Liverpool FC Forum

by **Fo Dne** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:39 pm

Yooj Bigullz wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:Ian Wright. Started professional football late didnt he? and got better with age. If im wrong, i'll just shurrup.

Was it Coppell who found him?

He's a bloke who can pick a player for sure

One of the best managers in the game.

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:41 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
Yooj Bigullz wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:Ian Wright. Started professional football late didnt he? and got better with age. If im wrong, i'll just shurrup.

Was it Coppell who found him?

He's a bloke who can pick a player for sure

One of the best managers in the game.

Agreed. Noble in defeat also. Top man.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:57 pm

There was an interview with Arsene Wenger on the show, and when they asked him about his famous quote (about developing a player is like building a foundation of a house), he mentioned that there are 4 stages of football:

Technical (feet) - Ball skills
Physical (body) - Strength, agility, fitnesse
Mind (head) - Tactical
Mentality (brain) - mental strength, confidence

But what interested me the most, is that Arsene Wenger, as a known manager who enjoys finding young talent, specified these into timelines (technical age 7-14, physical age 14-17, mind age 18-19, mentality 18-21), and most surprisingly, he says that players who cannot develop technical skills by the age of 14 does not have a chance of playing football.

Maybe Wenger agrees with Stu ?

by **Kharhaz** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:02 am

s@int wrote:There was an interview with Arsene Wenger on the show, and when they asked him about his famous quote (about developing a player is like building a foundation of a house), he mentioned that there are 4 stages of football:

Technical (feet) - Ball skills
Physical (body) - Strength, agility, fitnesse
Mind (head) - Tactical
Mentality (brain) - mental strength, confidence

But what interested me the most, is that Arsene Wenger, as a known manager who enjoys finding young talent, specified these into timelines (technical age 7-14, physical age 14-17, mind age 18-19, mentality 18-21), and most surprisingly, he says that players who cannot develop technical skills by the age of 14 does not have a chance of playing football.

Maybe Wenger agrees with Stu ?

David Bentley? Arsene Wenger calls it right a lot of the time, but he also calls it wrong. Jermaine Pennant? I'll leave that one to you lot !

by **Fo Dne** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:07 am

s@int wrote:There was an interview with Arsene Wenger on the show, and when they asked him about his famous quote (about developing a player is like building a foundation of a house), he mentioned that there are 4 stages of football:

Technical (feet) - Ball skills
Physical (body) - Strength, agility, fitnesse
Mind (head) - Tactical
Mentality (brain) - mental strength, confidence

But what interested me the most, is that Arsene Wenger, as a known manager who enjoys finding young talent, specified these into timelines (technical age 7-14, physical age 14-17, mind age 18-19, mentality 18-21), and most surprisingly, he says that players who cannot develop technical skills by the age of 14 does not have a chance of playing football.

Maybe Wenger agrees with Stu ?

To be quite honest I've said similar things in the past. Obviously not exactly the same and in his mind if he's sure on that then I'd probably go along with something similar. I think maybe I would agree in part and disagree slightly, but the general gist of what he says I'd agree with 90% of...

He is right for my money in the stages of development but as to the mentallity and and physical ages I disagree. Mentallity can be to do with upbringing and experiences as a child. IE if a kid gets butted going up for a header and is a bit of a shitbag that can effect him a long way down the line in that aspect. As I say though the general jist of what he says I agree with.

by **Fo Dne** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:08 am

Kharhaz wrote:
s@int wrote:There was an interview with Arsene Wenger on the show, and when they asked him about his famous quote (about developing a player is like building a foundation of a house), he mentioned that there are 4 stages of football:

Technical (feet) - Ball skills
Physical (body) - Strength, agility, fitnesse
Mind (head) - Tactical
Mentality (brain) - mental strength, confidence

But what interested me the most, is that Arsene Wenger, as a known manager who enjoys finding young talent, specified these into timelines (technical age 7-14, physical age 14-17, mind age 18-19, mentality 18-21), and most surprisingly, he says that players who cannot develop technical skills by the age of 14 does not have a chance of playing football.

Maybe Wenger agrees with Stu ?

David Bentley? Arsene Wenger calls it right a lot of the time, but he also calls it wrong. Jermaine Pennant? I'll leave that one to you lot !

Bentley is decent, he's also very overated and didn't really settle into a position till he left Arsenal.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:11 am

Kharhaz wrote:
s@int wrote:There was an interview with Arsene Wenger on the show, and when they asked him about his famous quote (about developing a player is like building a foundation of a house), he mentioned that there are 4 stages of football:

Technical (feet) - Ball skills
Physical (body) - Strength, agility, fitnesse
Mind (head) - Tactical
Mentality (brain) - mental strength, confidence

But what interested me the most, is that Arsene Wenger, as a known manager who enjoys finding young talent, specified these into timelines (technical age 7-14, physical age 14-17, mind age 18-19, mentality 18-21), and most surprisingly, he says that players who cannot develop technical skills by the age of 14 does not have a chance of playing football.

Maybe Wenger agrees with Stu ?

