Liverpool FC Forum

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:40 pm

s@int wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:Certain people used to be of the opinion that Rafa was a better manager than Dalglish, now they consider it a no contest.

How things change.

strange that

rafa better then dalglish? their havng a laugh arent they?

by **112-1077774096** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:06 am

heimdall wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:I've got an idea - I'm a bit bored waiting to go out...

Just because I can, I'll post up the performance ratios of all the so-called "top" managers at this club:

Coming in at number one, it's.....

John McKenna, with a wins percentage of 61.82%

At number two, enjoying a period of utter dominance, Mr Kenny Dalglish, with 60.71%.

Third in line? Bob Paisley: 56.08%.

Fourth? It's Rafa the Gaffer: 54.84%.

Fifth? Shared by Messers Fagan and Shankly: 52.38%.

Seventh place goes to: David Ashworth: 51.18%

And I really can't be bothered to go any further. Suffice to say that Rafa is easily one of the best managers we've had.

Funny isn't it, that people forget that the others actually lost matches, too...

Shankly had a loss rate of 22.7%.

Dalglish had a loss rate of 14.3%.

Paisley, 17.7%.

Rafa, 21.9%.

Awful record, that...

And before the "It's too many draws that do us..." argument rears it's ugly little head, here are those stats:

Shankly: 25%.

Paisley: 26%.

Dalglish: 25%.

Rafa: 23%.

We REALLY need to stop all these draws...

Oh, and one final nail in the coffin of all this doom and gloom:

These stats are reflective of LEAGUE GAMES ONLY, shattering this illusion that Rafa's good record is due to the cups.

Damn, I'm good.

So now you like stats. ffs make your mind up.

It was interesting though

where does he come in winning the title? i would think thats an important stat

by **112-1077774096** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:13 am

can't be bothered to do a list but the stats are here

wiki wiki

by **bigmick** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:16 am

When they said Rafa was a better manager than Dalgish (I must confess I don't know who said it) they probably weren't having a laugh no. I do remember Rafa being described as being Shanklyesque by some a couple of years back, they were serious too. There is still time of course for Rafa to show he has what it takes to be regarded as being "hugely successful" ( as he was described the other day) by everyone and not just people who get a bit carried away.

by **metalhead** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:20 am

bigmick wrote:When they said Rafa was a better manager than Dalgish (I must confess I don't know who said it) they probably weren't having a laugh no. I do remember Rafa being described as being Shanklyesque by some a couple of years back, they were serious too. There is still time of course for Rafa to show he has what it takes to be regarded as being "hugely successful" ( as he was described the other day) by everyone and not just people who get a bit carried away.

Its all about patience mate, people jump the rafa "out" bandwagon just when the season starts, wait till the end of it and then we can decide if he is hugely successful or not (that will be his 5th year).

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:25 am

metalhead wrote:
bigmick wrote:When they said Rafa was a better manager than Dalgish (I must confess I don't know who said it) they probably weren't having a laugh no. I do remember Rafa being described as being Shanklyesque by some a couple of years back, they were serious too. There is still time of course for Rafa to show he has what it takes to be regarded as being "hugely successful" ( as he was described the other day) by everyone and not just people who get a bit carried away.

Its all about patience mate, people jump the rafa "out" bandwagon just when the season starts, wait till the end of it and then we can decide if he is hugely successful or not (that will be his 5th year).

I don't think anyone is jumping on the Rafa out bandwagon Metalhead(not unless we lose tomorrow anyway mate

)Just having genuine doubts.

by **maguskwt** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:27 am

bigmick wrote:When they said Rafa was a better manager than Dalgish (I must confess I don't know who said it) they probably weren't having a laugh no. I do remember Rafa being described as being Shanklyesque by some a couple of years back, they were serious too. There is still time of course for Rafa to show he has what it takes to be regarded as being "hugely successful" ( as he was described the other day) by everyone and not just people who get a bit carried away.

There is still time for rafa to achieve something that even the legendary managers did not... that is to have won the CL (european cup), FA Cup and the league...

by **Ciggy** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:28 am

bigmick wrote:When they said Rafa was a better manager than Dalgish (I must confess I don't know who said it) they probably weren't having a laugh no. I do remember Rafa being described as being Shanklyesque by some a couple of years back, they were serious too. There is still time of course for Rafa to show he has what it takes to be regarded as being "hugely successful" ( as he was described the other day) by everyone and not just people who get a bit carried away.

When Rafa is given ATLEAST 200 million pound to invest in our team and he fecks it up then he must go.
People are expecting miracles on a less budget than the mancs & Chelsea we will not win the prem until we have the type of player these two teams have.

The miracle of istanbul is just what it was A miracle.

But the prem is a marathon not a sprint and people are expecting him to win it just cause he won us the CL.
We are spolied now we are taking the CL for granted like we have always been the usual suspects in it.

What short memories these people have Rafa has put us back on the map in that competition.
A bit of apriciation wouldnt go a miss instead of Rafa out Kuyt out chants all the time.

