Liverpool FC Forum

by **pass_da_dutchie** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:03 am

Saint don't use stats mate, they're a waste of time. Stats will not show the chances Keane created that his strike partner has shamed high, wide and not all that handsome. Nor will they show the chances Keane created that his strike partner has got a shot away but the keeper has pulled a great save off. Nor will they show the chances Keane has created only for the linesman to be flagging for offside when it clearly isn't. I will never look at stats when judging a player.

I think I misunderstood the statement though Saint (which I've now corrected) I didn't mean Keane was a great creative second forward (although that's what I had origionally put) I meant Keane was a creative forward, which he is. Maybe not a second forward in the Rooney mould but he is a creative forward.

by **aCe'** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:05 am

s@int wrote:
pass_da_dutchie wrote:Well in all fairness Saint, Robbie Keane is a creative second forward. His whole game is taking up positions where he can influence the game, but as I've already said he feeds of knock downs or somebody being able to hold the ball up. Fernando Torres would rather run the chanels which leaves Keane in no mans land. The one player who both Keane and Torres would feed off is Peter Crouch yet we decided to let him go.

Anyway that's in the past, the current situation is these two need as much time at Melwood and during the 90 minutes of a match as possible together. Keane constantly being substituted or not playing at all isn't going to help these two build up that relationship they need. They both need to alter their game to suit the other. Keane needs to hold his runs and pull defenders out with him so Torres can run in behind, while Torres needs to be a bit more physical and win the long ball every now and then.

There is no way on gods green earth that Keane is a creative second striker mate, never has been never ever will be. He has made a TOTAL of 8 assists in 3 seasons. I would expect between 10-15 assists from a top class creative second striker PER SEASON I.E. Rooney 10 assists last season .... 11 assists year before.

good post... keanes never a second striker and if he cant score them hes pretty useless imo... having said that i still expect him to score a few...
20 million striker though.. not in a million years !

by **Kharhaz** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:06 am

Ive always rated Keane as a player, and on form he offers a lot potential for the forward line. The fact is Spurs never played him much, because many games he was absent but when he was on form he was good. Which is why I questioned and still question and will forever question the £20 million rafa paid for him. I agree with saint to a point. He can make a change, on form he is very good, but not even spurs saw much of that. He will have many good games for us, but he will have more "off" games than good.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:12 am

pass_da_dutchie wrote:Saint don't use stats mate, they're a waste of time. Stats will not show the chances Keane created that his strike partner has shamed high, wide and not all that handsome. Nor will they show the chances Keane created that his strike partner has got a shot away but the keeper has pulled a great save off. Nor will they show the chances Keane has created only for the linesman to be flagging for offside when it clearly isn't. I will never look at stats when judging a player.

I think I misunderstood the statement though Saint (which I've now corrected) I didn't mean Keane was a great creative second forward (although that's what I had origionally put) I meant Keane was a creative forward, which he is. Maybe not a second forward in the Rooney mould but he is a creative forward.

Stats have their uses, but putting that to one side for now mate, I agree he is a good creative striker who can conjure goals up out of nothing, has plenty of flicks and tricks and will always score goals, as I am sure he soon will for us.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:12 pm

One thing I am very greatful for is that Alonso played against Stoke. If he hadn't we would have been inundated with new threads and posts declaring how Masch and Gerrard will never work as a midfield pairing.......we need Alonso's vision ...... if only Alonso had played ........ Alonso would have created much more.....and hundreds of similar thoughts (and thats only from Sabre

)

At least with us playing very much a strong team against Stoke we know that any shortfalls in our game would not be remedied quite so easily. No one would expect that the reason we didn't score was because Masch or Lucas didn't play for example.

Many posters seem to think it was just a one off, a bad day at the office, and that 99 times out of a hundred we would have won. I am not so sure, we have struggled to score in EVERY GAME THIS SEASON, so struggling to score against a packed defence should come as no surprise, even against a team as poor as Stoke.

For whatever reason Torres and Keane arn't firing on all cylinders yet, Kuyts not scored a league goal since Adam was in short pants, while the rest of the team that started against Stoke apart from Gerrard, havent scored a league goal between them since surprisingly enough KUYTS GOAL against Newcastle in NOVEMBER last year. So to say its a surprise that we are struggling to score is a little misleading, when of the team picked 9 have yet to open their league account for the season.

Admittedly some of the players are new so couldn't have contributed league goals last season, but I think it does show our lack of goals from all areas other than Gerrard and Torres.

by **Judge** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:58 pm

i think stoke was a blip, even though i said it was a cr@p result. I think that if we grind out 1 nil or 2-1 results and not play well, then we will be in with a shout of the league come april.

manure have done that before, and won the league, why not us!

by **RedEire** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:44 pm

A lot of people have mentioned that point that the partnership of Torres and Keane need time to gel - and especially match time as nothing beats actual match time for players. That is why I thought it was a very poor decision to take Keane off last weekend against Stoke. Here was an opposition that was making no effort to attack us, so we could have easily sacrificed a midfielder or even defender when Rafa decided to bring Benayoun on. Taking a forward off and bringing on a midfielder to me is a backward step, not an offensive move to try and get a goal. Keane had two good chances on saturday with the second one slightly better than the first and at least making the goalkeeper work. Surely this game was screaming out for him to stay on and do one better than the last two chances. Benayoun is an attack minded midfielder but his lack of control and vision (which was crucial considering the amount of Stoke players back defending in their own box) seriously weakened our chances of scoring. Strikers like Keane/Torres often will play a match and get only 4 or 5 kicks of the ball but out of one of them, they are usually in the right place and score. Bringing a player like Benayoun on at that time, to me, was a negative move by Rafa, and I would feel sorry for Keane as his seach for this elusive first goal continues

by **Judge** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:59 pm

RedEire wrote:A lot of people have mentioned that point that the partnership of Torres and Keane need time to gel - and especially match time as nothing beats actual match time for players. That is why I thought it was a very poor decision to take Keane off last weekend against Stoke. Here was an opposition that was making no effort to attack us, so we could have easily sacrificed a midfielder or even defender when Rafa decided to bring Benayoun on. Taking a forward off and bringing on a midfielder to me is a backward step, not an offensive move to try and get a goal. Keane had two good chances on saturday with the second one slightly better than the first and at least making the goalkeeper work. Surely this game was screaming out for him to stay on and do one better than the last two chances. Benayoun is an attack minded midfielder but his lack of control and vision (which was crucial considering the amount of Stoke players back defending in their own box) seriously weakened our chances of scoring. Strikers like Keane/Torres often will play a match and get only 4 or 5 kicks of the ball but out of one of them, they are usually in the right place and score. Bringing a player like Benayoun on at that time, to me, was a negative move by Rafa, and I would feel sorry for Keane as his seach for this elusive first goal continues

good shout mate

by **GYBS** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:07 am

Great thread to start - i can see lots of positives so far this season with the odd neagtive but still hopeful. the worst thing i have read on here thou is someone wanting a liverpool player to be injured and out for a long time - that in itself is a disgrace and no true Liverpool Fan would ever think that , im shocked.

by **Judge** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:06 am

GYBS wrote:Great thread to start - i can see lots of positives so far this season with the odd neagtive but still hopeful. the worst thing i have read on here thou is someone wanting a liverpool player to be injured and out for a long time - that in itself is a disgrace and no true Liverpool Fan would ever think that , im shocked.

who said that?

by **Ciggy** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:08 am

Judge wrote:
GYBS wrote:Great thread to start - i can see lots of positives so far this season with the odd neagtive but still hopeful. the worst thing i have read on here thou is someone wanting a liverpool player to be injured and out for a long time - that in itself is a disgrace and no true Liverpool Fan would ever think that , im shocked.

who said that?

Someone said they wanted Kuyt to get injured.

by **GYBS** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:26 am

think it was near the start - think it was heimdall who said it . Dont care if people dont think a person isnt good enough for us etc but wishing injury on them is pretty shocking if you ask me .

by **Yooj Bigullz** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:22 am

That's terrible. Kuyts worth more to the club dead than injured

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:25 am

Yooj Bigullz wrote:That's terrible. Kuyts worth more to the club dead than injured

peewee get your gun mate

by **112-1077774096** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:35 am

s@int wrote:
Yooj Bigullz wrote:That's terrible. Kuyts worth more to the club dead than injured

peewee get your gun mate

i found this picture of him as a kid

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