Liverpool FC Forum

by **Dalglish** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:28 am

LFC2007 wrote:Despite improved - our form remained intermittent, and incomplete in the last three months of last season. Torres and Gerrard hit a purple patch, Kuyt regained his confidence, and we played several teams who were poor defensively. The weaknesses we displayed then are the same weaknesses we have now, and our last four games have been reminiscent of one of those bliiiiiips we had last season, the difference is the result - we've been bailed out on each occasion this time round: Reina, Torres, Gerrard, and now KUYT.

Excellent and honest comments.

People are getting carried away when thinking of the last 10 games of last season when the title was gone. Anyone can string a run together when their playing for 4th !

What actually happened was indeed that our 2 talismen hit form at the same time and pheraps we relaxed knowing that the title had gone............

It actually helped us clinch 4th spot and entry into the cash trough that is the CL so we should be thankful but it masked an underlying problem that we appear to have carried into this new season.

Keane's arrival has actually changed the way we play and he is trying way too hard to impress and make an immediate impact. Having Stevie playing behind Torres last season compensated for our lack of width and delivery from the flanks with players coming inside all too often.

Rafa has to buy a decent left sided winger and Robbie needs to relax. This time last season Rafa was resting Torres and got slated for it but would there be the same reaction if he didn't start Keane ?

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:28 am

metalhead wrote:
Sabre wrote:
metalhead wrote:I would say lets give El Zhar a chance to start. He looked good coming off as a sub in the past couple of games.

Sorry I had to go to the WC and I didn't see a chance he had today, was that a penalty?

It's good the work that is being done in the youth system eventually appears in the first team. I think the lad needs minutes, and hopefully he'll get them in games we're winning, progresively.

That's the way to invite youngsters to the team, not giving 6 them a match against Arsenal in a cup and expect them to win the game.

My stream went off in the 70th minute

I didnt watch him tonight, but did see him in the last couple of games, he does well when he comes on and he does better than kuyt on the right hand side.

I would say he should start on sunday if Gerrard isn't fit.

heres the goal Metalhead

Yes it looked a definate pen btw.

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:29 am

Fact that me and few others had been saying this for a few years now and some of you only understand this to be since listening to townsend on ITV today.

Glad you caught up now stfu.

by **metalhead** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:32 am

s@int wrote:
metalhead wrote:
Sabre wrote:
metalhead wrote:I would say lets give El Zhar a chance to start. He looked good coming off as a sub in the past couple of games.

Sorry I had to go to the WC and I didn't see a chance he had today, was that a penalty?

It's good the work that is being done in the youth system eventually appears in the first team. I think the lad needs minutes, and hopefully he'll get them in games we're winning, progresively.

That's the way to invite youngsters to the team, not giving 6 them a match against Arsenal in a cup and expect them to win the game.

My stream went off in the 70th minute

I didnt watch him tonight, but did see him in the last couple of games, he does well when he comes on and he does better than kuyt on the right hand side.

I would say he should start on sunday if Gerrard isn't fit.

heres the goal Metalhead

Yes it looked a definate pen btw.

poor defending from the belgians, but I wont complain

cheers for the goal!

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:48 am

Dalglish wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:Despite improved - our form remained intermittent, and incomplete in the last three months of last season. Torres and Gerrard hit a purple patch, Kuyt regained his confidence, and we played several teams who were poor defensively. The weaknesses we displayed then are the same weaknesses we have now, and our last four games have been reminiscent of one of those bliiiiiips we had last season, the difference is the result - we've been bailed out on each occasion this time round: Reina, Torres, Gerrard, and now KUYT.

Excellent and honest comments.

People are getting carried away when thinking of the last 10 games of last season when the title was gone. Anyone can string a run together when their playing for 4th !

What actually happened was indeed that our 2 talismen hit form at the same time and pheraps we relaxed knowing that the title had gone............

It actually helped us clinch 4th spot and entry into the cash trough that is the CL so we should be thankful but it masked an underlying problem that we appear to have carried into this new season.

Keane's arrival has actually changed the way we play and he is trying way too hard to impress and make an immediate impact. Having Stevie playing behind Torres last season compensated for our lack of width and delivery from the flanks with players coming inside all too often.

