Liverpool FC Forum

by **tubby** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:03 pm

Who is that kid in the pic?

by **JoeTerp** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:04 pm

bigmick wrote:It might make it a more interesting debate if the people who deplore the "cynical culture" actually engaged in football discussion as opposed to desperately trying to get under peoples skin all the time. Rather than decrying someones "lack of support", the fact that they are "not real fans" and the like, why not actually advance a sensible and coherant football argument to back up their "positivity"?

Why not venture an opinion of their own for once? I don't mean an opinion along the lines of Rafa or Van Basten picking Kuyt so therefore it must be right, I mean a sensible and considered opinion of their own. It hasn't got to be a long post, just a few sentences would do. That way we could discuss football, which after all is what most people come on here to do .

I never understood the whole "well Rafa knows more than you do so I think I will trust his judgement over yours"

No :censored:

Rafa knows more about football than everyone on here. That doesn't make him the Pope of football, and its very likely that other top managers would do things differently than Rafa has, so it is very much worth discussing what decisions Rafa has made that we agree with and disagree with based on our own opinion of the players and the game.

by **burjennio** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:11 pm

Mick ive stated more times than I can count what Kuyt brings to the team and I dont mean the much quoted "he works hard" and the replies I get back are either inaccurate claims that he never goes past anyone, he cant shoot or he has no pace, or more recently "retard", "idiot" and "clueless"

he passed the fullback multiple times on Sat, shot several times (wide of the mark but that was a criticism aimed at the whole team) and contributed as much as any other player in a red shirt, but low and behold he was slaughtered on here, and none of it is constructive - its either the same false claims that are always around or its personnal, and in my eyes none of it is accepable -especially when it decends into flaming

by **Judge** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:14 pm

burjennio wrote:Mick ive stated more times than I can count what Kuyt brings to the team and I dont mean the much quoted "he works hard" and the replies I get back are either inaccurate claims that he never goes past anyone, he cant shoot or he has no pace, or more recently "retard", "idiot" and "clueless"

he passed the fullback multiple times on Sat, shot several times (wide of the mark but that was a criticism aimed at the whole team) and contributed as much as any other player in a red shirt, but low and behold he was slaughtered on here, and none of it is constructive - its either the same false claims that are always around or its personnal, and in my eyes none of it is accepable -especially when it decends into flaming

yes, that maybe true, but when the rest of the lads raise, he (kuyt) cannot

by **bigmick** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:23 pm

Burj I wasn't actually referring to you in the post as I've read your input and you definately make a case for Kuyt pretty well. You've even being big enough to admit that whereas you didn't used to rate him at all, you've now concluded that you might have called it wrong. Some people rate Kuyt, some don't I just wish on both sides people would actually advance an opinion of their own and explain it.

Similarly LFC nobody can accuse you of not having an opinion and being prepared to voice it, no bother. GYBS has opinions but is sometimes I think a bit too ready to fall back on the stock "support the club and players" line, whereas Kazza doesn't seem to do football opinions anymore, preferring to talk about where people are from, what they do for a living, what their politics are, who they're married to, what level of football they've played and whether it's relevant etc etc.

I mean, someone got criticised a page or two ago for using the word "dude"

All I'm saying, is that rather than trying to have a pop at peoples personalities and trying to get them into a flame war, why don't we stick to the football and talk about that. If you've explained why you think Kuyt is worthy of a spot in the team until you're blue in the face, then fine just say so. No need for the personal stuff though from either side IMHO.

by **kazza** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:26 pm

Simply Bigmick that I have given up. I used to give my opinion but you just end up going in circles with no end so I keep it to myself. On a couple of occasions I have an opinion which has not been raised, so I say it. Most times however someone else has already made my point (more elequently than I could have) so I do not feel the need to duplicate it.

The comment of trying to get under peoples skin is way off whether I get under your skin or not (believe it or not the world is not revolving around you). Sometimes I read a post I disagree with so I say so. I post about a third of a post a day so I am hardly stalking anyone, despite what a couple of idiots may say. I do not have a problem with you Mick as you are steady in you reasoning and respectful of others. Does not mean you can't be full of cr@p sometimes.

