Liverpool FC Forum

s@int wrote:I am still trying to get over the fact that everyone is talking about sex........ and Judge made a football post

JoeTerp wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:

Owzat wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:1. To you it might have seemed sensible, to Keane and a few other players in the team, awell as some supporters, it would probably seem stupid. Changing your best players position, dropping a striker who's just scored in order to give a midfielder a game is plain stupidity. It was only the fact he realised how stupid a mistake it was then decided to correct it we won the game.

Yeah, so stupid to employ TACTICS and change formation to counter the opposition's ATTACKING THREAT by playing cover in midfield, to try and control possession and nullify said threat. Much better to play two strikers, because one has scored in the last game, ignoring completely the fact that with two up front we'd have lost our midfield advantage and the two strikers would quite possibly been stood upfield starved of supply.

As for the latter sentence, ballacks. The starting XI turned the game, Keane nearly contributed to the comeback but didn't turn the game around as you're suggesting. Even if the starting tactics hadn't worked it wouldn't make the decision incorrect.

Of course had it been a home game then keeping the same XI would have probably been correct

Yeah, totally, Gerrard and Alonso aren't good enough to dominate a midfield away from home.

For the record, Mascherano had a complete shocker aswell. We got back into the game with the starting eleven, the changes had a massive impact in the play, allowing us to platy much higher up the pitch, the also helped get more out of Gerrard and Keane contributed more in 25 minutes than Mascherano did in 65.

How anyone can sit there and say the subs weren't the turning point is completely beyond me. Also, I didn't see us lose control against City's wonderful team (that Gerrard and Xabi) couldn't cope with when Keane actually did replace Mascherano. As I said, if anything that pushed us up another gear.

course they(Gerrard and Xabi) didn't have problems with City's attack, Citeh were down to 10 men, and we had all the momentum.

Fo Dne wrote:For the record, Mascherano had a complete shocker aswell. We got back into the game with the starting eleven, the changes had a massive impact in the play, allowing us to platy much higher up the pitch, the also helped get more out of Gerrard and Keane contributed more in 25 minutes than Mascherano did in 65.

How anyone can sit there and say the subs weren't the turning point is completely beyond me. Also, I didn't see us lose control against City's wonderful team (that Gerrard and Xabi) couldn't cope with when Keane actually did replace Mascherano. As I said, if anything that pushed us up another gear.

s@int wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:For the record, Mascherano had a complete shocker aswell. We got back into the game with the starting eleven, the changes had a massive impact in the play, allowing us to platy much higher up the pitch, the also helped get more out of Gerrard and Keane contributed more in 25 minutes than Mascherano did in 65.

How anyone can sit there and say the subs weren't the turning point is completely beyond me. Also, I didn't see us lose control against City's wonderful team (that Gerrard and Xabi) couldn't cope with when Keane actually did replace Mascherano. As I said, if anything that pushed us up another gear.

The reason we didn't lose control might be attributed to the fact that Citeh had just had a player sent off when Masch was subbed.

Masch was involved in our first goal mate, and while I didn't think he had a great game...... he was no worse than Alonso in the first half.

We scored our second from a corner just after Masch went off. Do you think Masch going off made Gerrards delivery that much better?

So that gets us to 2-2 against a side with 10 men..... who do you think is going to dominate play and who do you think has the momentum in their favour?

Bam wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:

Owzat wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:1. To you it might have seemed sensible, to Keane and a few other players in the team, awell as some supporters, it would probably seem stupid. Changing your best players position, dropping a striker who's just scored in order to give a midfielder a game is plain stupidity. It was only the fact he realised how stupid a mistake it was then decided to correct it we won the game.

Yeah, so stupid to employ TACTICS and change formation to counter the opposition's ATTACKING THREAT by playing cover in midfield, to try and control possession and nullify said threat. Much better to play two strikers, because one has scored in the last game, ignoring completely the fact that with two up front we'd have lost our midfield advantage and the two strikers would quite possibly been stood upfield starved of supply.