Rafa has to buy a decent left sided winger and Robbie needs to relax. This time last season Rafa was resting Torres and got slated for it but would there be the same reaction if he didn't start Keane ?

I have to intervene here. What LFC2007 said is right, but he is simply picking up what we have all said during the last few months. We understand what happened last season, we all understand what is happening this season.

Excellent and honest comments.

Indeed, from the rest of the forum, I will be damned to sit here and let LFC2007 take credit for those opinions already expressed. On the heat of match day, many people let the match take over there feelings, then those who have seen the match and are patient in there opinion express it so. Only for some tw@t who hasnt seen the match to take opinions of others to form it into there own.

Yes a good opinion, but Dalglish, spare the time to read the rest of peoples opinions then you will see this forum is not as "personified" as you think it is.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:56 am

Kharhaz wrote:
Dalglish wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:Despite improved - our form remained intermittent, and incomplete in the last three months of last season. Torres and Gerrard hit a purple patch, Kuyt regained his confidence, and we played several teams who were poor defensively. The weaknesses we displayed then are the same weaknesses we have now, and our last four games have been reminiscent of one of those bliiiiiips we had last season, the difference is the result - we've been bailed out on each occasion this time round: Reina, Torres, Gerrard, and now KUYT.

Excellent and honest comments.

People are getting carried away when thinking of the last 10 games of last season when the title was gone. Anyone can string a run together when their playing for 4th !

What actually happened was indeed that our 2 talismen hit form at the same time and pheraps we relaxed knowing that the title had gone............

It actually helped us clinch 4th spot and entry into the cash trough that is the CL so we should be thankful but it masked an underlying problem that we appear to have carried into this new season.

Keane's arrival has actually changed the way we play and he is trying way too hard to impress and make an immediate impact. Having Stevie playing behind Torres last season compensated for our lack of width and delivery from the flanks with players coming inside all too often.

Rafa has to buy a decent left sided winger and Robbie needs to relax. This time last season Rafa was resting Torres and got slated for it but would there be the same reaction if he didn't start Keane ?

I have to intervene here. What LFC2007 said is right, but he is simply picking up what we have all said during the last few months. We understand what happened last season, we all understand what is happening this season.

Excellent and honest comments.

Indeed, from the rest of the forum, I will be damned to sit here and let LFC2007 take credit for those opinions already expressed. On the heat of match day, many people let the match take over there feelings, then those who have seen the match and are patient in there opinion express it so. Only for some tw@t who hasnt seen the match to take opinions of others to form it into there own.

Yes a good opinion, but Dalglish, spare the time to read the rest of peoples opinions then you will see this forum is not as "personified" as you think it is.

Fruit loop :nod

by **Dalglish** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:59 am

Kharhaz.................Relax lad. I don't have the time or the inclination to scour the whole forum and work out who said what and when.

I'm not blowing smoke up his :censored:

, just spotted his comments and agreed with them. I don't even know who LFC2007 is to be perfectly honest but this forum isn't a competition on who gets the most plaudits.

If you think he is guilty of plagureism then go tell a Mod or something, i just spotted his post and agreed with it .

Walk on ...........

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:59 am

LFC2007 wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
Dalglish wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:Despite improved - our form remained intermittent, and incomplete in the last three months of last season. Torres and Gerrard hit a purple patch, Kuyt regained his confidence, and we played several teams who were poor defensively. The weaknesses we displayed then are the same weaknesses we have now, and our last four games have been reminiscent of one of those bliiiiiips we had last season, the difference is the result - we've been bailed out on each occasion this time round: Reina, Torres, Gerrard, and now KUYT.

Excellent and honest comments.

People are getting carried away when thinking of the last 10 games of last season when the title was gone. Anyone can string a run together when their playing for 4th !

What actually happened was indeed that our 2 talismen hit form at the same time and pheraps we relaxed knowing that the title had gone............

It actually helped us clinch 4th spot and entry into the cash trough that is the CL so we should be thankful but it masked an underlying problem that we appear to have carried into this new season.

Keane's arrival has actually changed the way we play and he is trying way too hard to impress and make an immediate impact. Having Stevie playing behind Torres last season compensated for our lack of width and delivery from the flanks with players coming inside all too often.

Rafa has to buy a decent left sided winger and Robbie needs to relax. This time last season Rafa was resting Torres and got slated for it but would there be the same reaction if he didn't start Keane ?

