Liverpool FC Forum

by **Effes** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:36 am

It's still early days - One swallow doesn't make a Summer.

Rafa's got plenty of time left to do his rotation madness!

by **Sabre** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:53 am

s@int wrote:What interests me now is...... are all the people that supported and defended Rafa and his rotation policy, now going to say that Rafa is wrong to abandon it, and that he should continue to rotate ?

What's the big deal about that question?

IMHO rotation (with my own degree) is good, and IMHO there could be other better options than play Kuyt in the right, what's the big deal about having an opinion as a fan and disagreeing with Rafa?

I don't plan to tell the manager something like "Oh Rafa, unless you see it my way, we won't ever win the league". I'd feel :blush:

of saying that.

Another example not related to rotation. You know I like Alonso as a player. Imagine Rafa sells him, would I think Rafa is not the correct manager any more? Absolutely not!! despite not seeing something eye to eye, I still see the progress even if he sells one of my favourites.

by **Judge** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:55 am

Number 9 wrote:
s@int wrote:

Love this one mate

Courtesy of Judge that!

bloody hell, some recognition from baz

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:42 am

Sabre wrote:
s@int wrote:What interests me now is...... are all the people that supported and defended Rafa and his rotation policy, now going to say that Rafa is wrong to abandon it, and that he should continue to rotate ?

What's the big deal about that question?

IMHO rotation (with my own degree) is good, and IMHO there could be other better options than play Kuyt in the right, what's the big deal about having an opinion as a fan and disagreeing with Rafa?

I don't plan to tell the manager something like "Oh Rafa, unless you see it my way, we won't ever win the league". I'd feel of saying that.

Another example not related to rotation. You know I like Alonso as a player. Imagine Rafa sells him, would I think Rafa is not the correct manager any more? Absolutely not!! despite not seeing something eye to eye, I still see the progress even if he sells one of my favourites.

So you think Rafa is WRONG then Sabre. Lets be clear ....... its no big deal its just you didn't quite manage to say it ......Rafa is W..... Rafa is WR.... come on mate I am sure you can manage it :laugh:

by **Ben1988** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:49 am

Effes wrote:It's still early days - One swallow doesn't make a Summer.

Rafa's got plenty of time left to do his rotation madness!

one swallow would make your day though..... ?

by **Sabre** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:04 pm

s@int wrote:So you think Rafa is WRONG then Sabre. Lets be clear ....... its no big deal its just you didn't quite manage to say it ......Rafa is W..... Rafa is WR.... come on mate I am sure you can manage it

I know to say WRONG.

But in my humble opinion, ME saying Rafa is WRONG is WRONG.

Imagine you're Rafa's new assistant manager mate, how would you tell him not to play Kuyt,

a) Maybe Rafa we should give Pennant a go, he's training well

or

b) YOU'RE WRONG RAFA. Sit down Kuyt.

I think that both a) and b) are valid to make the constructive criticism. The problem with b) is that it implies that what you think is RIGHT (and that's yet to be seen). I prefer a) because I've been proven wrong too many times to tell others -- let alone Rafa -- you're WRONG.

But if necessary, I'll say once: Rafa, sometimes, you're WRONG.

by **taff** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:16 pm

Rafa will still rotate I will bet anybody on this. But its not just rotation for rotations sake.

rafa has always stated about mentality and he has hinted lately that the team has the right mentality but still needs guidance hence the tentative comparison to Valencia. What really interested me was some things in Caras book, SG saying you have no idea how bad things are and Carra saying about Rafa encouraging him to start a fight in the showers. IMO Rafa discovered that the club did not have the mentality to win the league hence the importance of getting certain players like Mash and Kuyt. As we know SG and Torres are our real team but behind them is a steely backbone and hence the reason why we have gone in the papers from no hopers after the stoke draw to (whisper it only) league contenders.

Rotation will still occurr but hopefully in a more positive light and on a sounder foundation a la Chelsea or Man Utd where the players have genuine concerns for their places and are always up for it.

For anyone to think that he has seen the light well thats crazy talk to be honest as it is fundamental to his core beliefs but we might have gone from tinkering to genuine competition for hard fought places

by **Igor Zidane** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:39 pm

Thread locked , we lose,you win . Well done to one and all for a most memorable debate over the years ,but like rafa's styling ,it has come to an end .

It's been emotional .

Let me just finish by saying ,that if rafa doesn't play Torres and gerrard against Pompey ,it's because they will be out of form and not rotated or rested or whatever . Bet they get rested against one of the smaller cclubs though and there will be mass uproar.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:45 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:Thread locked , we lose,you win . Well done to one and all for a most memorable debate over the years ,but like rafa's styling ,it has come to an end .

It's been emotional .

