Liverpool FC Forum

by **dawson99** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:50 pm

im not saying we dont need someone to play tha slot in role that keane should have done, like rooey does for tevez or did, but im just saying that gerrard can be creative in his attacking and does worry defenders... alot!

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:56 pm

i dont think gerrard is creative enough for that role. he can play it but he has a very direct approach compared to others. too direct.

by **dawson99** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:00 pm

yet his assists and goals are quite high yeah?

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:03 pm

well when u have a player like torres in front of you, your assists surely are high. lampard scores and create too

by **Fo Dne** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:05 pm

dawson99 wrote:also, whos scored more goals? stevie or scholes? So, Scholes is the betetr more creative and brilliant player... yet stevie scores more, sets up more, defends more.. actually does everything mroe than the ginger little tw@t?

yeah, im clueless
but i respect your opinion and will not resort to name calling my friend

Yeah and who's won more League titles, European cups, FA cups and everything else?

Point proven lad.

by **dawson99** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:09 pm

so fletcher is better than gerrard as well?

by **Fo Dne** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:11 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:i think stu is being misunderstood here....

He is.

Comparing the likes of Fabergas, Scholes, Zidan etc etc, and players of this mould, is like arguing why square pegs don't fit into round holes. They are completely different types of players, and I agree, Gerrard is not really that creative of a player. He thinks too laterally, and doesn't think outside the box often enough. Even little Luise Garcia was more creative in and around the box that Steve is. How often do you see Gerrard look to fool a defender with a bit of skill, and then slot the ball into space with a cheeky reverse pass in the other direction he's looking in? Never. Steve has one thing on his mind when he gets near the area, and that's to pull the trigger or to try and break into the box himself.

However, I disagree with the point that Gerrard is not suited as a creative force when holding inside the circle. It really depends on that type of game that's being played. Too often teams will camp on the edge of their area against us. This does not suit Gerrard's style of play because he only knows how to play at one speed, and that's at 100mph. He's a tempo setter, and if teams don't want to open up, then Gerrard often get's resigned to pushing out wide and throwing crosses into the box, negating the strong parts of his game. When defenses set themselves higher up the park, this is where Gerrard comes into his own in the center as a creative force, as he likes those raking through balls and cross-field passes that most defenses have trouble dealing with. A prime example of this was Torres' first goal against Chelsea last season.

Well said.

For once.

by **Fo Dne** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:16 pm

dawson99 wrote:so fletcher is better than gerrard as well?

Fletchers not a regular.

The fact is you're using a :censored:

arguement so why shouldn't I?

Next you'll start telling me Lampard's as good as Gerrard because of his goals and assists aswell!

:no

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:21 pm

dawson99 wrote:so fletcher is better than gerrard as well?

you're clutching at straws dawson

by **dawson99** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:23 pm

well scholes was slow, he fouled too much, and he was a cheat. i can never admit hes betetr at stevie at anything. stevie runs, tackles, passes, scores, sets up. you're right, hes better suited to his best position. but i wouldnt swap him for anything. id give hm more freedom, let him decide what he does as rafa hasnt got a clue

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:27 pm

no one's saying we wanna swap stevie. i thought kuyt was your boy dawson?

by **dawson99** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:27 pm

kuyts legendary, we all dream of a team of dirk kuyts

by **GOAT_2.0** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:01 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
dawson99 wrote:also, whos scored more goals? stevie or scholes? So, Scholes is the betetr more creative and brilliant player... yet stevie scores more, sets up more, defends more.. actually does everything mroe than the ginger little tw@t?

yeah, im clueless
but i respect your opinion and will not resort to name calling my friend

Yeah and who's won more League titles, European cups, FA cups and everything else?

Point proven lad.

Eh, well I think thats a bit unfair seeing as scholes is in a better team?

by **Fo Dne** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:14 pm

GOAT_2.0 wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
dawson99 wrote:also, whos scored more goals? stevie or scholes? So, Scholes is the betetr more creative and brilliant player... yet stevie scores more, sets up more, defends more.. actually does everything mroe than the ginger little tw@t?

yeah, im clueless
but i respect your opinion and will not resort to name calling my friend

Yeah and who's won more League titles, European cups, FA cups and everything else?

