plenty of players who start off at lower levels and come up to higher levels, wasn't Joe Hart in the lower leagues? (Shrewsbury) Didn't Rush come from Chester? (3rd division) You can't tell me that they both decided that was who they wanted to play for, that they didn't fancy playing for Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal etc Something must have happened between them joining those clubs and then moving to bigger clubs - I wonder what that could have been.........   

I'm sure Mr mightyfull will pull some irrelavant, nit picky, condescending, egotestical post out of his bottom.

Tony Adams improved with age 

I'm leaving the forum for good, I can't take it no more, delete my account...

GYBS wrote:

Yooj Bigullz wrote::laugh: Nice side-step

Well fielded!!

Is it a sidestep ? i havent seen enough of him to judge on wether or not i would prefer him over kuyt ? and why bring kuyt into it in the first place ?

Fo Dne wrote:This is quite amusing. I've got four or five clueless fool's on here who know nothing about the game and keep saying how wrong I am because I disagree with Benitez and other "top managers" calling me for alsorts because I dare to actually have a bit of knowledge on a subject, then all of a sudden probably one of the best managers and coaches ever to walk the earth and one of the best ever at bringing through young players, comes out and says pretty much the same thing as me and now not only am I clueless...

But he is aswell.

Its quite funny using someones own arguement against them, what the would you lot know? You aren't coaches at the top level and Wenger is and he agree's with my opinions.

Thankyouandgoodnight!

Christ, there'll be no living with him now that he's got Wenger's endorsement.

Cheers for that, Saint!