Liverpool FC Forum

by **bunglemark2** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:13 am

LiverpoolMadman wrote:I think you get it wrong, there's no anti rafa here, there are just fans who wants to see Liverpool performing very well and win "handsomely".

WE ARE LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB, we are not hull city, sunderland or some other small clubs. WE ARE LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB.

Are you for real ? No anti-Rafa here ?
Get help
:sniffle

by **bigmick** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:19 am

GYBS wrote:
LiverpoolMadman wrote:
GYBS wrote::D

sounds a good plan

Also is there anyway all these anti rafa threads can be just merged into one so the same people can just carry on there constant anti rafa stuff ?

I think you get it wrong, there's no anti rafa here, there are just fans who wants to see Liverpool performing very well and win "handsomely".

WE ARE LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB, we are not hull city, sunderland or some other small clubs. WE ARE LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB.

Im sorry but there is plnety of anti rafa here just like plenty of anti kuyt.

With the greatest of respect, it's a Liverpool supporters forum. If you think people are being unduly "anti" Rafa, then say so and argue your corner. A sensible argument isn't though that those people have no right to air their opinion.

For too long those that believe the manager makes less mistakes have tried to claim some sort of moral high ground by denouncing the opinion of any doubters. If somebody is being abusive towards the team or the manager, then they deserve telling. If on the other hand somebody takes the time to put their thoughts into a lengthly post about where they think the manager is going wrong, people ought to either enter the debate or give it a miss.

Bleating about people not being true fans, being too anti the manager, being disloyal etc has been done to death for four years and is a busted flush. We've spent well in excess of 100 million quid in the last fourteen months and some people think that means we ought to have a team which is capable of playing decent football. They think that if we play Away at Aston Villa we ought to be able to muster one shot on target at least. They think that perhaps we ought to challenge for the title (not win it, challenge for it) at some point during a four/five year period. They think that buying a striker for 20 million quid and then in his third league appearance playing him on the left wing is a bit odd. When our lone striker gets injured and has to leave the pitch, they think it's even more strange when that aforementioned striker isn't pushed up into his natural position, but is left out on the left wing. They may be wrong to have some or all of these concerns, but have them they do and they are as entitled to their opinion as you are to yours.

If you disagree with them, say so and explain why.

by **lakes10** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:21 am

LOOK

We all know the Owners need to go, yes they have held back money from Rafa so he could not get the PLAYER (not players) he was after.
Yes they dont have the money for a new ground (again we know they ned to go).

but Rafa has been the one to sell off some of our good players, he is the one that rested players before CL games and made us get to many draws, he is the one that makes mad subs.

But what is more for me is the selling of our players. i just dont see how we can even think of winning anything this year with the team we have.
The other day i looked at our subs and apart from thinking they should have started, what come to mind is we have nothing there.
the new players are going to take 5 or 6 games to find there feet, we dont have that sort of time on the Prem.

I am not asking for Rafa to go, what i am asking is for Rafa to come out and state why he has sold the players he, why he is plaing the players we do have in the wrong places. why did he buy the players he did ?

i would love to hear him comer out and say why to all of them but he will not.
(i bet none of you read this far)
My big fear with our owners is that they are killing the club, they will hold on till things are so bad that no one will buy us.
why did they hold out from selling to DIC.....the Fans, they did not like the fact the fans hated them (G&H). It was a case of you hate us well in that case we are going to stay.
I just hope they dont send the club bankrupt.

by **GYBS** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:24 am

Big Mick have seen plenty of people insult the manager and players and when people have calmly tried to explain why they are wrong just to be answered with more insults and rants - yeah tgere is some people who actually calming write down stuff and posts that have common sense in them yet some just rant and rant and rant about the same thing over and over again ignoring anyone who actually responds with sensible posts. many people have disagreed with a lot of the points being made and have explained why only to be greated with more rants and the same old thing over and over again .

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:15 am

GYBS wrote:it does seem a bit of a crusade sometimes and knee jerk reactions and major over reactions . the main thing i say to the anti rafa is to tell me who you would buy instead (being realistic) and who would you replace rafa with ? always seems to stump people - no point in getting rid of someone if there isnt someone out there who is better and able to join the club and we can realisticly get .

stump people? ok here is a list of players rafa could have bought and wouldnt have cost as much as gareth barry.

