The calm thread. - Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..............

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Postby Owzat » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:11 pm

stmichael wrote:
GYBS wrote:Also the reason why torres is misfiring is because we are playing 442 .

So you are effectively blaming Robbie Keane for Torres' poor form?

Keane decides the formation now does he?!?!?  :laugh:

I think there is a very strong chance Torres is more effective as a lone striker (with Gerrard just behind), Keane probably more with a Berbatov next to him more than a Torres. I think it's no coincidence that Torres' only goal this season came with Keane off the pitch and last time I checked, Torres had only spent around 70 mins without Keane also on the pitch compared to over 500 with.

Who knows, maybe Keane and Kuyt might work as a pairing up front. I'd possibly have left Kuyt on the bench last week and played Pennant against Stoke, with defending not a major problem and headless pace might have paid dividends!
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Postby stmichael » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:14 pm

GYBS wrote:he gelled so well with gerrard last year and want him to do so again.

But Gerrard doesn't like playing in that position. He's told the manager where his best position is, so that's ok then.  ???
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Postby GYBS » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:17 pm

Gerrard doesnt like playing in that position ?!?!!?Where did you get that from ??? It seemed to me he loved it there and produced some of his best football and even stated how much he gelled with torres and loved the partnership they created. Its playing out right that gerrard didnt want to play .
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Postby Owzat » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:20 pm

Nick Faldo consulted his players over the order they'd play the singles in the Ryder Cup, I couldn't believe it. Surely the role of the captain in that instance, and the manager in this, is THEY determine the tactics, who plays where etc Whether Gerrard "likes" playing in a position or not, if that is in the best interests of the team then he should play there. It is not like he will be asked to play in a role he's ineffective in.

And Gerrard scored a lot of goals last season, surely he can't argue with the results?
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Postby account deleted by request » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:23 pm

stmichael wrote:
GYBS wrote:Also the reason why torres is misfiring is because we are playing 442 .

So you are effectively blaming Robbie Keane for Torres' poor form?

No he's blaming Rafa for picking the formation and buying Keane........ he's obviously a Rafa hater ....... burn him.  :angry:








Just a little demonstration of how posts get taken out of context on here at times.   :D


Sorry GYBS no offence mate
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Postby stmichael » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:24 pm

Owzat wrote:Nick Faldo consulted his players over the order they'd play the singles in the Ryder Cup, I couldn't believe it. Surely the role of the captain in that instance, and the manager in this, is THEY determine the tactics, who plays where etc Whether Gerrard "likes" playing in a position or not, if that is in the best interests of the team then he should play there. It is not like he will be asked to play in a role he's ineffective in.

And Gerrard scored a lot of goals last season, surely he can't argue with the results?

Nail on head. He plays where the manager tells him to play, simple as.

The quotes are on the first page of the Gerrard box to box midfielder thread:

“In the summer I looked him (Rafa) in the eye and told him where I want to play, which is centre midfield,” he said. “I told him that the way I like to play, you get the most out of me when I’m box-to-box, defending at one end, throwing in tackles, then getting my passing game going and getting to the edge of the box for shots. I find it difficult to play how I want to in the other positions.

“I love it when a manager says to me, ‘You’re playing in the middle, I want you to go and run this game’. That’s music to my ears. Rafa told me, when the Robbie Keane deal went through, that his plan was to play Keane behind [Fernando] Torres and to drop me back to play centrally. I know Rafa Benitez better than most people now and in some games he’ll ask me to play different roles, but he knows what I prefer.”


As you have both said, goalscoring wise, his best two seasons came when he played one season on the right and the other just off the front man. No player should dictate to the manager where he plays. The team comes first.
Last edited by stmichael on Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby GYBS » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:28 pm

s@int wrote:
stmichael wrote:
GYBS wrote:Also the reason why torres is misfiring is because we are playing 442 .

So you are effectively blaming Robbie Keane for Torres' poor form?

No he's blaming Rafa for picking the formation and buying Keane........ he's obviously a Rafa hater ....... burn him.  :angry:








Just a little demonstration of how posts get taken out of context on here at times.   :D


Sorry GYBS no offence mate

:D

In this case i do think rafa has got it wrong - both in buyiing keane and playing 442 - i would of rather that 20 mil was spent on a wide attacking player
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Postby pass_da_dutchie » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:47 pm

GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
stmichael wrote:
GYBS wrote:Also the reason why torres is misfiring is because we are playing 442 .

So you are effectively blaming Robbie Keane for Torres' poor form?

