Liverpool FC Forum

by **RedBlood** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:50 am

rafa09 wrote:Love this topic because it,s all POSITIVE!! Thats what we need. Slagging off the team is pointless.We,ll do leige on wed.Then barry will give pen away next week in last min,for stevie-g to score winner in last minute AGAIN,just to MON off

totally agrre m8

moaning gets u nowhere its about time some people on here gave ita rest & just got behind the team 4 a change

weve played at like 30% & won both games aggers still 2 come back (100%) masherano will have babel lucas & mascherano all back next week, keane & dossena r getting better by the week, gerrard will be fitter next game

its not as bad as people make out

YNWA

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:05 am

I have to say that I wouldnt risk Gerrard against Liege if hes carrying a slight knock. I suppose it all depends on what the doctors say about it, and the risk involved in playing him.

But even still I think I'd consider rotating for this game, but only 1 player (Gerrard) thats a low number compared to Rafas' track record. I'd play pretty much the same team and if by then we're coasting it, bring in the changes and give the likes of N'Gog and Plessis 30 mins or so.

Although for me I wouldnt really see it as a catastrophey if we got knocked of the CL this year, I can just imagine the critisism Rafa and the players would come under, and even more so if Rafa rested the likes of Gerrard and Torres. So there is no way in hell I'd rest Torres, if Gerrards being rested. One of them has to play IMO, which in itself is quite a sad state of affairs to find that we rely way to heavily on our two best players but still, I wouldnt feel overly confident in beating Liege without Torres and Gerrard considering our early looking form.

Whatever the result against Liege though, I agree that we have to keep the pressure on our rivals. That goes without saying if you have title challenging aspirations.

by **heimdall** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:39 am

6 points is 6 points and is a great start to the season. See I can be positive

by **aCe'** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:11 am

Sorry to ruin all the positivity but some of the stuff I am reading here just baffles me to be honest. Why is everyone talking about this being our perfect opportunity to beat ManUtd ? We have been poor to say the least in our first 2 games and while united haven’t quite set the world alight in their first game you just need to look at the players they were missing in that game and it starts to make sense. We weren’t missing any players and we played like craap and were very lucky to get points. I’m not saying beating United in a couple of weeks is out of the question but rather just wondering how after 2 :censored:

poor displays we can come out and say that this is the time we beat United when clearly we seem to be struggling in every department including our usually solid defense. For now, I would be happy with us concentrating on trying to score early and dictate the play rather than just hoof the ball around and rely on our “champions mentality” of trying to get a win late on. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.

by **bigmick** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:32 am

aCe' wrote:Sorry to ruin all the positivity but some of the stuff I am reading here just baffles me to be honest. Why is everyone talking about this being our perfect opportunity to beat ManUtd ? We have been poor to say the least in our first 2 games and while united haven’t quite set the world alight in their first game you just need to look at the players they were missing in that game and it starts to make sense. We weren’t missing any players and we played like craap and were very lucky to get points. I’m not saying beating United in a couple of weeks is out of the question but rather just wondering how after 2 poor displays we can come out and say that this is the time we beat United when clearly we seem to be struggling in every department including our usually solid defense. For now, I would be happy with us concentrating on trying to score early and dictate the play rather than just hoof the ball around and rely on our “champions mentality” of trying to get a win late on. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.

I'm not sure anybody is saying it's the perfect opportunity to beat Man Utd, and I certainly don't think anyone is getting carried away with our form. The point of the thread if you read it back through (and I can't blame you if you can't be ersed TBH) is more of a plea that we don't do the same as last season and throw away an opportunity to keep the pressure up on our rivals, by being silly in matches not against the big four.

Villa away would in previous seasons have been a classic match for us to go for a bit of styling and then settle for a point. My hope is that we recognise the fact that we have a chance to put real pressure on our rivals and go all out for a win. At least that way if we were to perish again against the Mancs we wouldn't be miles behind them.