I have to intervene here. What LFC2007 said is right, but he is simply picking up what we have all said during the last few months. We understand what happened last season, we all understand what is happening this season.

Excellent and honest comments.

Indeed, from the rest of the forum, I will be damned to sit here and let LFC2007 take credit for those opinions already expressed. On the heat of match day, many people let the match take over there feelings, then those who have seen the match and are patient in there opinion express it so. Only for some tw@t who hasnt seen the match to take opinions of others to form it into there own.

Yes a good opinion, but Dalglish, spare the time to read the rest of peoples opinions then you will see this forum is not as "personified" as you think it is.

Fruit loop

I rest my case....

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:06 am

Dalglish wrote:Kharhaz.................Relax lad. I don't have the time or the inclination to scour the whole forum and work out who said what and when.

I'm not blowing smoke up his , just spotted his comments and agreed with them. I don't even know who LFC2007 is to be perfectly honest but this forum isn't a competition on who gets the most plaudits.

If you think he is guilty of plagureism then go tell a Mod or something, i just spotted his post and agreed with it .

Walk on ...........

Im just in support of the many, many newcomers and oldies have several opinions, many dismissed, many welcome, but you have the few hunting for glory. You can read 100 posts of one person but the one post rings true, you then have the one, the glory hunter, the david beckham of the world. All footballers can pass a ball, but there is one who convinces the world they pass it better. They cant of course, they pass the ball like the Jan Molbys of this world, or the Glenn Hoddles in there voice, but they are no better than the Darren Andertons, the Andy Coles, there fields are better in other areas, but there bullsh@t comes through and makes them better than they are.

by **Dalglish** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:13 am

Kharhaz wrote:
Dalglish wrote:Kharhaz.................Relax lad. I don't have the time or the inclination to scour the whole forum and work out who said what and when.

I'm not blowing smoke up his , just spotted his comments and agreed with them. I don't even know who LFC2007 is to be perfectly honest but this forum isn't a competition on who gets the most plaudits.

If you think he is guilty of plagureism then go tell a Mod or something, i just spotted his post and agreed with it .

Walk on ...........

Im just in support of the many, many newcomers and oldies have several opinions, many dismissed, many welcome, but you have the few hunting for glory. You can read 100 posts of one person but the one post rings true, you then have the one, the glory hunter, the david beckham of the world. All footballers can pass a ball, but there is one who convinces the world they pass it better. They cant of course, they pass the ball like the Jan Molbys of this world, or the Glenn Hoddles in there voice, but they are no better than the Darren Andertons, the Andy Coles, there fields are better in other areas, but there bullsh@t comes through and makes them better than they are.

Everyone knows I'm the best poster on here anyway :;):

I'm puzzled as to why it bothers you so much. Have you got history with LFC2007 or something ? Let him have his 2 minutes of notoriety if thats what you believe he craves.

I'll leave you two lovebirds to it then

I'm off to bed
:sleepy:

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:23 am

I know what you mean Kharhaz, but everyone does it to a certain extent mate. If someone can sum up a few ideas into one post .... great. We all pick up bits of ideas, impressions and thoughts from others ..... its a forum, so unless you are so fixed in your beliefs that everyone else is wrong, you are bound to be influenced to some extent by others ideas.

Someone writes a post that you agree with ..... its a good post..... someone writes a post that you don't agree with ...... its cr@p

Its not about original thought mate, just about giving an honest opinion.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:32 am

bigmick wrote:Whether or not the formation and pattern has changed (and like I say I think it has) the link play between Torres and Gerrard has certainly diminished from what I've seen.

My feeling is that the introduction of Keane has either taken up spaces which Torres used to exploit, and/or filled up gaps which Gerrard would arrive into. This is why our play probably looks even narrower than it used to. It's addressing this problem (as well as the introduction of some quality wide midfielders I'll concede) which will solve the issue.

There are to my mind three potential solutions to the central congestion problem, and we need to adopt one as policy quickly because our play won't improve until we do.

Firstly we could move Gerrard to the right to replace Kuyt. This would instantly improve our right side by 500% or so in terms of goals, assists, game breaking capability etc. I'm not slgging kuyt off particularly here, Gerrard is an absolutely fantastic right midfielder who would improve every team bar possibly Man Utd when Ronaldo's playing. This is actually what I'd do.