No he's blaming Rafa for picking the formation and buying Keane........ he's obviously a Rafa hater ....... burn him.  :angry:








Just a little demonstration of how posts get taken out of context on here at times.   :D


Sorry GYBS no offence mate

:D

In this case i do think rafa has got it wrong - both in buyiing keane and playing 442 - i would of rather that 20 mil was spent on a wide attacking player

to replace Kuyt  :D
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Postby Yooj Bigullz » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:00 pm

GYBS wrote:No he's blaming Rafa for picking the formation and buying Keane........ he's obviously a Rafa hater ....... burn him.  :angry:








Just a little demonstration of how posts get taken out of context on here at times.   :D


Sorry GYBS no offence mate

:D

In this case i do think rafa has got it wrong - both in buyiing keane and playing 442 - i would of rather that 20 mil was spent on a wide attacking player[/quote]
I don't. Firstly because Crouch had to be replaced, and Keane has a very good league record

Secondly, 4231, or any fancy dan version of 451 is negative and second time round is in danger of being 'found out' - by that I mean stick a man marker on Gerrard and Torres becomes isolated and has very little supply. I think there is a time and a place for both formations, but in the league 442 is far less cautious. Credit to Rafa I think there because his negative mindset in previous seasons has achieved very little

On your other point mate, did you want an expensive left or right sided player? Anyone in mind?
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Postby GYBS » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:43 pm

pass_da_dutchie wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
stmichael wrote:
GYBS wrote:Also the reason why torres is misfiring is because we are playing 442 .

So you are effectively blaming Robbie Keane for Torres' poor form?

No he's blaming Rafa for picking the formation and buying Keane........ he's obviously a Rafa hater ....... burn him.  :angry:








Just a little demonstration of how posts get taken out of context on here at times.   :D


Sorry GYBS no offence mate

:D

In this case i do think rafa has got it wrong - both in buyiing keane and playing 442 - i would of rather that 20 mil was spent on a wide attacking player

to replace Kuyt  :D

yes as a right midfielder and fee up kuyt to support torres more.
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Postby Judge » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:57 pm

what does GYBS mean?
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Postby GYBS » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:00 pm

it was aplay on words from Andy :censored:wit Grays commentary when Gerrard scored that screamer against Olympiakos in 2004 - Think his words were get in there son you beauty
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Postby LFC2007 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:00 pm

maguskwt wrote:
aCe' wrote:a little objectivity is needed but if u think that everyone who criticizes kuyt or the manager is biased while ur not.. then uv got a little thinking to do there buddy..

first of all, if you read my last line abit more carefully again nowhere was I saying that everyone who criticisez kuyt or the manager is biased...I was saying that to think that it is mostly the happy clappers who gets under the skin of the criticiser is biased.... In fact I've criticised kuyt a few times myself I've criticised him for missing those sitters (against villa I think the point blank one and the one in the box... correct me if i'm wrong) just as I've criticised Babel for his finishing... I've criticised Kuyt for his poor first touches against marseille... I DON'T criticise him when we played for 120mins where everyone struggled but didn't give up against standard liege and he scored a goal in the end to send us through to the group stages of CL... I DON'T criticise him when the reason we didn't win a certain game is more down to our first choice strikers misfiring than Kuyt's game... to me whoever the player is Torres, Keane, Kuyt or Gerrard they should be equally liable for criticism. I will criticise about Torres, Gerrard, Alonso as much as I criticise about Kuyt. But most of the time it's 'kuyt is :censored:'... 'rafa is a clown'... in fact almost everytime from the same people whenever we lose or draw... it is senseless, it is old, it is boring. These ppl are looking for nothing but scapegoats imo for their disappointments instead of analysing the game and criticising objectively about why we didbadly.

You say people don't criticise kuyt and say he's :censored: because they say so... fair enough... but how bout backing up the criticism with some explanation... What about all the examples of senseless criticism that I just pointed out in my post? are these called for? Would you want your team to be thrashed 6-0 by arsenal in order to make a point? If after toiling for 120 mins your team went through to the CL grp stages because of Kuyt's goal, I don't care how much you hate the guy, or how much his first touch sucks, he deserves some appraisal and not criticism... if when rafa fielded one of the strongest possible line up against Stoke and you still end up criticising rafa for the team he puts out, then you probably needs to sort out your hatred... cause it's getting obsessive...

Yep, agreed there.

How often do you hear people say kuyt/Rafa are infallible, or make comments which imply as much?

Not all that often in comparison with how often you hear, 'Kuyt is a joke', Dirk 'Kunt', Rafa is 'bitter', 'a clown' etc.. along with the ingrained criticisms which plague the forum irrespective of how a player has performed relative to his teammates, or whether the manager has selected his strongest possible eleven.

To my mind, defending a player is normal, abusing your own manager/players, and even coaches is not normal and is unacceptable.
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Postby GYBS » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:04 pm

not forgetting people wanting Kuyt injured for a long time or saying he would be better for Liverpool if dead. can also add someone wanting liverpool thrashed 6-0 by arsenal just to shut up "happy clappers"
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Postby Judge » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:09 pm

GYBS wrote:it was aplay on words from Andy :censored:wit Grays commentary when Gerrard scored that screamer against Olympiakos in 2004 - Think his words were get in there son you beauty

i think you mean What A Hit Son 

:p

that means if you play the letters around you should be called WASH
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