I would certainly agree though that if we play like we have been doing though against the Mancs we'll get eaten alive. We won't though, we all know that.

by **aCe'** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:45 am

thanks for not blaming me then..hehe
Well was referring to the second post. second paragraph.
I get what you were saying and have to agree with most of it i should say. Villa are a great side going forward but i think that if we go there and play our defensive style we might struggle to get anything out of that game. Defensively they dont seem half as good as they are made out to be and if we can go there and dictate play and defend set pieces well enough then i see no reason why we cant pick all points.
Anyways ManUtd, whole different story !

by **Number 9** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:49 am

aCe' wrote:Sorry to ruin all the positivity but some of the stuff I am reading here just baffles me to be honest. Why is everyone talking about this being our perfect opportunity to beat ManUtd ? We have been poor to say the least in our first 2 games and while united haven’t quite set the world alight in their first game you just need to look at the players they were missing in that game and it starts to make sense. We weren’t missing any players and we played like craap and were very lucky to get points. I’m not saying beating United in a couple of weeks is out of the question but rather just wondering how after 2 poor displays we can come out and say that this is the time we beat United when clearly we seem to be struggling in every department including our usually solid defense. For now, I would be happy with us concentrating on trying to score early and dictate the play rather than just hoof the ball around and rely on our “champions mentality” of trying to get a win late on. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.

Would'nt you agree that playing poorly and winning twice and gaining 6 points is a great state of affairs??
Fer fu'ck sake if we played like Brazil and had 6 points id still be :censored:

a hoop.Its clear that some want to focus on the negatives but in all honesty we can only get better.
I was starving football(proper competitive football) all summer as im sure lots on here were as well...although we have not played well we have grinded out two wins!
The way I look at it is..we have been shi'te...what will happen when we actually start playing well??

Two games in and it could'nt be any better..its bound to give the lads heart...cause im only a supporter like the rest,and it does me!!

by **maguskwt** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:51 am

I agree with big mick on gerrard on this one. play everyone else against liege... but gerrard might very well need some rest. It's a long season after all and we need gerrard to be spurring the team on in the second half of the season as well. He wasn't 100% against boro, even though he was trying with tackles and runs he wasn't really at his best.

by **aCe'** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:09 am

Number 9 wrote:
aCe' wrote:Sorry to ruin all the positivity but some of the stuff I am reading here just baffles me to be honest. Why is everyone talking about this being our perfect opportunity to beat ManUtd ? We have been poor to say the least in our first 2 games and while united haven’t quite set the world alight in their first game you just need to look at the players they were missing in that game and it starts to make sense. We weren’t missing any players and we played like craap and were very lucky to get points. I’m not saying beating United in a couple of weeks is out of the question but rather just wondering how after 2 poor displays we can come out and say that this is the time we beat United when clearly we seem to be struggling in every department including our usually solid defense. For now, I would be happy with us concentrating on trying to score early and dictate the play rather than just hoof the ball around and rely on our “champions mentality” of trying to get a win late on. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.

Would'nt you agree that playing poorly and winning twice and gaining 6 points is a great state of affairs??
Fer fu'ck sake if we played like Brazil and had 6 points id still be a hoop.Its clear that some want to focus on the negatives but in all honesty we can only get better.
I was starving football(proper competitive football) all summer as im sure lots on here were as well...although we have not played well we have grinded out two wins!
The way I look at it is..we have been shi'te...what will happen when we actually start playing well??

Two games in and it could'nt be any better..its bound to give the lads heart...cause im only a supporter like the rest,and it does me!!

dont quite seem to see the point of your post but yea im fckin over the moon that we got 6 out of 6 as well. Its not about the performance if we get the result i agree but i was just pointing out that our displays thus far dont merit going out on a limb and saying that its the perfect time to be playing ManUtd cuz the way i see it , its quite the other way around. Playing Manutd (home or away for all that matters as we have come to see losing yet and again) you have to be at your very best defensively and going forward to get anything out of the fixture. Right about now we are nowhere near our best and while we have 6 out of 6 im not sure in 2 weeks time we'll suddenly start playing to our best as you seem to be suggesting. We'll get better in time but still soon to be talking about matching Utd imo. And just because we played sht and won 2 doesnt mean that once we get better we'll start winning by broader margins because quite simply we are going to be playing better opposition soon where playing sht would probably mean that we get nothing.

by **Number 9** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:23 am

aCe' wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
aCe' wrote:Sorry to ruin all the positivity but some of the stuff I am reading here just baffles me to be honest. Why is everyone talking about this being our perfect opportunity to beat ManUtd ? We have been poor to say the least in our first 2 games and while united haven’t quite set the world alight in their first game you just need to look at the players they were missing in that game and it starts to make sense. We weren’t missing any players and we played like craap and were very lucky to get points. I’m not saying beating United in a couple of weeks is out of the question but rather just wondering how after 2 poor displays we can come out and say that this is the time we beat United when clearly we seem to be struggling in every department including our usually solid defense. For now, I would be happy with us concentrating on trying to score early and dictate the play rather than just hoof the ball around and rely on our “champions mentality” of trying to get a win late on. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.

Would'nt you agree that playing poorly and winning twice and gaining 6 points is a great state of affairs??
Fer fu'ck sake if we played like Brazil and had 6 points id still be a hoop.Its clear that some want to focus on the negatives but in all honesty we can only get better.
I was starving football(proper competitive football) all summer as im sure lots on here were as well...although we have not played well we have grinded out two wins!
The way I look at it is..we have been shi'te...what will happen when we actually start playing well??

Two games in and it could'nt be any better..its bound to give the lads heart...cause im only a supporter like the rest,and it does me!!

dont quite seem to see the point of your post but yea im fckin over the moon that we got 6 out of 6 as well. Its not about the performance if we get the result i agree but i was just pointing out that our displays thus far dont merit going out on a limb and saying that its the perfect time to be playing ManUtd cuz the way i see it , its quite the other way around. Playing Manutd (home or away for all that matters as we have come to see losing yet and again) you have to be at your very best defensively and going forward to get anything out of the fixture. Right about now we are nowhere near our best and while we have 6 out of 6 im not sure in 2 weeks time we'll suddenly start playing to our best as you seem to be suggesting. We'll get better in time but still soon to be talking about matching Utd imo. And just because we played sht and won 2 doesnt mean that once we get better we'll start winning by broader margins because quite simply we are going to be playing better opposition soon where playing sht would probably mean that we get nothing.

The point of my post which you failed to grasp was that there was no point in your negativity!
Your later attempt to further and hence carry through your obvious pessimism is in my opinion unjust and a little harsh and unjustified!
We need to beat Villa,then UTD need to worry about us!! :nod

Simple as that!

by **aCe'** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:26 am

Number 9 wrote:
aCe' wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
aCe' wrote:Sorry to ruin all the positivity but some of the stuff I am reading here just baffles me to be honest. Why is everyone talking about this being our perfect opportunity to beat ManUtd ? We have been poor to say the least in our first 2 games and while united haven’t quite set the world alight in their first game you just need to look at the players they were missing in that game and it starts to make sense. We weren’t missing any players and we played like craap and were very lucky to get points. I’m not saying beating United in a couple of weeks is out of the question but rather just wondering how after 2 poor displays we can come out and say that this is the time we beat United when clearly we seem to be struggling in every department including our usually solid defense. For now, I would be happy with us concentrating on trying to score early and dictate the play rather than just hoof the ball around and rely on our “champions mentality” of trying to get a win late on. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.

Would'nt you agree that playing poorly and winning twice and gaining 6 points is a great state of affairs??
Fer fu'ck sake if we played like Brazil and had 6 points id still be a hoop.Its clear that some want to focus on the negatives but in all honesty we can only get better.
I was starving football(proper competitive football) all summer as im sure lots on here were as well...although we have not played well we have grinded out two wins!
The way I look at it is..we have been shi'te...what will happen when we actually start playing well??

Two games in and it could'nt be any better..its bound to give the lads heart...cause im only a supporter like the rest,and it does me!!

dont quite seem to see the point of your post but yea im fckin over the moon that we got 6 out of 6 as well. Its not about the performance if we get the result i agree but i was just pointing out that our displays thus far dont merit going out on a limb and saying that its the perfect time to be playing ManUtd cuz the way i see it , its quite the other way around. Playing Manutd (home or away for all that matters as we have come to see losing yet and again) you have to be at your very best defensively and going forward to get anything out of the fixture. Right about now we are nowhere near our best and while we have 6 out of 6 im not sure in 2 weeks time we'll suddenly start playing to our best as you seem to be suggesting. We'll get better in time but still soon to be talking about matching Utd imo. And just because we played sht and won 2 doesnt mean that once we get better we'll start winning by broader margins because quite simply we are going to be playing better opposition soon where playing sht would probably mean that we get nothing.

The point of my post which you failed to grasp was that there was no point in your negativity!
Your later attempt to further and hence carry through your obvious pessimism is in my opinion unjust and a little harsh and unjustified!
We need to beat Villa,then UTD need to worry about us!!
Simple as that!

hehe... fair enough .. all rainbows and butterflies

by **Number 9** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:40 am

aCe' wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
aCe' wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
aCe' wrote:Sorry to ruin all the positivity but some of the stuff I am reading here just baffles me to be honest. Why is everyone talking about this being our perfect opportunity to beat ManUtd ? We have been poor to say the least in our first 2 games and while united haven’t quite set the world alight in their first game you just need to look at the players they were missing in that game and it starts to make sense. We weren’t missing any players and we played like craap and were very lucky to get points. I’m not saying beating United in a couple of weeks is out of the question but rather just wondering how after 2 poor displays we can come out and say that this is the time we beat United when clearly we seem to be struggling in every department including our usually solid defense. For now, I would be happy with us concentrating on trying to score early and dictate the play rather than just hoof the ball around and rely on our “champions mentality” of trying to get a win late on. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.

Would'nt you agree that playing poorly and winning twice and gaining 6 points is a great state of affairs??
Fer fu'ck sake if we played like Brazil and had 6 points id still be a hoop.Its clear that some want to focus on the negatives but in all honesty we can only get better.
I was starving football(proper competitive football) all summer as im sure lots on here were as well...although we have not played well we have grinded out two wins!
The way I look at it is..we have been shi'te...what will happen when we actually start playing well??

Two games in and it could'nt be any better..its bound to give the lads heart...cause im only a supporter like the rest,and it does me!!

dont quite seem to see the point of your post but yea im fckin over the moon that we got 6 out of 6 as well. Its not about the performance if we get the result i agree but i was just pointing out that our displays thus far dont merit going out on a limb and saying that its the perfect time to be playing ManUtd cuz the way i see it , its quite the other way around. Playing Manutd (home or away for all that matters as we have come to see losing yet and again) you have to be at your very best defensively and going forward to get anything out of the fixture. Right about now we are nowhere near our best and while we have 6 out of 6 im not sure in 2 weeks time we'll suddenly start playing to our best as you seem to be suggesting. We'll get better in time but still soon to be talking about matching Utd imo. And just because we played sht and won 2 doesnt mean that once we get better we'll start winning by broader margins because quite simply we are going to be playing better opposition soon where playing sht would probably mean that we get nothing.

The point of my post which you failed to grasp was that there was no point in your negativity!
Your later attempt to further and hence carry through your obvious pessimism is in my opinion unjust and a little harsh and unjustified!
We need to beat Villa,then UTD need to worry about us!!
Simple as that!

hehe... fair enough .. all rainbows and butterflies

Far from it big lad but dont shi'te on the good times when ya have a bit of luck!

by **banana** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:38 am

Number 9 wrote:
aCe' wrote:Sorry to ruin all the positivity but some of the stuff I am reading here just baffles me to be honest. Why is everyone talking about this being our perfect opportunity to beat ManUtd ? We have been poor to say the least in our first 2 games and while united haven’t quite set the world alight in their first game you just need to look at the players they were missing in that game and it starts to make sense. We weren’t missing any players and we played like craap and were very lucky to get points. I’m not saying beating United in a couple of weeks is out of the question but rather just wondering how after 2 poor displays we can come out and say that this is the time we beat United when clearly we seem to be struggling in every department including our usually solid defense. For now, I would be happy with us concentrating on trying to score early and dictate the play rather than just hoof the ball around and rely on our “champions mentality” of trying to get a win late on. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.

Would'nt you agree that playing poorly and winning twice and gaining 6 points is a great state of affairs??
Fer fu'ck sake if we played like Brazil and had 6 points id still be a hoop.Its clear that some want to focus on the negatives but in all honesty we can only get better.
I was starving football(proper competitive football) all summer as im sure lots on here were as well...although we have not played well we have grinded out two wins!
The way I look at it is..we have been shi'te...what will happen when we actually start playing well??

Two games in and it could'nt be any better..its bound to give the lads heart...cause im only a supporter like the rest,and it does me!!

You're saying the obvious. We have not been playing well and our wins have been LUCKY.

Luck can sometimes be mistaken for quality. Torres is quality. He wanted that win over Sunderland. And Gerrard wanted the win over Boro.

However, I do believe that we need to play a LOT better if we are to challenge for the title. If we play like this against better teams we will get slaughtered. No doubt.

Fair play to Dirk, he was not our worst performer last night. But, just seing him on the team sheet with his extremely limited capabilities makes me wonder how far behind Chelsea and United we really are. I was very disappointed with Arbeloa and Dossene against Boro. There was also evidence that perhaps Gerrard should be moved right or just behind Torres in a 4-2-3-1 setup as he did not contribute much as a pure midfielser apart from taking responsibility in the dying seconds.

When Masch is back I would definately go back to 4-2-3-1 with him and Alonso in front of Skrtl and Carra and Gerrard just behind Torres with Babel or Keane on the right and with a new quality signing on left. The fullbacks should be Dossena and Arbeloa.

Interesting to see how improved young El Zhar looks. He could perform well in lesser games.

by **Toffeehater** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:45 am

s@int wrote:To be perfectly honest, without Torres and Gerrard in our opening two games we would not be sat here with smiles on our faces, but moaning and groaning about our title challenge being almost over before it started. (Not that we ever over react)

We are not so good that we can manage without Gerrard at the moment, probably one of the reasons that Rafa risked him today! Once we have got our form and are playing well THEN maybe we can risk resting one or two key players, but not yet.

I have to agree with that but look at manure , without ronaldo and tevez , they could only manage a draw against newcastle . Arsenal without fabregas to pull the strings and passes from midfield were poor in their first 2 games , lost one and barely won the other and they are not up against the strongest opposition . Every team has one or two of their top stars that they rely on , i just hope that Keane and babel will step up this season and pull out match winners instead of always depending on torres or stevie to pull us out of it . Yesterday we kept looking for torres whenever we had the ball and keane was open on a couple of occasions and he should have gotten the ball instead . If rafa shows them the video of the game , he has to show them these mistakes , revert back to the 4-2-3-1 on Wednesday , standard will come to play for a draw and hope they can nick it on penalties

by **Owzat** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:30 am

s@int wrote:I would play our strongest team against Liege, I think we are on a roll and while the old "you dont change a winning team" saying may have lost a lot of meaning over the last few years, I still believe you should play your best players when they are available, especially when you are struggling for form.p

If disaster struck and we were knocked out of the CL, it would not only mean we would have to forget about any more signings, but would certainly impact on the confidence and the momentum we are starting to build.

They have to play the strongest XI available against Liege, to go out at this stage would be disastrous. Rafa does need to get the group stages right. six games and needing to win only three, we should be coasting through these not needing to win the last three. If we're coasting against Liege then the likes of Torres and Gerrard can come off, no need to gamble at this stage in the CL. We've lost at home to other teams so nothing is certain, drawing away makes people overconfident, if the opposition were that easy we'd have won away. If the performances are repeated from then first leg then we're in stuck, we need to win.

Also, if we lose and then have the testing villa away game, the manc game will start playing on the minds too and we'll probably slip back into draw mode. Last season's start was marred by too many draws, we need to win much more than the 50 odd percent that Rafa standardly does (70% or more to get 27 wins)

s@int wrote:To be perfectly honest, without Torres and Gerrard in our opening two games we would not be sat here with smiles on our faces, but moaning and groaning about our title challenge being almost over before it started. (Not that we ever over
react)

We are not so good that we can manage without Gerrard at the moment, probably one of the reasons that Rafa risked him today! