Liverpool FC Forum

by **aCe'** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:53 am

now i know many have yet and again iterated their frustration at our apparent change of formation this season to 4-4-2 again. Many agree that some of the best football we have played of late only came about when we switched to the 4-2-3-1 late last season. Now dont get me wrong here, but i am starting to think that the only reason we played that 4-2-3-1 last season was because the players we had at our disposal dictated that upon us.

ONE WAY OF SEEING IT
For now, having signed Keane for 20mill or so, we are logically inclined to play him upfront alongside Torres in a front 2 pairing thus reducing our chances of seeing that 4-2-3-1 regularly unless one of the front 2 is injured. In the Boro game the pair exchanged some nice passes upfront and a case can be made that atleast one of them should have scored having been setup by the other. Indeed over time and as they get used to the formation and tactics, i am sure we can expect much more from the front 2 in terms of goals and all that.

ANOTHER WAY OF SEEING IT
Torres and Gerrard are still our main players regardless of whom it is we signed. Last season they were both fantastic in their roles and any transfers or changes in the team should have complemented our formation and not changed it. While Keane is a good player, he is quite simply no Torres. Last couple of games Torres has played rather poorly -by his own standards- and many would attribute that to not playing alone upfront in those games. He thrives on being the lone striker, the center of attention and the focus of all forward play. Being the unselfish player he is, if he can find other options he'd definitely pick a pass before trying to take on a man to then try and attempt a shot on target. As most of his goals of last season show, he and indeed Liverpool would be better off taking on that defender and attempting that shot on target because you know that he will score a goal or two for you that way if he does it. Again, while Keane is seen by many as a very good player and someone who could quite possibly complement Torres's game rather than harm it, the team is better off playing Keane out of position quite simply to offer that continuity everyone seems to be going on about.
******
When i say out of position i mean either down the side in place of either Kuyt or Babel, or in the playmaker role Gerrard played last season which imo is waay too deep in midfield to be called by many a 'second striker' role. If you think Keane should play behind Torres in a second striker role then that -in my books- is the same as saying we play 2 strikers upfront and thus the whole 4-2-3-1 argument would then be invalid.

Sorry if the post is too long but i see this mentioned in pretty much every thread and thought it might be better if we could have a poll now that the season has started and we have seen performances under both formations with different permutations of players..etc

by **Espionage** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:48 am

I really dont see any need to change the Gerrard and Torres partnership. I think that Keane would do well in the Kuyt/Babel role on the sides as he has the necessary pace/trickery/ability to pop up with goals. Of course depending the availability of Masch/Alonso Gerrard could move back to CM and have Keane central. The key to 4-2-3-1 is always going to be the fitness/form of Torres, we have the at least 2 players in all other positions besides that key lone striker.

by **aCe'** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:13 am

hey by the way i meant 4-4-2 not 4-2-2.. my bad.. dont know how to change it or if its possible at all but yea ! you get what i meant

by **Toffeehater** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:18 am

I think this should be the team for the next game , playing the 4-2-3-1 formation.

Reina

Carragher Agger Skrtel Dossena

Gerrard Masch
Kuyt Keane Babel

Torres

Bench : Alonso , Cavierli , Ngog , El Zhar , Hypia , Arbeloa , Pennant

Gerrard playing in Alonso's position and pushing up all the way , giving us that extra attacking power . masch to hold the defense together. Keane playing as a second striker behind torres , those two can play together and i was impressed by the way keane set torres up on 3 occasions today . Kuyt has been impressive on the right and babel is the only winger we have that can take on players

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:22 am

I think Rafa is going to have to change something before the Villa game, we wont get lucky like that everytime we play. Time to do something IMO, there isnt sufficient width in our side at the moment and neither Kuyt nor Benayoun are good enough or offer us this width.

I would revert back to the formation that got us back on track last season, play Mascha and Xabi as the two DM's, Gerrard right Keane center, Babel left and Torres upfront. We'll look much better that way, and if Rafa persists with this current tactic I fear we'll come unstuck sooner rather than later.

by **Number 9** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:30 am

by **Owzat** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:08 am

Well the only goal Torres has scored this season was with Keane off. I think the temptation to switch back to Torres on his own up front will be greater when Mascherano and Lucas return.

Hard to believe but we're on a run of nine league games unbeaten, that may well end where we were last broken - by the mancs, in our only defeat in the last 17 league games.

by **Fo Dne** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:28 pm

Bamaga man wrote:I think Rafa is going to have to change something before the Villa game, we wont get lucky like that everytime we play. Time to do something IMO, there isnt sufficient width in our side at the moment and neither Kuyt nor Benayoun are good enough or offer us this width.

I would revert back to the formation that got us back on track last season, play Mascha and Xabi as the two DM's, Gerrard right Keane center, Babel left and Torres upfront. We'll look much better that way, and if Rafa persists with this current tactic I fear we'll come unstuck sooner rather than later.

What happened to Gerrard MUST play in the middle and "no fecking way" to Alonso and Mascherano in a midfield two together?

Or are you saying its ok because they'd have Torres, Gerrard (on the right) Keane and Babel on the left ahead of them... which coincidently is pretty much exactly what I said when you scoffed at the suggestion.

4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, 4,1-1-1-1-1-1, 2,2,2,2,2... Its doesn't matter how you write it down on a peice of paper kids. Get it into your heads...

Torres Keane
Babel Mascherano Alonso Gerrard
Dossena Hyypia Carragher Arbeloa
Reina

Thats probably our best side and it doesn't matter whether you write it down as a 4-4-2 or any other stupid formation which involves moving the players by an inch here of there.

With that formation, Keane will still drop deep, Babel will still play like a left sided forward, Torres will still play on the shoulder... etc etc.

For me, that team has major weaknesses also.

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:37 pm

4-1-3-2

Reina

Carragher Agger Skrtel Dossena

Masch or Lucas

(New Winger) Gerrard or Alonso Babel

Torres Keane

Bench : Alonso , Cavierli , Ngog , El Zhar ,Jack Hobb , Arbeloa , Pennant

Player sell : Hypia, Kuyt, AV

by **mart** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:46 pm

Well its all basic variations of the same formation really. Any straightforward 442 formation will end up as 4231 or something like that as our "wide" players likes to move to the center.

So we end up with something like this:

Reina

Arbeloa/Carra Skrtel Agger/carra Dossena

Masch Alonso

Gerrard Keane Babel

Torres

by **Fo Dne** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:51 pm

mart wrote:Well its all basic variations of the same formation really. Any straightforward 442 formation will end up as 4231 or something like that as our "wide" players likes to move to the center.

So we end up with something like this:

Reina

Arbeloa/Carra Skrtel Agger/carra Dossena

Masch Alonso

Gerrard Keane Babel

Torres

Your front six is so different to mine, why didn't I ever think of that...

:no

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:15 pm

We don't really have a lot of quality alternatives do we mate

I think absence makes the heart grow fonder where Babel is concerned as well. For me he is has done nothing much to make me think he will be any sort of answer to our problems tbh. Better than Kuyt.....yes, good enough to really make a difference this season...... probably not. I have more hopes for Lucas than Babel, but then again I did when we signed them both.

We need a good quality wide player or at the very least someone who can give us width from a wide midfield position (not quite the same) or I think whether we play 4-4-2, 4-2-1-2 or 4-2-3-1 won't really matter ....... we wont win the league. I don't really want to see Gerrard out wide, but he can play well there and short term it may be an answer, if not the solution to our problems.

by **Sabre** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:26 pm

Both systems are valid. I've seen Liverpool playing very well under 4-4-2 and rotation with Gerrard in the right, the season he scored a lot of goals. I have seen very strong performances in CL later stages with Mascherano and Alonso as a pairing and Gerrard on front of them.

But I'm not a convinced of a 4-4-2 with Kuyt and Benayoun on the wings. With the players we have I'd voted for a 4-2-3-1, with Both Alonso, Mash and Gerrard playing together, Keane as a second striker and Babel on the left -- since we don't have a better player.

by **Number 9** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:32 pm

Sabre wrote:Both systems are valid. I've seen Liverpool playing very well under 4-4-2 and rotation with Gerrard in the right, the season he scored a lot of goals. I have seen very strong performances in CL later stages with Mascherano and Alonso as a pairing and Gerrard on front of them.

But I'm not a convinced of a 4-4-2 with Kuyt and Benayoun on the wings. With the players we have I'd voted for a 4-2-3-1, with Both Alonso, Mash and Gerrard playing together, Keane as a second striker and Babel on the left -- since we don't have a better player.

ever diplomatic!!!

Sabre i love you matey...I like this as well
:buttrock

4-4-2

by **Sabre** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:37 pm

I bet I will not be considered diplomatic if I say Baz that I wouldn't mind to see both systems used often this season. Not changing every match of course, but I think there are opposition and games for both of them.

On the contrary, I think that if we made a poll around here most people would vote to stick to one of them and don't change it much!

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