As for the latter sentence, ballacks. The starting XI turned the game, Keane nearly contributed to the comeback but didn't turn the game around as you're suggesting. Even if the starting tactics hadn't worked it wouldn't make the decision incorrect.

Of course had it been a home game then keeping the same XI would have probably been correct

Yeah, totally, Gerrard and Alonso aren't good enough to dominate a midfield away from home.

For the record, Mascherano had a complete shocker aswell. We got back into the game with the starting eleven, the changes had a massive impact in the play, allowing us to platy much higher up the pitch, the also helped get more out of Gerrard and Keane contributed more in 25 minutes than Mascherano did in 65.

How anyone can sit there and say the subs weren't the turning point is completely beyond me. Also, I didn't see us lose control against City's wonderful team (that Gerrard and Xabi) couldn't cope with when Keane actually did replace Mascherano. As I said, if anything that pushed us up another gear.

If it had been Alonso who passed the ball out wide to Gerrard who in turn played Arbeloa (who doesnt get forward "atall" cough) through for our first goal instead of Mascha.
You'd of been on here creaming yourself, and professing how intelligent and wonderful Alonso is, and that he's the only player in the side who has the vision and ability to play a ball like that. We'd never hear the end of it.

You really make me laugh in disbelief sometimes, you really do.

And like wise with your complete lack of understanding of the patterns of play, importance of team work and importance of giving the right pass to the right player. Also your complete lack of understanding in balance and teams that have players who bring different attributes to the table.

You sit there in the middle of nowhere banging on about playing two similar players in central midfield and going on about how great a creative player Gerrard is, then you go on in another thread about us lacking creativety. Then, after you saying that, you then want us to put the even less creative Mascherano back into the side ahead of someone with vision and who plays the right pass.

There was nothing special about the pass Mascherano played to Gerrard. There was nothing quality about it, just a simple pass which done its job. As for trying to make out I'd be Alonso because of something like that, you're mistaken. Arbeloa created that goal through taking advantage of some woeful defending. All Mascherano and Gerrard done was the correct and simple thing that 90% of decent footballers in world football would have done.

s@int wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:For the record, Mascherano had a complete shocker aswell. We got back into the game with the starting eleven, the changes had a massive impact in the play, allowing us to platy much higher up the pitch, the also helped get more out of Gerrard and Keane contributed more in 25 minutes than Mascherano did in 65.

How anyone can sit there and say the subs weren't the turning point is completely beyond me. Also, I didn't see us lose control against City's wonderful team (that Gerrard and Xabi) couldn't cope with when Keane actually did replace Mascherano. As I said, if anything that pushed us up another gear.

The reason we didn't lose control might be attributed to the fact that Citeh had just had a player sent off when Masch was subbed.

Masch was involved in our first goal mate, and while I didn't think he had a great game...... he was no worse than Alonso in the first half.

We scored our second from a corner just after Masch went off. Do you think Masch going off made Gerrards delivery that much better?

So that gets us to 2-2 against a side with 10 men..... who do you think is going to dominate play and who do you think has the momentum in their favour?

You've got to be joking? He left Xabi exposed, he gave the ball away, his movement was poor, he offered absoloutely no support to anyone and generally looked lost. I can't be arsed slagging the lad off because I know how much his gets on forum's like this but to sit there and say he had the same influence on the game as Xabi for any period yesterday is simply plain wrong. Mascherano's a good player but there is no excuse for that performance the other day especially when he came in for a goalscorer into a winning side.

By rights he should now find himself on the bench again this week... I doubt very much however that will happen.

s@int wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:For the record, Mascherano had a complete shocker aswell. We got back into the game with the starting eleven, the changes had a massive impact in the play, allowing us to platy much higher up the pitch, the also helped get more out of Gerrard and Keane contributed more in 25 minutes than Mascherano did in 65.

How anyone can sit there and say the subs weren't the turning point is completely beyond me. Also, I didn't see us lose control against City's wonderful team (that Gerrard and Xabi) couldn't cope with when Keane actually did replace Mascherano. As I said, if anything that pushed us up another gear.

The reason we didn't lose control might be attributed to the fact that Citeh had just had a player sent off when Masch was subbed.

Masch was involved in our first goal mate, and while I didn't think he had a great game...... he was no worse than Alonso in the first half.

We scored our second from a corner just after Masch went off. Do you think Masch going off made Gerrards delivery that much better?

So that gets us to 2-2 against a side with 10 men..... who do you think is going to dominate play and who do you think has the momentum in their favour?

Bam wrote:

.

You sit there in the middle of nowhere banging on about playing two similar players in central midfield and going on about how great a creative player Gerrard is, then you go on in another thread about us lacking creativety.

Mascherano and Gerrard are two totally different players, and for someone with a UEFA badge or whatever the feck you think you've got is wide of the mark, Stevie Wonder could even see that.

We lack creativity from the wide areas big boy, as long as we have Gerrard in the middle we'll always have a sufficient enough of a threat from the middle. Whoever he's paired up with, i.e Mascha or Xabi doesnt really matter, neither of them score enough goals, neither of them play that telling pass in the final third, neither of them take a man on regulaly. Granted Xabi will move the ball around more and instigate our build up of play but he's hardly the assist master or this creative magician you make him out to be.

I don't make him out to be an "assist master" at all. I simply say that he's got the brains and passing ability, plus the vision that Gerrard lacks. He brings other players into play in positions they are familiar with and dangerous in.

As for Gerrard, he's a box to box midfielder. Always has been, always will be. He's far better than Mascherano as a player, can do everything Mascherano can do and a whole lot more. He can tackle better, he's quicker, stronger, better on the ball, scores more goals and uses the ball better. Gerrard's performance the other day against Everton was what he's about. Thats how you get the best out of him. Not giving him a "free reign" and asking him to do things he's not upto doing on a regular basis. One of Steven Gerrard's best overall performances in a red shirt was the one he put in in the derby the other week, I'd personally rather see him doing that every week and score 10 goals a season than drifting in an out of games and scoring the odd screamer here and playing out of position.

Gerrard and Mascherano is a poor pairing. The lack intelligence, creativety and ball usage as a pair. They don't play the right pass, they don't bring the other players around them into play in the right area's on a regular and consistent basis. They often get caught standing next to each other, Mascherano doesn't have the intelligence to overlap and create space for others like Xabi does and he doesn't think about his position when we have the ball. I'vesaidittime and time again, they often get caught flat and we have no options when they play together. It makes the team very one dimensional.

As I've said many many many times in the past. When Gerrard and Hamann played, we often lacked creativety in that area of the pitch. When Gerrard and Mascherano play, its even worse. Then Gerrard and Alonso play, the balance and mix is excellent, hence the reason we consistenly control games and look a better side, when those two play as a central pairing.

The move in tandem, they overlap and underlap, they swap positions, both are comfortable going forward or defending, they both offer something different in terms of attacking, they both offer different things in terms of ball winning, they can both spray a pass, they can both his a shot.

Its a team game, having options and different strengths is what makes a team good. You also say we lack creativety out wide, well in that case are you saying Riera isn't upto it? Also, surely if we lack creativety in wide positions we need some more centrally to make up for that?

Just a thought.

Bam wrote:

You've got to be joking? He left Xabi exposed, he gave the ball away,

So you expect him to sit and hold Xabi's hand ?

If Mascha hadnt of been there theres a likely chance Gerrard would of left him exposed, do you really expect the extra man in midfield to sit alongside Xabi, when his game is about pressing the opposition and winning the ball further upfield ?

Xabi's passing wasnt the best either, if your going to be anal about it, some of Alonso's passes went astray.

I'll admit it wasnt Maschas best display, but more often than not he's put in MoTM displays. What was it you said about Torres ? He's allowed to miss the odd sitter as more often than not he's banging them in. Surely the same would apply to Mascha as more often than not he's one of the best players on the pitch.