Would Mourhino have won the league with our team when he took over Chelsea NO.
Would arl Gin Soaked b@stard NO.

If some people dont take a shine to someone then thats it they dont get another chance its just get rid hes cr@p!!!!

by **metalhead** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:30 am

s@int wrote:
metalhead wrote:
bigmick wrote:When they said Rafa was a better manager than Dalgish (I must confess I don't know who said it) they probably weren't having a laugh no. I do remember Rafa being described as being Shanklyesque by some a couple of years back, they were serious too. There is still time of course for Rafa to show he has what it takes to be regarded as being "hugely successful" ( as he was described the other day) by everyone and not just people who get a bit carried away.

Its all about patience mate, people jump the rafa "out" bandwagon just when the season starts, wait till the end of it and then we can decide if he is hugely successful or not (that will be his 5th year).

I don't think anyone is jumping on the Rafa out bandwagon Metalhead(not unless we lose tomorrow anyway mate )Just having genuine doubts.

oh no some people on here Already jumped the bandwagon and then took off

I understand people having doubts, its normal, everyone has his or her opinion.

by **LFC2007** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:46 am

bigmick wrote:When they said Rafa was a better manager than Dalgish (I must confess I don't know who said it) they probably weren't having a laugh no.

Correct.

It's possible that those who thought Rafa was a better manager than Dalglish two years ago - who now consider it to be a no contest (in favour of Dalglish - obviously) - could be described as 'fickle', but I wouldn't be so damning. Periodical happy-clappiness can get the better of everyone.

by **bigmick** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:52 am

I think as a supporter of the club you always appreciate the manager. As I've said many times, I actually think he's done a reasonable enough job under the circumstances. He has had the third most amount of money to spend in the prem, and by and large we've come in third or fourth which is reasonable enough if that's the criteria he is to be judged on. We have qualified for the Champions League each season he's been here (albeit with a fifth place finish in one season) which is good, and in the Champions League we have progressed out of the group each time which is up to standard IMHO.

FWIW I actually think his Champions League record is excellent as I've said many times, and I think it could be even better. Had we not lapsed into a wee bit of styling in our other final appearance, I have a strong feeling we'd have beaten Milan but I guess we'll never know. Other than that (and even including that) we've had a good run each year which is lovely.

I do only take issue when people get a bit carried away. Rafa is not in my view worthy of Shankly comparisons, neither is he worthy of being described as better than Dalglish or "hugely successful" as Liverpool manager. He still of course may become that, but not so far in my view. Now we've gone and spent 110 million quid in the last fourteen months or so the gap in spending is narrowing a fraction as well which is good.

So in a nutshell, in my opinion he has done a decent enough job. We haven't challenged for then title once in four years though, and we've never beaten Manchester United in the league, haven't scored a goal against them in the last seven matches and have won 4 times in 24 attempts against other big four teams. With this in mind, for me his record decent, but it's no more than that.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:54 am

It was Lando Mick, (if you really didn't know :;):

), I know because I was the one arguing with him !

Nothing wrong in changing your mind, as long as you don't do it too often, and I don't think thats something we could accuse Lando of !

by **LFC2007** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:00 am

It's not Lando.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:08 am

LFC2007 wrote:It's not Lando.

It was Lando arguing with me, I even had to defend Dalglish's record at NEWCASTLE!

by **LegBarnes** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:29 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
babu wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:EDITED

that's well out of line.

0ut of line i was joking with lando and you go and edit me when he has said far worse.

This forum is a joke some times with what you can type and what you can't.

By the way its called sarcasm.

Actually, it's called being unnecessarily vulgar and I've had my fill of it.

Oh so that's why I'm seeing fewer posts from Lando these days.

Lando when you are going on the attack next time at least try and make a coherent and lucid point. Picking a microscopic subsection of statistics to prove a point is silly and neither proves or disproves the worth of statistics but you have demonstrated firstly how statsitics can be manipulated and secondly that you're not quite as clever as you think. Statistics only measure what has happened in the past so I fail to see how they can be used to predict the future, except in the sense they can be used to predict trends, which is probably what Owzat was trying to show in the first place.
Overall thogh statistics are only a pointer and I actually agree that they aren't the be all of everything but they are a good place to start.

Do you want me to send you a few photos of me in the buff lad?

Because this is bordering upon obsession...

I really can't see the point in my explaining this, as you haven't even grasped the fact that I was merely proving that stats can show anything. A fellow poster has said "it's called sarcasm" - I'll let you look it up.

To think that you actually agree with the point I was making, yet you still feel the need to have an ill-thought-out dig...

I agreed with you lando and had a slight joke and got my post edited tho i was not being abusive just 1 swear word when i read much worse on here and don't get edited.

Don't get me wrong if that is no no I won't use it but please keep it consisant please and don't single out just some of us.

I meen then you be nothing better then a football REF. not a forum mod.

Also I know you job isn't easy just asking for some fairness.

Back to topic yes stats can be used to prove any point but also the same stats can be used (sometimes) to also disprove the same point so imo stats are mostly useless.

They are good tho for performace checking , bad for creative thinking.

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