Liverpool FC Forum

by **hishhish** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:13 am

as for the recent form, i don't understand why essentially the same team as last year, doesn't seem to be as confident or incisive (at least as last year's), that is what is worrying me on the short term.

by **puroresu** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:16 am

i think we could of got better players if we didnt continue to sign 2 mediocre players instead of 1 quality player. Also not every good player costs £10 mil plus. just need to look in the right places.

by **Owzat** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:54 am

Simari wrote:
Ciggy wrote:But we have to move on whats done is done, we are still unbeaten for the first time in 14 years our first 3 openers, so even though we have been playing awful its not a bad stat is it?

You've got that very wrong Ciggy.

We were unbeaten well into October last year. Arsenal and us had our first losses on the same day (10th game i believe).

The 14 years stat was three wins at the start of the season, not unbeaten as we've managed that more than once.

Last season we were 16 league games unbeaten before the mancs stole away with three points from Anfield

Liverpool Premiership defeats 07/08

16/12/07 Man Utd (h)
30/01/08 West Ham (a)
15/03/08 Reading (a)
23/03/08 Man Utd (a)

Our first defeat in any competition was the 12th game of last season, 0-1 to Marseille at Anfield on 3rd October. We'll do well to get to 3rd October unbeaten this season.

Arsenal lost their first league game, and first game overall, on 9th December 1-2 away to Boro, their 16th league game.

I've been totting up Rafa's spending this season, nearly £40m and yet you wouldn't think he'd added £40m worth of players to the squad. Not even £32m worth if you exclude Riera who obviously hasn't played yet

Rafa's spending

04/05 £25.25m
05/06 £27.70m
06/07 £31.80m
07/08 £65.50m
08/09 £39.80m

Not much he could have done in the first two seasons while Chelsea were spending so much, but the gap shouldn't be as big as it was last season - especially as we lost only three games. You can just about justify losses to Man Utd and FOUR draws against Arsenal and Chelsea, but what about the rest of the dropped points? Home draws against spudz when they were in bad form, Wigan and Brum. Defeat away to Reading who were relegated, and mid-table West Ham, and draws away to ordinary sides. The bottom line is Rafa may not have spent as much as Chelsea and the mancs, but he has comfortably outspent the other 16 sides that we drop too many points against.

Rafa's record by league position 04/05-07/08

Relegated sides : P24 W15 D6 L3 F46 A19 PTS 51 (out of 72 = 71%)
Places 11-17 : P56 W38 D11 L7 F108 A35 PTS 125 (out of 168 = 74%)
Places 1-10 (home only ) : P36 W22 D9 L5 F56 A23 PTS 75 (out of 108 = 69%)

So the point? We drop points against sides where money ISN'T an excuse because they can easily counter our more expensive players who simply don't have a solution to the problem of how to break them down. Even our record at home against the top ten sides could and should be better, while the mancs account for most of the defeats, the draws are far too frequent. One stat I don't often quote is we've lost EVERY league game against the Champions, scoring only ONE goal in the process (in eight games) To have nowhere near a 100% record against the relegated sides is pitiful, not much better against the bottom half sides.

The merry-go-round of strikers is a bit of a farce, only one signed so far by Rafa has really worked. And where is the creativity? Hopefully Riera, but frankly the most only productive midfielder who carries his weight is Gerrard. You can't blame the work-rates of most of them, but they resort to long passes or the game stagnates when passed out wide to a player who isn't an out and out winger.

I guess we shouldn't just blame Houllier, Evans or Souness either. Perhaps it's just bad luck that our manager has spent so much and not achieved proportionate success (in the league leastwise) Buck stops with the manager, he signs the players and chooses formation, tactics, defensive system etc. He makes the substitutions, he is responsible for all team issues. If players aren't playing well then why did he sign them? Why does he pick them? If a formation isn't working why does he choose it? Rafa makes all the key decisions, even if the GB transfer was blocked - so what? He should move on to a better player at a cheaper price or make do with the players he previously deemed worth £6.7m, £5m, £5m, £18.6m, £10.5m, £11.5m etc etc (referring to Pennant, Benayoun, Lucas, Mascherano, Alonso, and Babel if you weren't sure) He deemed them good enough to sign, he shouldn't then be complaining if ONE signing is blocked.

And how did a strike trio that cost over £50m struggle so in the villa game? Midfield must have cost near £40m and the defence another £21m+, still more expensive an XI than villa's SQUAD (around £92m) RAFA is the one who has to accept the blame, noone else has the power over the team to be blamed. Ramos could have blamed Berbatov for spudz' start to the season, instead he excluded him before selling him. And without one of their better players they drew at Chelsea, the buck stops with Ramos.................Jol, MON, Curbishley, Keegan, Allardyce, Megson, Grant, Mourinho, Wenger etc etc etc

by **Owzat** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:59 am

puroresu wrote:i think we could of got better players if we didnt continue to sign 2 mediocre players instead of 1 quality player. Also not every good player costs £10 mil plus. just need to look in the right places.