No matter what you may think of me, surley you cannot condone some of the constant abuse some of our players get. Airing opinions is one thing, but constant abuse is out of order and cowardly. The kind of thing you can easily do behind the safety of your keyboard and that is not my style. If it were unfashionable to abuse our players, these same idiots will be saying how great everything is. I used to enjoy reading about my team, now I just end up feeling :censored:

off.

On a final note, defending players from abuse is consistant with supporting my team, the way I understand it anyway.

by **LFC2007** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:39 pm

PM now on its way after a short postal strike

by **kazza** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:42 pm

bigmick wrote:All I'm saying, is that rather than trying to have a pop at peoples personalities and trying to get them into a flame war,

When people start attacking Liverpool players because they are too tall or too ugly or whatever else,then they are fair game, if that makes me an @sshole then I will wear that badge proudly.

Mick, if someone abuses your friend or someone you like would you not stand up for them, because I will stand up for those I like. Liverpool players that give 100% will always get my support.

by **burjennio** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:52 pm

this has all been too much for me, i need a hug :sniffle

by **pass_da_dutchie** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:22 pm

The common theme amongst too many fans is simple. They have a distinct disliking for someone or something and aren't (wo)man enough to admit they called it wrong. Now don't get me wrong I'm not for one minute suggesting one good game here and there means a player is suddenly a world beater but it seems to me anyway that good enough will never be good enough for some fans. Kuyt could score a hattrick on Saturday, create another four and still be slaughtered for the first minute pass that went out of play. He just happens to be one of the players that fans are divided on. Now like I've said that one hattrick and those four assists don't take away the fact that he's still poor in certain areas but it does mean however he deserves some praise.

What a lot of fans fail to realise (or remember) is what this club was built on. Ground (that's a joke you can laugh). Seriously though this club was built on always looking forward. We won the European Cup in 77 for the first time in our history, Bob Paisley instantly got the players looking ahead for the 77/78 season, not poncing around being cocker hoop that they'd won the biggest trophy in club football. That's what we need to do. Yes Dirk Kuyt might play more bad games than bad, yes Rafa Benitez might make tactical decisions that not even he understands and yes fans are entitled to an opinion but for :censored:

sake we are Liverpool Football Club and it's that word CLUB that's important. It means we're all pulling in the same direction, it means we all want the same success to fall on our club, we are all united on at least common ground, so stop being so :censored:

petty and making side arguements for the sake of it. Stop bringing up posts that were five pages previous and actually accept another person's opinion because that's all it is. An opinion. Not a fact but an opinion. Read it, respect it, respond to it in a respectful way. Another thing this club has always been famous for is it's respect for others. Some people could do with remembering what club they supposedly support.

by **NANNY RED** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:42 pm

I thought this was the calm thread were everyone was chilled. Looks a bit to frosty for my liking now :laugh:

by **GYBS** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:43 pm

dont go near the kuyt thread then nanny

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:35 am

I disagree with people slagging off our players, but I see nothing wrong in saying a player is too slow, or just not good enough. Its like Rafa some people think he can do no wrong..... others that he makes the odd mistake, as long as BOTH sides keep it to reasonable limits I see nothing wrong with either point of view. No need to say he's an idiot, or he should be sacked every week.

This forum is supposed to be somewhere that people can give their honest opinion, if people disagree they should be free to say so, but the level of abuse towards posters mainly by the "Happy clappers" imo is ruining the forum.

Someone saying Rafa is a genius doesn't get told to shut the fk up etc etc while someone politely expressing doubts or concerns about a team performance, a player, or Rafa etc is seen as an easy target of abuse.

We arn't at the match, where I am sure we would all back the team and the players 100%, we are on a football forum where our opinions don't really matter except to the few that read them. Rafa is not going to drop Kuyt because a poster explains in great detail why he is a liability, just as he is not going to pick Pennant because someone thinks its a great idea to give him a chance.

I don't think I have ever slagged one of our players or Rafa off, but no doubt I have gone further with my criticisms than I would like or feel comfortable with in retrospect....... being spurred on by the outlandish claims and abuse received on occasion. Similarly I am sure others exaggerate and harden their own opinions when faced with my criticisms.

I openly admit I have doubts about Rafa being the man to bring us back the title, or Kuyt being good enough to be a regular first team player. That doesn't mean I don't respect them, think they are doing the best they can, that they are idiots or anything similar. Just honest doubts.

by **Igor Zidane** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:43 am

s@int wrote:I disagree with people slagging off our players, but I see nothing wrong in saying a player is too slow, or just not good enough. Its like Rafa some people think he can do no wrong..... others that he makes the odd mistake, as long as BOTH sides keep it to reasonable limits I see nothing wrong with either point of view. No need to say he's an idiot, or he should be sacked every week.

This forum is supposed to be somewhere that people can give their honest opinion, if people disagree they should be free to say so, but the level of abuse towards posters mainly by the "Happy clappers" imo is ruining the forum.

Someone saying Rafa is a genius doesn't get told to shut the fk up etc etc while someone politely expressing doubts or concerns about a team performance, a player, or Rafa etc is seen as an easy target of abuse.

We arn't at the match, where I am sure we would all back the team and the players 100%, we are on a football forum where our opinions don't really matter except to the few that read them. Rafa is not going to drop Kuyt because a poster explains in great detail why he is a liability, just as he is not going to pick Pennant because someone thinks its a great idea to give him a chance.

I don't think I have ever slagged one of our players or Rafa off, but no doubt I have gone further with my criticisms than I would like or feel comfortable with in retrospect....... being spurred on by the outlandish claims and abuse received on occasion. Similarly I am sure others exaggerate and harden their own opinions when faced with my criticisms.

I openly admit I have doubts about Rafa being the man to bring us back the title, or Kuyt being good enough to be a regular first team player. That doesn't mean I don't respect them, think they are doing the best they can, that they are idiots or anything similar. Just honest doubts.

Agreed saint , and when you get posts like this and bigmicks , it makes things so much easier to discuss . It makes it so much easier to agree to disagree and get on with it .

It's when you get stupid posts ,wanting players injured or posts that sound of real hatred towards one of our own players . This makes it hard to discuss sensibly and to tell someone that there talking aload of :censored:

in a forthright manner is pretty warranted imo.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:14 am

Igor Zidane wrote:
s@int wrote:I disagree with people slagging off our players, but I see nothing wrong in saying a player is too slow, or just not good enough. Its like Rafa some people think he can do no wrong..... others that he makes the odd mistake, as long as BOTH sides keep it to reasonable limits I see nothing wrong with either point of view. No need to say he's an idiot, or he should be sacked every week.

This forum is supposed to be somewhere that people can give their honest opinion, if people disagree they should be free to say so, but the level of abuse towards posters mainly by the "Happy clappers" imo is ruining the forum.

Someone saying Rafa is a genius doesn't get told to shut the fk up etc etc while someone politely expressing doubts or concerns about a team performance, a player, or Rafa etc is seen as an easy target of abuse.

We arn't at the match, where I am sure we would all back the team and the players 100%, we are on a football forum where our opinions don't really matter except to the few that read them. Rafa is not going to drop Kuyt because a poster explains in great detail why he is a liability, just as he is not going to pick Pennant because someone thinks its a great idea to give him a chance.

I don't think I have ever slagged one of our players or Rafa off, but no doubt I have gone further with my criticisms than I would like or feel comfortable with in retrospect....... being spurred on by the outlandish claims and abuse received on occasion. Similarly I am sure others exaggerate and harden their own opinions when faced with my criticisms.

I openly admit I have doubts about Rafa being the man to bring us back the title, or Kuyt being good enough to be a regular first team player. That doesn't mean I don't respect them, think they are doing the best they can, that they are idiots or anything similar. Just honest doubts.

Agreed saint , and when you get posts like this and bigmicks , it makes things so much easier to discuss . It makes it so much easier to agree to disagree and get on with it .

It's when you get stupid posts ,wanting players injured or posts that sound of real hatred towards one of our own players . This makes it hard to discuss sensibly and to tell someone that there talking aload of in a forthright manner is pretty warranted imo.

Thats what I don't really understand Igor, I can understand anyone saying pretty much anything in the match thread...... a player misses a chance ......... he's cr@p etc etc. We lose a game ...... sack Rafa. I am not saying its right ......but in the heat of the game I can understand it. In the other threads there is just no need.

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