Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:45 pm

If we are going to play with little width (or fullbacks giving us width) I would consider going with the diamond formation, with Gerrard giving support to our front two. The downside of course is you only have 3 players with goal threat, but as most of our goals have come from Gerrard and Torres anyway I don't see it being too much of a handicap.

Reina

Arbeloa Carra Agger Dossena

Masch
Lucas Alonso
Gerrard
Torres Keane

by **Number 9** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:46 pm

Sabre wrote:I bet I will not be considered diplomatic if I say Baz that I wouldn't mind to see both systems used often this season. Not changing every match of course, but I think there are opposition and games for both of them.

On the contrary, I think that if we made a poll around here most people would vote to stick to one of them and don't change it much!

Ok Id have this

Reina
Arbeloa Skrtel Carrra Dossena

Alonso Maschermonsterano fanta

Keane Gerrard Babel

Torres
See its sort of like a 4-2-3-1 but in a way its a 4-5-1 so in any way its a plausible system!
ever the diplomat i think the fanta side man done well and deserves his badge!

by **Fo Dne** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:48 pm

s@int wrote:We don't really have a lot of quality alternatives do we mate

I think absence makes the heart grow fonder where Babel is concerned as well. For me he is has done nothing much to make me think he will be any sort of answer to our problems tbh. Better than Kuyt.....yes, good enough to really make a difference this season...... probably not. I have more hopes for Lucas than Babel, but then again I did when we signed them both.

We need a good quality wide player or at the very least someone who can give us width from a wide midfield position (not quite the same) or I think whether we play 4-4-2, 4-2-1-2 or 4-2-3-1 won't really matter ....... we wont win the league. I don't really want to see Gerrard out wide, but he can play well there and short term it may be an answer, if not the solution to our problems.

Steven Gerrard is better from the right side of the pitch where he has defensive responsibilities and isn't expected to dictate games as he doesn't have the ability to do that, regardless of the "sun shines out of the best centre mids :censored:

" brigade thinking otherwise.

Babel isn't and never will be the answer, no matter how much "needs time, needs games, remember Henry" and the likes think either.

We've nearly got a good side. Just lacking one or two things.

Hoepfully Rafa can see them, I don't have much faith though am affraid.

by **Fo Dne** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:52 pm

Number 9 wrote:
Sabre wrote:I bet I will not be considered diplomatic if I say Baz that I wouldn't mind to see both systems used often this season. Not changing every match of course, but I think there are opposition and games for both of them.

On the contrary, I think that if we made a poll around here most people would vote to stick to one of them and don't change it much!

Ok Id have this

Reina
Arbeloa Skrtel Carrra Dossena

Alonso Maschermonsterano fanta

Keane Gerrard Babel

Torres
See its sort of like a 4-2-3-1 but in a way its a 4-5-1 so in any way its a plausible system!
ever the diplomat i think the fanta side man done well and deserves his badge!

£20,300,000 on a striker to play from the right....

What a joke.

:no

by **Number 9** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:57 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
Sabre wrote:I bet I will not be considered diplomatic if I say Baz that I wouldn't mind to see both systems used often this season. Not changing every match of course, but I think there are opposition and games for both of them.

On the contrary, I think that if we made a poll around here most people would vote to stick to one of them and don't change it much!

Ok Id have this

Reina
Arbeloa Skrtel Carrra Dossena

Alonso Maschermonsterano fanta

Keane Gerrard Babel

Torres
See its sort of like a 4-2-3-1 but in a way its a 4-5-1 so in any way its a plausible system!
ever the diplomat i think the fanta side man done well and deserves his badge!

£20,300,000 on a striker to play from the right....

What a joke.

yeah i know stu...sad aint it?

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:09 pm

s@int wrote:If we are going to play with little width (or fullbacks giving us width) I would consider going with the diamond formation, with Gerrard giving support to our front two. The downside of course is you only have 3 players with goal threat, but as most of our goals have come from Gerrard and Torres anyway I don't see it being too much of a handicap.

Reina

Arbeloa Carra Agger Dossena

Masch
Lucas Alonso
Gerrard
Torres Keane

I'd actually like to see something like that.

by **Sabre** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:21 pm

Yes, but if you have Arbeloa with Kuyt or Gerrard on front of him he might even look like a nice player. I don't want to be too hard on the Spaniard, he's a good lad, but he's simply average to good, I wouldn't give him all the wing for him.

If the one to make the helps is Lucas or Alonso and no-one chases back that wing, we'd convert Arbeloa in a scape goat soon enough.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:52 pm

4-2-3-1 gets the best out of our best players, Torres with Gerrard behind him and Alonso and Mascherano paired together in central midfield with Alonso having slightly more licence to step up. Really we should have just filled in the gaps either side of Gerrard with 2 quality players and we would have been laughing.

Last year Torres, Gerrard and Mascherano were awesome in the 4-2-3-1, and I’m sure if Alonso has his head right and is fit he would be excellent alongside Masch in that system

But for some reason Rafa has decided to pay £20 Million for Keane, and although he is a decent player, we simply don’t need him and especially if he not going to play right up alongside another striker and especially not for that price.

Funnily enough I think the signing of Keane may prove to be the biggest mistake of Rafa’s Liverpool career.

by **Fo Dne** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:37 am

Cool Hand Luke wrote:4-2-3-1 gets the best out of our best players, Torres with Gerrard behind him and Alonso and Mascherano paired together in central midfield with Alonso having slightly more licence to step up. Really we should have just filled in the gaps either side of Gerrard with 2 quality players and we would have been laughing.

Last year Torres, Gerrard and Mascherano were awesome in the 4-2-3-1, and I’m sure if Alonso has his head right and is fit he would be excellent alongside Masch in that system

But for some reason Rafa has decided to pay £20 Million for Keane, and although he is a decent player, we simply don’t need him and especially if he not going to play right up alongside another striker and especially not for that price.

Funnily enough I think the signing of Keane may prove to be the biggest mistake of Rafa’s Liverpool career.

Rubbish.

Steven Gerrard doesn't have the ability to make that position work for him against better sides.

I find it absoloutely rediculous people saying he shouldn't be played in a defensive role yet should be played in attacking role. He's good at both, exceptional at neither.

He's not got the intelligence or quality going forward to influence games against good sides in the position.

His best position is on the right, or centraly in a pairing, paired with an attacking creative player who dictates play.

Its not, never has been and never will be off a front player.

by **tonyeh** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:05 am

I fail to understand how a 4-2-3-1 formation solves Liverpool's width problem any more than a 4-4-2 formation. The problems are with Kuyt and Benny on the wings. They're just not good enough for the role, which incidentally demands quite a lot from a player.

Rafa paid 20 mil for Keane as a partner for Torres, not as another "failed striker relegated to right wing" like Kuyt. The partnership, however, will take time to form and people are just plain wrong when they say Liverpool don't need another top class striker in the squad. If they are serious about a title challenge, then it's an absolute must. At the very least, it forces the opposition to watch two Liverpool forwards, rather than just the one.

Liverpool's problem is their narrow attack patterns. Everything is down the centre of the field. This has been very apparent in the last two league games. A 4-2-3-1 formation still means that Liverpool have to attack down the middle of the pitch, it solves nothing and narrows the options for the play makers in the midfield positions, leaving only poor Torres up front to handle all the goals. Instead of giving Gerrard two options up front, he's left with only Torres and he's going to be a marked man this season. In fact, In wouldn't be surprised at all if an injury strikes him this year.

Not good enough, not by a long shot.

What Rafa needs to do is stick with the 4-4-2, put Pennant on the right who's Liverpool's only real winger and I know he's been rubbish lately (but no worse than Kuyt) and Babel on the left and allow the Torres/Keane partnership to at least develop.

If he puts Keane on the wing, he might as well have given the 20 mil to me. Not a bad idea, but equally pointless for Liverpool.

Other options are to quickly buy dedicated wingers, even if they are unproven and hope for the best.

Tony

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:09 am

Fo Dne wrote:
Cool Hand Luke wrote:4-2-3-1 gets the best out of our best players, Torres with Gerrard behind him and Alonso and Mascherano paired together in central midfield with Alonso having slightly more licence to step up. Really we should have just filled in the gaps either side of Gerrard with 2 quality players and we would have been laughing.

Last year Torres, Gerrard and Mascherano were awesome in the 4-2-3-1, and I’m sure if Alonso has his head right and is fit he would be excellent alongside Masch in that system

But for some reason Rafa has decided to pay £20 Million for Keane, and although he is a decent player, we simply don’t need him and especially if he not going to play right up alongside another striker and especially not for that price.

Funnily enough I think the signing of Keane may prove to be the biggest mistake of Rafa’s Liverpool career.

Rubbish.

Steven Gerrard doesn't have the ability to make that position work for him against better sides.

I find it absoloutely rediculous people saying he shouldn't be played in a defensive role yet should be played in attacking role. He's good at both, exceptional at neither.

He's not got the intelligence or quality going forward to influence games against good sides in the position.

His best position is on the right, or centraly in a pairing, paired with an attacking creative player who dictates play.

Its not, never has been and never will be off a front player.

While I agree support striker is not Gerrards BEST position, I prefer him there to on the right Stu. He gets good returns from both positions (goals and assists), but does less damage to us, when he goes wandering from central positions rather than from the wing.

I agree that he hasn't shown much against the better sides when played support striker...... but he didn't do much from the wing against the better sides either.

I don't see a great problem playing him in either position against the weaker sides as he is always likely to knock in a goal or make a great pass, but against the better sides I prefer him in CMidfield which I still feel is his best position. Unfortunately with our current lack of wide players we may have no choice but to accept the inevitable and move him out wide in the short term.

by **desmdlow** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:04 am

What about this..

Reina

Skrtel Carra Agger

Arbeloa/Degen Dossena/Aurelio
Masch/Alonso

Gerrard/Benni Keane/Babel

Torres/Keane

May looks abit defensive though..

by **Owzat** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:07 am

s@int wrote:I agree that he hasn't shown much against the better sides when played support striker...... but he didn't do much from the wing against the better sides either.

I was thinking about Gerrard and his goals the other day, who they come against etc. While it doesn't necessarily indicate a good or bad performance, it is still quite interesting.

Gerrard Goals (04/05-08/09)

Appearances : 202
Goals : 66
Goals/app : 0.327

vs Man Utd : 0 goals in 9 appearances (0.000 goals/app)
vs Chelsea : 1 goal in 17 appearances (0.000 goals/app)
vs Arsenal : 4 goals in 13 appearances (0.317 goals/app)

While you don't expect Gerrard to score a great many goals, like a striker would, he scored 65 goals in four seasons under Rafa and yet only five of those against the 'Big Four' rivals who made up nearly 20% of all his appearances in that period. Cometh the hour, cometh the man - or maybe not. It's no coincidence that we have a good record against Arsenal (Won 33.33%), a reasonable one against Chelsea (Won 25%), and a poor one against the mancs (Won 11.11%, an FA Cup tie)

vs Big Four Rivals : 5 goals in 39 appearances (0.128 goals/app)
vs Rest of Premiership : 31 goals in 92 appearances (0.337 goals/app)
vs Rest of England : 12 goals in 31 appearances (0.387 goals/app)

vs Non-English Sides : 18 goals in 40 appearances (0.450 goals/app)

Gerrard's favourite opposition (04/05-08/09)

5 goals : TNS
4 goals : Middlesboro, Arsenal, Villa, Newcastle, Luton
3 goals : Bolton, West Ham

Only twice under Rafa has Gerrard scored 20+ goals in a season, last season and 2005/6 when he scored SEVEN against minnows in pre-qualifiying rounds of the Champions Leage. Obviously he's more likely to score goals in a more central and advanced position where he's not expected to stay/get wide and cross. Whether it's in the best interests of the team is a different matter, it certainly helped towards the end of last season - although near half his goals came in an 11 game run in the last couple of months of 2007, shows that he doesn't need resting.

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:57 am

Steven Gerrard is better from the right side of the pitch where he has defensive responsibilities and isn't expected to dictate games as he doesn't have the ability to do that, regardless of the "sun shines out of the best centre mids " brigade thinking otherwise.

So when did you change your mind then sunshine ? Kinell goldfish memory or what, you were "sun shines out of the best centre mids" furher for the last three years.

Make your mind up, stop jumping the fence, and AGAIN you have no right to take the pi$$ on peoples stances about where Gerrard plays, because you've now hopped from both sides of the fence you big wet blanket.

Quote from Stu the singleton " Hes the best box to box central midfield in the country bar none"

Really it beggers belief the amount of people on here that have more than one face. :glare:

by **lakes10** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:29 am

right now we can not play any of them as we have no wide option.

4 4 2 has always worked for most teams and i still think if you can master it you can beat all.

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