Couldn't agree more. Defenders tend to cost less than £7m, and arguably our best defender cost nothing. Aurelio also cost nothing, Arbeloa just £2.6m and Agger and Skrtel only around £6m each.

I honestly believe we should have gone for Defoe, not sure what he ever did wrong, but for the price at the time he looked worth every penny - and I'm not just saying that after the event having seen him score and Keane struggle, I think Rafa may have overspent his budget at the time though.

by **bigmick** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:15 am

Again if you're looking at players which would improve the first team, Man City signed Sean Wright-Phillips fopr 8.5 million quid. If the rumours are to be believed, his agent was instructed by Ian Wright to ring Anfield and ask if Liverpool were interested. He's no Christiano Ronaldo, but does anybody think he's not a better bet for right midfield than Kuyt? I mean he scores more, creates more, has pace and actually is a right midfielder. Now assuming we could sell Kuyt to somebody for 3 or 4 million (more according to some people so you never know), you'd be talking about an instant improvement to the team for three or four million quid.

Is it just me, he's a better bet than good old Dirk at right midfield surely, even those who don't particularly rate him must think that surely?

by **GYBS** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:01 am

The thing about swp is would chelsea of sold him to us and for the 9 mil ? i reckon the price would of gone up a serious amount if we put a bid in for him , it would be pretty stupid for chelsea to sell a decent player to one of their rivals knowing he oculd improve the team unless it was for a decent fee.

by **GYBS** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:02 am

Also Hansen maybe a decent pundit and ex pro and knows his stuff but at the end of the day its just his opinion and he has been wrong before .

by **bunglemark2** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:38 am

GYBS wrote:The thing about swp is would chelsea of sold him to us and for the 9 mil ? i reckon the price would of gone up a serious amount if we put a bid in for him , it would be pretty stupid for chelsea to sell a decent player to one of their rivals knowing he oculd improve the team unless it was for a decent fee.

Surely LFC could buy Tranmere Rovers for about £25, no ? Tranmere then buy SWP for whatever the going rate is. LFC wind up Tranmere as a going concern, roll up their assets into the club and Hey Presto!, we have SWP and Chelsea dont get the hump for selling him to us....

I should be working as an agent, you know :lookaround

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:48 am

I can't belived we are still talking about buying SWP ( during that time he still in Cheshit ) to Liverpool.

RAFA didn't mention or didn't try to buy milner, swp, downing and aaron lennon.

He only mention getting GB for 18M and willing to sell alonso to the Goners, and if he didn't get GB, he will get riera which he already sign for LIverpool.

by **GYBS** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:48 am

sounds a good plan

Also is there anyway all these anti rafa threads can be just merged into one so the same people can just carry on there constant anti rafa stuff ?

by **bunglemark2** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:54 am

GYBS wrote:

sounds a good plan

Also is there anyway all these anti rafa threads can be just merged into one so the same people can just carry on there constant anti rafa stuff ?

There's an easier way around that : Fo Dne and all his pessimistic cronies to PM one another all bleedin' day long, and off this forum...
Jesus wept, I've never seen anything like the carry on of late...

by **GYBS** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:57 am

it does seem a bit of a crusade sometimes and knee jerk reactions and major over reactions . the main thing i say to the anti rafa is to tell me who you would buy instead (being realistic) and who would you replace rafa with ? always seems to stump people - no point in getting rid of someone if there isnt someone out there who is better and able to join the club and we can realisticly get .

by **Simari** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:59 am

GYBS wrote:

sounds a good plan

Also is there anyway all these anti rafa threads can be just merged into one so the same people can just carry on there constant anti rafa stuff ?

Easier to start a "I Love Rafa" thread

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:00 am

GYBS wrote:

sounds a good plan

Also is there anyway all these anti rafa threads can be just merged into one so the same people can just carry on there constant anti rafa stuff ?

I think you get it wrong, there's no anti rafa here, there are just fans who wants to see Liverpool performing very well and win "handsomely".

WE ARE LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB, we are not hull city, sunderland or some other small clubs. WE ARE LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB.

by **GYBS** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:09 am

LiverpoolMadman wrote:
GYBS wrote::D

sounds a good plan

Also is there anyway all these anti rafa threads can be just merged into one so the same people can just carry on there constant anti rafa stuff ?

I think you get it wrong, there's no anti rafa here, there are just fans who wants to see Liverpool performing very well and win "handsomely".

WE ARE LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB, we are not hull city, sunderland or some other small clubs. WE ARE LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB.

Im sorry but there is plnety of anti rafa here just like plenty of anti kuyt.

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