Secondly, we could ask Keane to play much more away from the box than he currently is. He needs to drop into opposite channels, drop into the hole, show long when Torres shows short and vice versa. This is what I think they're trying to do now, and for one reason and another it isn't working. Chief amongst those reasons could be that he is insufficiently confident as of yet to exploit his freedom. It does though require much cohesion and interplay between himself, Torres and Gerrard. It may take a while to get this though, so I'd go for a change.

The third way id adopting a more genuine 4-2-3-1. I know some posters think we already play this, but I'm not sure we really do in the classic sense. Normally in a 4-2-3-1, the full-backs would be bombers but we don't really have the players I think. You'd end up with the three being probably Gerrard, Keane and possibly Babel, but without the fullbacks you'd end up being even more narrow. Also the likely signing of Riera means this is less likely a scenario to my mind.

No, I think it's time for Gerrard on the right. Ask Keane to drop in centrally to the hole (which'll be easier when the captains not there) and that will also free torres up to play more his natural game. Gerrardwill do the stuff from the right, and the introduction of a left midfielder would give it balance. Keane dropping in would compensate somewhat for xabi's reluctance to get forward, and first change in emergency could see Gerrard come into the centre, Babelk to the right etc etc.

It's not just about quality wide men though, althoguh they are important. I also think to go back to an earlier point, like last season Agger can't come back quick enough.

Keane played a lot deeper tonight than he did against Boro. Against Boro, there was a bit of a gap between Gerrard, Torres and Keane - who were closer together, and I thought Keane did well to work around Torres, without getting in the way of him or Gerrard. Tonight, he was just ahead of Gerrard and just behind Torres and it didn't click. They pressed us very well - Fellaini did a solid job in holding the midfield, and what made this infinitely worse was Benayoun. Positionally, in comparison to the Boro game, he was a lot closer to Gerrard, Keane and Torres, and on more than one occasion his movement, or lack of it led to a breakdown of play, choosing to cut into congested areas, rather than seeking space and stretching them just that little bit extra. Against Boro, Benayoun was nearer the half way line as opposed to congesting the areas nearer Torres and Keane. His attempts to get involved (presumably he was aware of his non-existent performance against Boro) made it harder for Keane. He tried to get involved by moving slightly further forward, almost in line with Keane. Kuyt did the same - he played further forward too, nearer that Keane/Torres/Gerrard zone, which was way too congested.

I think it can work as it is, with Keane up alongside Torres, and Gerrard behind we just need to stop congesting the space in and around them and that means using players other than Kuyt or Benayoun, or at least getting one other player other than them, even if it means bringing Pennant back into the equation as he wouldn't congest that space. I don't think Babel is the solution either, he plays even further up, perhaps ever so slightly wider than Kuyt/Benayoun, but after his performance tonight - bar the cross - he was as poor as anyone. His touch, passing, dribbling doesn't look good enough. The full backs still need to do more as usual.

APOLOGIES IF I'VE STOLEN SOMEONE'S OPINION

by **LFC2007** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:33 am

EDITED

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:40 am

s@int wrote:I know what you mean Kharhaz, but everyone does it to a certain extent mate. If someone can sum up a few ideas into one post .... great. We all pick up bits of ideas, impressions and thoughts from others ..... its a forum, so unless you are so fixed in your beliefs that everyone else is wrong, you are bound to be influenced to some extent by others ideas.

Someone writes a post that you agree with ..... its a good post..... someone writes a post that you don't agree with ...... its cr@p Its not about original thought mate, just about giving an honest opinion.

To a certain extent everybody does, we all agree with certain points, every argument has its use. LFC2007 takes all the arguments, and he takes the opinions of everybody here, and forms them opinions as his own. He then gets the opinion of those whose takes all the opinions that LFC 2007 has gathered into a school essay as a good opinion. He is like a kid who has to form an essay to pass his GCSE, he joins a group, who are working together, they choose a book, they talk about the book, they pass there essays amongst each other, theres is good but mine is better. LFC2007 is the one who has to pass the exam but cannot be bothered to do the work so he steals of the others, he takes there own opinions and forms them as his own.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:41 am

The old 'trademark on common sense' :laugh:

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