Let me just finish by saying ,that if rafa doesn't play Torres and gerrard against Pompey ,it's because they will be out of form and not rotated or rested or whatever . Bet they get rested against one of the smaller cclubs though and there will be mass uproar.

Only if we lose Igor, only if we lose mate

by **Effes** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:54 pm

Ben1988 wrote:
Effes wrote:It's still early days - One swallow doesn't make a Summer.

Rafa's got plenty of time left to do his rotation madness!

one swallow would make your day though..... ?

Don't even know the point you're trying to make there.

It's still early days - we can't assume Rafa's dropped his rotational tendencies.

Re. your post - yea, if a woman would swallow me today, it would make my day

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:03 pm

Effes wrote:It's still early days - we can't assume Rafa's dropped his rotational tendencies.

Fair enough but we can compare how he's going about team selection this year vs. at the same stage last year. And there was much more tactical switching going on last year at this stage. Take last night--Rafa made one tactical switch from the Everton line-up (Aurelio for Dossena) whereas last year, when Marseilles arrived for our second CL group match, Rafa made five switches from the team that beat Wigan (Finnan for Arbeloa, Benayoun for Pennant, Sissoko for Masch, Leto for Riise, Crouch for Kuyt). I don't recall if any were due to injury but I don't think many were because I remember distinctly the debate after we lost focusing on needless rotation.

Rafa may indeed revert to form at some point this season and start rotating (Fergie style, as Mick would say because it came after a head of steam was built up by picking a settled team). But so far he's resisted the temptation to do so, lending credence to those who think he's 'seen the light'.

by **LFC2007** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:02 am

Just a quickie...

We performed badly against Wigan last year prior to the Marseille game. Against PSV we came off the back off a good performance, which was part of the reason Rafa kept near enough the same team out. Add to that the fact that we have only Keane as a striker, with fewer options to consider (no Crouch, Voronin, Kuyt no longer a second striker). Leto is no longer here, Riera is our only real option for the left since Benayoun performed very badly there. Babel has always been hit and miss, Pennant isn't coming of the back of a good half season like he was this time last year. There was no Sissoko to factor into the equation, and Lucas has been poor in the games he's played this season. Gerrard was looking for his 100th goal, Keane his first and all in Rafa's 250th game.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:17 pm

We have 8 games (9 if you include the CC cup)coming up after the international break with only 3 or 4 days between them. How do you think we will handle them ? Sensible rotation, weaker sides for the CL or maybe best team every game?

I think this will be Rafa's first big test since his change of policy , how he handles it may go some way to how we progress this season.

I hope we see our best team out as far as possible with changes made only if a player is playing poorly or tired. Arbeloa and Torres are the two obvious problems, as we don't really have genuine like for like or anything close for those positions. Juggling Agger,Carra and Hyypia shouldn't prove too much of a burden, similarly with Gerrard,Masch and Alonso. Could Kuyt or Keane lead the line if Torres needs a rest? It worked against the mancs.....but I wouldn't like to bet my house on it working again.

18 Oct, 2008 Wigan Athletic Barclays Premier League H 15:00 Y N Y -
22 Oct, 2008 Atletico Madrid Champions League Group Phase A 19:45 Y N Y -
26 Oct, 2008 Chelsea Barclays Premier League A 13:30 Y N Y -
29 Oct, 2008 Portsmouth Barclays Premier League H 20:00 Y N Y -
01 Nov, 2008 Tottenham Hotspur Barclays Premier League A 17:30 Y N Y -
04 Nov, 2008 Atletico Madrid Champions League Group Phase H 19:45 Y N Y -
08 Nov, 2008 West Brom Barclays Premier League H 17:30 Y N Y -
12 Nov, 2008 Tottenham Hotspur Carling Cup A 19:45 Y N Y -
15 Nov, 2008 Bolton Wanderers Barclays Premier League A 12:45 Y N Y -

by **zarababe** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:59 pm

s@int wrote:What interests me now is...... are all the people that supported and defended Rafa and his rotation policy, now going to say that Rafa is wrong to abandon it, and that he should continue to rotate ?

blimey - get big Saint Yehhhh - Rafa out NOW

Finally someone starts talking sense

I actually have supported the boss in his methods, with a view to trusting him to find his way through the cr.ap inherited, bought-in, shipped-out and quality bought-in etc etc, to arrive at a formulae that will deliver success for the 'cloob'.

Rafa's built the players confidence and reputation of the back of some great CL campaigns.. and the experience and confidence boost from such success, helps build belief for a league assault and asttracting the best aka Torres.

He may be 'changing' less but he's now comfortable with the team and the personnell recruited - the right mentality etc - I believe in him to lead us to success, I'm just being patient and allowing the master to carve out the path after years of neglect, wrong turns and bumpy rides...

by **zarababe** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:26 am

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SHF5OvjAxgU&feature=related

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