David Bentley? Arsene Wenger calls it right a lot of the time, but he also calls it wrong. Jermaine Pennant? I'll leave that one to you lot !

Don't really see your point Kharhaz ?

BTW it was a copy and paste, not my post..... I forgot to put that before.

by **Fo Dne** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:13 am

Where did you get that saint I wanna see if theres anymore detail about that. Thats really interested me.

by **Kharhaz** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:17 am

Sorry saint, wasnt a dig, just an opinion on that what you posted. Its always mentioned about the youngsters that do well in the Arsenal team but what about those who left. As stu said, Bentley, not great, good enough for spurs to shell out a small fortune though. And Pennant, he had something that peaked Rafas interest. So what I meant was, despite the youngsters he has at Arsenal not being good enough for Wenger, doesnt mean he calls it right all the time and they could go on to be more than good enough elsewhere. Like all managers, you either fit the bill or you dont.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:20 am

Fo Dne wrote:Where did you get that saint I wanna see if theres anymore detail about that. Thats really interested me.

here mate

There is not much more .... I copied the best bit

If you want to watch the actual interview its Here Starts about 3 mins in

by **LFC2007** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:23 am

Foundations of a house.

First stage - basement - technical skill - develops between ages of 7-14. If you have no technical skill you can forget it, you will never be a footballer.

Second stage - first floor - physical aspect, develops between 14-17 - is the player quick enough, strong enough?

Third part - second floor - tactical aspect - does the player understand the game and how to relate to other players?

Final part - roof - discover around 18-19 - desire/motivation. Does the player want to go to disco on a friday night if there's a game on Saturday? If it rains, the house collapses.

LINK

The analogy appears to explain at which age ranges - in his opinion - players develop their fundamental attributes. He doesn't state that players can't improve - in whatever capacity - after these ages.

by **maguskwt** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:23 am

Fo Dne wrote:The same with Owen, he already had the attibutes there, finishing and anticipation are completely different attributes. He changed his style of play because he had to and lets be quite honest, he's nowhere near as good as he was. At his best he was unplayable and one of the top 5 players in the world, now, although still a class act, he's nowhere near that level. Why? Because he lost one of his main attributes and the others weren't good enough to accomadate losing that. He had to become more of a poacher, but he still has the same vision, the same instinct, the same control and passing ability, he's still very careful with his passing and very crisp.

mate I'm not talking about the Owen of now, I was talking about when he was 17-18 vs when he was about 23-24... that was when he played the best of his football, voted european player and won the treble with us. when he was 17-18, despite scoring lots of goals after the world cup 98, he was prett much a one dimensional striker, using his pace to outrun defenders and chipping the ball into goals. later on he start to develop his anticipation, his reading of the game, his shot power, his finishing with his left foot, etc etc. For example, the way he plays off the shoulder of the defenders and the way he starts his runs was top notch... haven't seen any striker since him do it as good as him, not even Torres. Like you said he's become unplayable during that time. So what I'm saying is he did improve after he was 18, he became european player of the year from a boy wonder and deservedly so. And this was while playing under the same system for houllier. Compare him to Wayen Rooney who was also a boy wonder I'll have to say Owen improved more than Rooney had so far...

by **Fo Dne** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:27 am

s@int wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:Where did you get that saint I wanna see if theres anymore detail about that. Thats really interested me.

here mate

There is not much more .... I copied the best bit

The whole threads fairly interesting. Some :censored:

spoken as always but its a fairly good thread with a few people who actually understand the development of young players.

Interesting read. Cheers.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:29 am

If you want to watch the actual interview its here starts about 3 mins in

by **Fo Dne** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:29 am

maguskwt wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:The same with Owen, he already had the attibutes there, finishing and anticipation are completely different attributes. He changed his style of play because he had to and lets be quite honest, he's nowhere near as good as he was. At his best he was unplayable and one of the top 5 players in the world, now, although still a class act, he's nowhere near that level. Why? Because he lost one of his main attributes and the others weren't good enough to accomadate losing that. He had to become more of a poacher, but he still has the same vision, the same instinct, the same control and passing ability, he's still very careful with his passing and very crisp.

mate I'm not talking about the Owen of now, I was talking about when he was 17-18 vs when he was about 23-24... that was when he played the best of his football, voted european player and won the treble with us. when he was 17-18, despite scoring lots of goals after the world cup 98, he was prett much a one dimensional striker, using his pace to outrun defenders and chipping the ball into goals. later on he start to develop his anticipation, his reading of the game, his shot power, his finishing with his left foot, etc etc. For example, the way he plays off the shoulder of the defenders and the way he starts his runs was top notch... haven't seen any striker since him do it as good as him, not even Torres. Like you said he's become unplayable during that time. So what I'm saying is he did improve after he was 18, he became european player of the year from a boy wonder and deservedly so. And this was while playing under the same system for houllier. Compare him to Wayen Rooney who was also a boy wonder I'll have to say Owen improved more than Rooney had so far...

Owen was at his best at 20/21 years of age. He was a world class striker and one of the best players on the planet. As good as Torres is now, I will never say that again, I promise.

Torres

Liverpool FC Forum

Players that become good - Through experience

Who is online