1) silvestre
2) mellberg
3) sorin (free :censored:

transfer)
4) kompany
5) coloccini
6) wright phillips
7) mcgeady (from celtic)
8) kerlon
9) bentley
10) downing
11) nasri
12) deco
13) muntari
14) modric
15) dos santos
16) milito
17) owen
18) martins
19) schawzer (gk from boro i think)
20) saviola
21) renato
22) pedro mendes

as for managers, here they are

1) frank rijkaard
2) luciano spaletti
3) guus hiddink
4) joachim low
5) jurgen klinsmann
6) sven

by **GYBS** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:27 am

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
GYBS wrote:it does seem a bit of a crusade sometimes and knee jerk reactions and major over reactions . the main thing i say to the anti rafa is to tell me who you would buy instead (being realistic) and who would you replace rafa with ? always seems to stump people - no point in getting rid of someone if there isnt someone out there who is better and able to join the club and we can realisticly get .

stump people? ok here is a list of players rafa could have bought and wouldnt have cost as much as gareth barry.

1) silvestre
2) mellberg
3) sorin (free transfer)
4) kompany
5) coloccini
6) wright phillips
7) mcgeady (from celtic)
8) kerlon
9) bentley
10) downing
11) nasri
12) deco
13) muntari
14) modric
15) dos santos
16) milito
17) owen
18) martins
19) schawzer (gk from boro i think)
20) saviola
21) renato
22) pedro mendes

as for managers, here they are

1) frank rijkaard
2) luciano spaletti
3) guus hiddink
4) joachim low
5) jurgen klinsmann
6) sven

Football manager alive and well it seems then - so out of that list how many could we off realistically got and bought at the time they were on sale or leaving clubs -

same with the managers -

everyone can put up a dream list but lets talk in realistic terms now. and how many do you know would of improved the team squad and chances of winning the title.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:31 pm

GYBS wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:
GYBS wrote:it does seem a bit of a crusade sometimes and knee jerk reactions and major over reactions . the main thing i say to the anti rafa is to tell me who you would buy instead (being realistic) and who would you replace rafa with ? always seems to stump people - no point in getting rid of someone if there isnt someone out there who is better and able to join the club and we can realisticly get .

stump people? ok here is a list of players rafa could have bought and wouldnt have cost as much as gareth barry.

1) silvestre
2) mellberg
3) sorin (free transfer)
4) kompany
5) coloccini
6) wright phillips
7) mcgeady (from celtic)
8) kerlon
9) bentley
10) downing
11) nasri
12) deco
13) muntari
14) modric
15) dos santos
16) milito
17) owen
18) martins
19) schawzer (gk from boro i think)
20) saviola
21) renato
22) pedro mendes

as for managers, here they are

1) frank rijkaard
2) luciano spaletti
3) guus hiddink
4) joachim low
5) jurgen klinsmann
6) sven

Football manager alive and well it seems then - so out of that list how many could we off realistically got and bought at the time they were on sale or leaving clubs -

same with the managers -

everyone can put up a dream list but lets talk in realistic terms now. and how many do you know would of improved the team squad and chances of winning the title.

the only player who didnt leave from that list was mcgeady.
other then that, all made transfers except saviola, owen and martins.

put it this way, the GK from boro was a freebie and we could have gotten him instead of cavillieri that wouldve saved us 3mil.

leftback role, silvestre went to arsenal for peanuts. sorin is a bloody good player and was free. mendes is getting better and he's played very well for portsmouth. that wouldve saved us money too.

attacking wise, i forgot to mention hatem, that french kid. martins, owen and saviola would not have cost as much as keane.

and we focussed so much on barry that players like modric who did very well against chelsea were ignored. arshavin is another.

all in all we couldve saved money if the transfers were smart but rafa is too busy building a youth team which given the performances of LFC, he wouldnt be around to coach them anyway.

and oh, this isnt footie manager. if u bother to look up the internet to check out the moves perhaps then you will have better insight then your usual ''oh rafa is so great, this is liverpool we cant say a bad thing about liverpool or lightning will strike us bull''. wake up. we're not going anywhere near the title. in fact, uefa cup would suit us more.

by **GYBS** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:36 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
GYBS wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:
GYBS wrote:it does seem a bit of a crusade sometimes and knee jerk reactions and major over reactions . the main thing i say to the anti rafa is to tell me who you would buy instead (being realistic) and who would you replace rafa with ? always seems to stump people - no point in getting rid of someone if there isnt someone out there who is better and able to join the club and we can realisticly get .

stump people? ok here is a list of players rafa could have bought and wouldnt have cost as much as gareth barry.

