Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:26 pm

In that bit, you're right, when it comes to Kuyt, many fans note down and then mention the mistakes, but then do not comment the things that he does well.

by **GYBS** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:29 pm

Sabre wrote:In that bit, you're right, when it comes to Kuyt, many fans note down and then mention the mistakes, but then do not comment the things that he does well.

exactly - you got it spot on there mate .

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:32 pm

FFS Torres had already scored 2 goals (in the game..... not this year!) so I think any leeway he was given for missing that chance was quite reasonable ? Kuyt missed a decent chance early in the game, played poorly for the rest of the match but got the winner. Maybe if he KEEPS on getting the winner, people will start giving him a little more leeway too!

by **GYBS** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:35 pm

so kuyt gets no leeway then ?

by **Sabre** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:41 pm

s@int wrote:FFS Torres had already scored 2 goals (in the game..... not this year!) so I think any leeway he was given for missing that chance was quite reasonable ? Kuyt missed a decent chance early in the game, played poorly for the rest of the match but got the winner. Maybe if he KEEPS on getting the winner, people will start giving him a little more leeway too!

More winners will come mate, or at least more goals.

Kuyt does something well as of late compared to Pennant, when Riera reaches the bottom and crosses, he normally occupies a position somewhere in the second post. So, ok, he missed it, but at least he was in the right place to miss it

, and, with Riera those crosses will be more frequent. I wouldn't be surprised if Kuyt had much better numbers this season.

Apart from the goal, I think he was made a clear penalty (he was him no?). I know GBYS has gone a bit too far in some comparisons in the past, but when he says the people only focus on his mistakes, I think that's a fair shout. In fact mate, we always had a scapegoat these seasons, Zenden, Kuyt, Traoré...

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:41 pm

Few points on reflection from the City game:

1) Mascherano in for Keane seemed a sensible change before kick off.
I certainly agreed with his decision

2) Torres on his Jack Jones with Gerrard off him seemed a good line up before the game started.
spot in

3) City away seemed like a tricky one before the game started.
Many people thought we would draw the game BEFORE the team was announced

Once we kicked off, we where on top the first fifteen minutes, then:

4) A proper goalmouth scramble, freaky bounce situation resulted in Ireland smashing one into the net
Aurelio mistake .... Arbeloa possibly mistake(the more I see it the less sure I am)
5) A poory arranged wall resulted in a second goal from a decent free kick.
I thought Reina was a little slow.... but the wall should have been better.

Then following an obvious roasting at half time (from Sammy Lee I heard) we saw

6) One team in it
we scored before changes were made

7) Changes made to the set up and line up

8) Some help from a clear red card

9) Chances to make it 5-2

10) A 3-2 win

I really cant understand the problems people have with this. We could have lost ? We didnt.

If we had defended better we would probably have won comfortably, I don't think the formation (or Rafa) can be blamed for defensive errors)

Spot on Leon

by **GYBS** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:44 pm

got it spot on there saint cant argue with that - mistakes led to us being 2 nil down not formation change or keane not playing . if we had converted some early chances the kuyt one mainly then we may well of cruised to a win . but in the end we won .

by **JoeTerp** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:02 pm

Sabre wrote:
Then following an obvious roasting at half time (from Sammy Lee I heard) we saw

I looked for the context of roasting in urbandictionary.com and it's related to sex. I guess it means he was very angry and shouted the players?

If so, that's interesting, because I always found the ex Liverpool and Osasuna player as the fella who would tap the player's back to compensate Rafa's "coldness".

never in my life have I heard of roasting in a sexual context.

this is what I think of when I think of roasting :

Full Metal Jacket

by **Judge** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:07 pm

Sabre wrote:
Then following an obvious roasting at half time (from Sammy Lee I heard) we saw

I looked for the context of roasting in urbandictionary.com and it's related to sex.

you to put spit in front of that sabre

but you are correct at the shouting bit

by **Owzat** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:08 pm

Fo Dne wrote:1. To you it might have seemed sensible, to Keane and a few other players in the team, awell as some supporters, it would probably seem stupid. Changing your best players position, dropping a striker who's just scored in order to give a midfielder a game is plain stupidity. It was only the fact he realised how stupid a mistake it was then decided to correct it we won the game.

Yeah, so stupid to employ TACTICS and change formation to counter the opposition's ATTACKING THREAT by playing cover in midfield, to try and control possession and nullify said threat. Much better to play two strikers, because one has scored in the last game, ignoring completely the fact that with two up front we'd have lost our midfield advantage and the two strikers would quite possibly been stood upfield starved of supply.

As for the latter sentence, ballacks. The starting XI turned the game, Keane nearly contributed to the comeback but didn't turn the game around as you're suggesting. Even if the starting tactics hadn't worked it wouldn't make the decision incorrect.

Of course had it been a home game then keeping the same XI would have probably been correct

by **Owzat** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:15 pm

s@int wrote:Few points on reflection from the City game:

1) Mascherano in for Keane seemed a sensible change before kick off.
I certainly agreed with his decision

2) Torres on his Jack Jones with Gerrard off him seemed a good line up before the game started.
spot in

3) City away seemed like a tricky one before the game started.
Many people thought we would draw the game BEFORE the team was announced

Once we kicked off, we where on top the first fifteen minutes, then:

4) A proper goalmouth scramble, freaky bounce situation resulted in Ireland smashing one into the net
Aurelio mistake .... Arbeloa possibly mistake(the more I see it the less sure I am)
5) A poory arranged wall resulted in a second goal from a decent free kick.
I thought Reina was a little slow.... but the wall should have been better.

Then following an obvious roasting at half time (from Sammy Lee I heard) we saw

6) One team in it
we scored before changes were made

7) Changes made to the set up and line up

8) Some help from a clear red card

9) Chances to make it 5-2

10) A 3-2 win

I really cant understand the problems people have with this. We could have lost ? We didnt.

If we had defended better we would probably have won comfortably, I don't think the formation (or Rafa) can be blamed for defensive errors)

Spot on Leon

Can't disagree with all that. Defensive failings cost us the goals, although they could have scored more than they did. It is down to the keeper to organise the wall, there shouldn't have been a gap and he should have been far post where the most would aim. The first was shambolic, uncharacteristic defending compounded by the second.

I think Rafa got the tactics about right from start through subs to finish. And Rafa can't be blamed for the errors as you said, other than maybe for still not finding an ideal solution to the LB problem.

But there is a ridiculous amount of focus surrounding Keane playing or not playing, this game was not proof he should have played but will be cited as such by those who want Keane in the side constantly. The best interests of the team were served by a tactical change to counter the threat of the home team and Torres is effective up front, as he proved. Basically we could have won 4-0 or better, we could have lost by as big a margin. Not because Keane wasn't in the starting XI, but because our defending was poor, their's was too and despite us being the better side overall, there were chances galore (well not quite, but 4-4 or more in good chances)

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:41 pm

Sabre wrote:
s@int wrote:FFS Torres had already scored 2 goals (in the game..... not this year!) so I think any leeway he was given for missing that chance was quite reasonable ? Kuyt missed a decent chance early in the game, played poorly for the rest of the match but got the winner. Maybe if he KEEPS on getting the winner, people will start giving him a little more leeway too!

More winners will come mate, or at least more goals.

Kuyt does something well as of late compared to Pennant, when Riera reaches the bottom and crosses, he normally occupies a position somewhere in the second post. So, ok, he missed it, but at least he was in the right place to miss it , and, with Riera those crosses will be more frequent. I wouldn't be surprised if Kuyt had much better numbers this season.

Apart from the goal, I think he was made a clear penalty (he was him no?). I know GBYS has gone a bit too far in some comparisons in the past, but when he says the people only focus on his mistakes, I think that's a fair shout. In fact mate, we always had a scapegoat these seasons, Zenden, Kuyt, Traoré...

I agree with your post Sabre, I just think he has struggled for so long people are bound to pick up on his errors, while someone like Torres can have the odd poor game, lose the ball repeatedly, miss an open goal etc because he has built up a lot of credit in his short time here.

It would seem a little petty to most I think to be complaining about Torres missing a goal when he has already scored two in the game.

I think if Kuyt had missed the goal that proved to be the winner, it would be Kuyt that we would be blaming for not getting the win...... not Torres and the earlier chance he had.

Its like Aurelio, I think unless he starts to pick up his game shortly, people will start becoming more critical of him in the same way they did with Riise in his last season.

by **Judge** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:05 pm

Owzat wrote:
s@int wrote:Few points on reflection from the City game:

1) Mascherano in for Keane seemed a sensible change before kick off.
I certainly agreed with his decision

2) Torres on his Jack Jones with Gerrard off him seemed a good line up before the game started.
spot in

3) City away seemed like a tricky one before the game started.
Many people thought we would draw the game BEFORE the team was announced

Once we kicked off, we where on top the first fifteen minutes, then:

4) A proper goalmouth scramble, freaky bounce situation resulted in Ireland smashing one into the net
Aurelio mistake .... Arbeloa possibly mistake(the more I see it the less sure I am)
5) A poory arranged wall resulted in a second goal from a decent free kick.
I thought Reina was a little slow.... but the wall should have been better.

Then following an obvious roasting at half time (from Sammy Lee I heard) we saw

6) One team in it
we scored before changes were made

7) Changes made to the set up and line up

8) Some help from a clear red card

9) Chances to make it 5-2

10) A 3-2 win

I really cant understand the problems people have with this. We could have lost ? We didnt.

If we had defended better we would probably have won comfortably, I don't think the formation (or Rafa) can be blamed for defensive errors)

Spot on Leon

Defensive failings cost us the goals

defensive failings cost every team goals more often than not matey, ki'nell

by **JoeTerp** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:26 pm

JoeTerp wrote:
Sabre wrote:
Then following an obvious roasting at half time (from Sammy Lee I heard) we saw

I looked for the context of roasting in urbandictionary.com and it's related to sex. I guess it means he was very angry and shouted the players?

If so, that's interesting, because I always found the ex Liverpool and Osasuna player as the fella who would tap the player's back to compensate Rafa's "coldness".

never in my life have I heard of roasting in a sexual context.

this is what I think of when I think of roasting :

Full Metal Jacket

roasting can also be when a bunch of people get together at a banquet type event and all make fun of one person in order to "honor" them. This was made famous by the New York Friars Club. You couldn't become a member until all the current members roasted you (mostly comedians and other entertainer types).

I am guessing the "sexual" stuff comes from a synnonym synonym for roasting which would be "rip (him) a new @rsehole/(one)" but that really doesn't have anything to do with sex, its just a figure of speech.

by **JoeTerp** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:33 pm

although the defense is not blameless, it was a bit lucky that one tackle spilled the ball right to SWP, and then when Arbeloa took it off Jo it went straight to Ireland. Surely it wasn't like he had a moment of stupidity and purposefully flicked it up to him, it looked like he was just trying to get it off of Jo and it either went too far/short/left/right, because anywhere else would have been clear.

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