Point proven lad.

Eh, well I think thats a bit unfair seeing as scholes is in a better team?

Yeah, and using the goals and assists excuse is unfair considering they are completely different styles of player with completely different strengths and weaknesses.

by **bigmick** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:28 pm

Shame it had to descend into insults but an interesting thread nontheles. As for the main spat, I think Gerrards plenty creative enough to play pretty much anywhare you want him. This will no doubt send some people into fits of rage, but all you need to do really is look for a definition of the word "creative". There's no question he doesn't do the Scholesesque reverse pass as well as the Man Utd man (and few do, Scholes has been a wonderful player over the years), he doesn't do the perfectly timed ghost into space like a Fabregas, or have the subtlety and grace of movement of a Zidane, or the cheek of a Luis Garcia. Neither do they though have the burst of afterburn pace and power of a Gerrard, none of them with the exception of Scholes has a shot from distance which possesses then same danger as Gerrard, few of them if any have Roy of the Rovers lung burst into an area where they will have an opportunity to make mayhem and break the game.

A different type of creativity in each I'll grant you, but creative all the same. Because ultimately, you have to ask what is creativity? Is is the creation of danger, of chances, of goals, of situations which change football matches? If it is, our man has it in spades. Or is it more the dictation of tempo, of rhythm, the drum beat of the team with a Riquelmi like give and go, show and feint, take and recieve type of player who seems to be on the ball all the time, the fulcrum of a football team.

If it's the second one, Gerrards not like that. He can be out of the game for long periods, off colour, Stevie me, sulking and then burst onto the scene with one moment of magic and win it for you. Two of the trophies which the manager has put into Liverpools trophy cabinet are as a direct result of such interventions, so I think it would be churlish to diminish his creative imput. Clearly he scores goals, the stats tell us that and he makes goals, ditto. Equally it's safe to assume that as he requires instant closing down whenever he recieves the ball within thirty yards of the opposition goal, he makes a deal of space for others as well. He is capable of subtlety in his pass, but just doesn't do it as often for whatever reason. On my recent wembley excursion, the two or three moments of pure balletic quality and beauty within the match were provided by subtle Gerrared interventions, with one little reverse pass to the hapless Defoe being the moment of the night from an England perspective.

As for who is his ideal partner, I'm not so sure anymore. I kind of agree with Stu on the point about one staying and one going etc etc. This notion of a "defensive" midfielder, a "sitter" etc etc is a fairly modern invention. Sounness and Mcdermott both used to score regularly, as indeed did Keane and Scholes before the Irishmans crippling injuries meant he had to become more circumspect. I think the reason Lampard and Gerrard don't "gel" is that the Chelsea man pays no attention whatsover to his defensive duties, and lacks the pace anyhow to get up and down. perhaps the sight of Masherano venturing forward more and more this season is something which has been worked on, though I must confess again to a frustration that Alonso never made those strides. I live in hope we might one day see that particular "option".

As for the Man Utd being able to break down teams who pile men behind the ball thing, I think the reason is probably not that they have players who are individually better at breaking down such outfits. There are two main reasons they are better at it than us I think. Firstly of course they play with much more fluidity, better movement, higher tempo, they move the ball much quicker and are therefore constantly stretching a defensive unit until it eventually breaks. In short, they are a better team. Secondly, they possess many people who like Gerrard pose a threat on their own without the assistance of great team play. I am absolutely certain that if Gerrard played for them God forbid, he would look pretty creative alongside their players and within their team. Unfortunately however, when he plays with us it is only him and Torres who provide a goal threat (or at least it has been for the last season and a half) so it is therefore easier to shut them out.

All in all though, whether or not we feel his creative "attributes" stack up to some other players from around the World, i remain convinced that as Liverpool fans we are extremely fortunate to have Gerrard in the team. I have absolutely no doubts whatsoever, that only when he has retired will Liverpool fans really appreciate how good he was.

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