1) silvestre
2) mellberg
3) sorin (free transfer)
4) kompany
5) coloccini
6) wright phillips
7) mcgeady (from celtic)
8) kerlon
9) bentley
10) downing
11) nasri
12) deco
13) muntari
14) modric
15) dos santos
16) milito
17) owen
18) martins
19) schawzer (gk from boro i think)
20) saviola
21) renato
22) pedro mendes

as for managers, here they are

1) frank rijkaard
2) luciano spaletti
3) guus hiddink
4) joachim low
5) jurgen klinsmann
6) sven

Football manager alive and well it seems then - so out of that list how many could we off realistically got and bought at the time they were on sale or leaving clubs -

same with the managers -

everyone can put up a dream list but lets talk in realistic terms now. and how many do you know would of improved the team squad and chances of winning the title.

the only player who didnt leave from that list was mcgeady.
other then that, all made transfers except saviola, owen and martins.

put it this way, the GK from boro was a freebie and we could have gotten him instead of cavillieri that wouldve saved us 3mil.

leftback role, silvestre went to arsenal for peanuts. sorin is a bloody good player and was free. mendes is getting better and he's played very well for portsmouth. that wouldve saved us money too.

attacking wise, i forgot to mention hatem, that french kid. martins, owen and saviola would not have cost as much as keane.

and we focussed so much on barry that players like modric who did very well against chelsea were ignored. arshavin is another.

all in all we couldve saved money if the transfers were smart but rafa is too busy building a youth team which given the performances of LFC, he wouldnt be around to coach them anyway.

and oh, this isnt footie manager. if u bother to look up the internet to check out the moves perhaps then you will have better insight then your usual ''oh rafa is so great, this is liverpool we cant say a bad thing about liverpool or lightning will strike us bull''. wake up. we're not going anywhere near the title. in fact, uefa cup would suit us more.

and how many of thos eplayers would improve us then ? mendes ?? your jokin me right ? how old is sorin now and playing where now ? how many of those players you mentioned went to massive clubs and how many could we of afforded ?

you make it all sound so easy to get these players . but the reality its not and not one of your players stand out as real quality to imporve us in areas we need improving . or too expensive .

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:08 pm

GYBS wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:
GYBS wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:
GYBS wrote:it does seem a bit of a crusade sometimes and knee jerk reactions and major over reactions . the main thing i say to the anti rafa is to tell me who you would buy instead (being realistic) and who would you replace rafa with ? always seems to stump people - no point in getting rid of someone if there isnt someone out there who is better and able to join the club and we can realisticly get .

stump people? ok here is a list of players rafa could have bought and wouldnt have cost as much as gareth barry.

1) silvestre
2) mellberg
3) sorin (free transfer)
4) kompany
5) coloccini
6) wright phillips
7) mcgeady (from celtic)
8) kerlon
9) bentley
10) downing
11) nasri
12) deco
13) muntari
14) modric
15) dos santos
16) milito
17) owen
18) martins
19) schawzer (gk from boro i think)
20) saviola
21) renato
22) pedro mendes

as for managers, here they are

1) frank rijkaard
2) luciano spaletti
3) guus hiddink
4) joachim low
5) jurgen klinsmann
6) sven

Football manager alive and well it seems then - so out of that list how many could we off realistically got and bought at the time they were on sale or leaving clubs -

same with the managers -

everyone can put up a dream list but lets talk in realistic terms now. and how many do you know would of improved the team squad and chances of winning the title.

the only player who didnt leave from that list was mcgeady.
other then that, all made transfers except saviola, owen and martins.

put it this way, the GK from boro was a freebie and we could have gotten him instead of cavillieri that wouldve saved us 3mil.

leftback role, silvestre went to arsenal for peanuts. sorin is a bloody good player and was free. mendes is getting better and he's played very well for portsmouth. that wouldve saved us money too.

attacking wise, i forgot to mention hatem, that french kid. martins, owen and saviola would not have cost as much as keane.

and we focussed so much on barry that players like modric who did very well against chelsea were ignored. arshavin is another.

all in all we couldve saved money if the transfers were smart but rafa is too busy building a youth team which given the performances of LFC, he wouldnt be around to coach them anyway.

and oh, this isnt footie manager. if u bother to look up the internet to check out the moves perhaps then you will have better insight then your usual ''oh rafa is so great, this is liverpool we cant say a bad thing about liverpool or lightning will strike us bull''. wake up. we're not going anywhere near the title. in fact, uefa cup would suit us more.

and how many of thos eplayers would improve us then ? mendes ?? your jokin me right ? how old is sorin now and playing where now ? how many of those players you mentioned went to massive clubs and how many could we of afforded ?

you make it all sound so easy to get these players . but the reality its not and not one of your players stand out as real quality to imporve us in areas we need improving . or too expensive .

what rubbish! TOO EXPENSIVE? obviously you havent read well. how much did the clubs pay for them? go get your facts right before replying.

sorin is old he can only play for one oe 2 more seasons but by then he could help groom his fellow argie insua.

dos santos, nasri, mcgeady, deco, etc are not improvements on what we have? oh yea we have kuyt, benayoun and pennant. great players!

stop giving all sorts of :censored:

excuses. if other clubs could get them why cant we? its just a matter of wanting them.

and as for the ''how many of them went to big clubs'' comment, that line has confirmed your status as a dimwit.

read: matthew le tissier

by **heimdall** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:20 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
GYBS wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:
GYBS wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:
GYBS wrote:it does seem a bit of a crusade sometimes and knee jerk reactions and major over reactions . the main thing i say to the anti rafa is to tell me who you would buy instead (being realistic) and who would you replace rafa with ? always seems to stump people - no point in getting rid of someone if there isnt someone out there who is better and able to join the club and we can realisticly get .

stump people? ok here is a list of players rafa could have bought and wouldnt have cost as much as gareth barry.

1) silvestre
2) mellberg
3) sorin (free transfer)
4) kompany
5) coloccini
6) wright phillips
7) mcgeady (from celtic)
8) kerlon
9) bentley
10) downing
11) nasri
12) deco
13) muntari
14) modric
15) dos santos
16) milito
17) owen
18) martins
19) schawzer (gk from boro i think)
20) saviola
21) renato
22) pedro mendes

as for managers, here they are

1) frank rijkaard
2) luciano spaletti
3) guus hiddink
4) joachim low
5) jurgen klinsmann
6) sven

Football manager alive and well it seems then - so out of that list how many could we off realistically got and bought at the time they were on sale or leaving clubs -

same with the managers -

everyone can put up a dream list but lets talk in realistic terms now. and how many do you know would of improved the team squad and chances of winning the title.

the only player who didnt leave from that list was mcgeady.
other then that, all made transfers except saviola, owen and martins.

put it this way, the GK from boro was a freebie and we could have gotten him instead of cavillieri that wouldve saved us 3mil.

leftback role, silvestre went to arsenal for peanuts. sorin is a bloody good player and was free. mendes is getting better and he's played very well for portsmouth. that wouldve saved us money too.

attacking wise, i forgot to mention hatem, that french kid. martins, owen and saviola would not have cost as much as keane.

and we focussed so much on barry that players like modric who did very well against chelsea were ignored. arshavin is another.

all in all we couldve saved money if the transfers were smart but rafa is too busy building a youth team which given the performances of LFC, he wouldnt be around to coach them anyway.

and oh, this isnt footie manager. if u bother to look up the internet to check out the moves perhaps then you will have better insight then your usual ''oh rafa is so great, this is liverpool we cant say a bad thing about liverpool or lightning will strike us bull''. wake up. we're not going anywhere near the title. in fact, uefa cup would suit us more.

and how many of thos eplayers would improve us then ? mendes ?? your jokin me right ? how old is sorin now and playing where now ? how many of those players you mentioned went to massive clubs and how many could we of afforded ?

you make it all sound so easy to get these players . but the reality its not and not one of your players stand out as real quality to imporve us in areas we need improving . or too expensive .

what rubbish! TOO EXPENSIVE? obviously you havent read well. how much did the clubs pay for them? go get your facts right before replying.

sorin is old he can only play for one oe 2 more seasons but by then he could help groom his fellow argie insua.

dos santos, nasri, mcgeady, deco, etc are not improvements on what we have? oh yea we have kuyt, benayoun and pennant. great players!

stop giving all sorts of excuses. if other clubs could get them why cant we? its just a matter of wanting them.

and as for the ''how many of them went to big clubs'' comment, that line has confirmed your status as a dimwit.

read: matthew le tissier

Completely 100% agree, why would any player NOT want to come to Liverpool, what is we can't offer a player that another club can except at the moment any chance whatsoever of winning the league, but with the right signings and correct tactics that could change.
Rafa has lost the plot if he thinks playing Kuyt and Keane on the wings is sensible, can any happy clapper out there justify that selection? Also taking Keane off with 10 minutes to go, explanation please?

by **GYBS** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:25 pm

Ok then let me rephrase it for you - how many of those players would want to come to us ? and how do you know they would of improved us . Mc geady shines in the scottish league - well done - how many players have come down and done well lately ? deco would only of ever gone to chelsea , nasri arsenal , dos santos is doing nothing at the moment and would barce really let him go if he was going to be a special talent ? doubtful . modric was around 16 mil to play in the centre of the park ? who do we replace gerrard or masher or xabi ? its also a matter of being able to afford them and them fitting into the team . bently was 20 mil was it ? arshavin 20 mil plus and you want to spend that based on uefa cup and two decent games in the euros ? yeah sorin is old with no pace and you expect him to be able to cope in the prem when he couldnt cope in serie A when he was at lazio . Martins would cost us 15 mil and blows hot and cold . Owen - well lets not go there . Saviola has done nothing for years and there is a reason he was rotting away in madrids reserves - ie not good enough . Chelsea would never of sold SWP to us in a million years unless we paid 15 mil for him as well.

by **GYBS** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:26 pm

and can people not post on here without insulting people ? pretty childish isnt it ?

by **zarababe** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:07 pm

Our club is being killed by the American owners who want to make a fast buck and whilst the reality of their financail predicamnet comes to even more embarrasing light.

The Abu Dhabi group buy Man City and spend £32m+ on a certain Robhinio - Man Utd spend £30M+ on Berbatov and people on here question Rafa's shopping sprees

forget Chelsea, Man City will be ruffling hte feathres in the next few years and Torres is on their shopping list.

If we don't get DIC in, with the will to spend the dosh - forget 4th place it will be Intertoto or worse.

Liverpool Football Club - with or without Rafa faces a glum future until these egos leave the club!

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:46 pm

GYBS wrote:Ok then let me rephrase it for you - how many of those players would want to come to us ? and how do you know they would of improved us . Mc geady shines in the scottish league - well done - how many players have come down and done well lately ? deco would only of ever gone to chelsea , nasri arsenal , dos santos is doing nothing at the moment and would barce really let him go if he was going to be a special talent ? doubtful . modric was around 16 mil to play in the centre of the park ? who do we replace gerrard or masher or xabi ? its also a matter of being able to afford them and them fitting into the team . bently was 20 mil was it ? arshavin 20 mil plus and you want to spend that based on uefa cup and two decent games in the euros ? yeah sorin is old with no pace and you expect him to be able to cope in the prem when he couldnt cope in serie A when he was at lazio . Martins would cost us 15 mil and blows hot and cold . Owen - well lets not go there . Saviola has done nothing for years and there is a reason he was rotting away in madrids reserves - ie not good enough . Chelsea would never of sold SWP to us in a million years unless we paid 15 mil for him as well.

mate, they werent looking in our direction simply because we didnt show any interest in them. if we did perhaps if could be different. its all about possibilities

besides, whatever happened to our interest in players like simao, aimar, etc? there are good and better players out there for the taking compared to what we have. i just find rafa stubborn. he should shave. its bad luck that goatee.

by **GYBS** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:53 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
GYBS wrote:Ok then let me rephrase it for you - how many of those players would want to come to us ? and how do you know they would of improved us . Mc geady shines in the scottish league - well done - how many players have come down and done well lately ? deco would only of ever gone to chelsea , nasri arsenal , dos santos is doing nothing at the moment and would barce really let him go if he was going to be a special talent ? doubtful . modric was around 16 mil to play in the centre of the park ? who do we replace gerrard or masher or xabi ? its also a matter of being able to afford them and them fitting into the team . bently was 20 mil was it ? arshavin 20 mil plus and you want to spend that based on uefa cup and two decent games in the euros ? yeah sorin is old with no pace and you expect him to be able to cope in the prem when he couldnt cope in serie A when he was at lazio . Martins would cost us 15 mil and blows hot and cold . Owen - well lets not go there . Saviola has done nothing for years and there is a reason he was rotting away in madrids reserves - ie not good enough . Chelsea would never of sold SWP to us in a million years unless we paid 15 mil for him as well.

mate, they werent looking in our direction simply because we didnt show any interest in them. if we did perhaps if could be different. its all about possibilities

besides, whatever happened to our interest in players like simao, aimar, etc? there are good and better players out there for the taking compared to what we have. i just find rafa stubborn. he should shave. its bad luck that goatee.

maybe no interest in them was shown cause the manager either thought 1. they arent good enough 2. they were too expensive 3. no chance of signing them 4. too old an dnot suited to the prem

With simao Benfica put the price up and last summer he went to madrid for 19 mil euros so he would now prob cost us around 20 mil quid and aimar is old and rafa doesnt seem to rate him as never played him for valencia .

he wanted players like silva (couldnt afford him ) villa (same again ) barry ( same again ) alves(same again ) - do you get the trend . he wants better players as his number one targets just cant afford them .

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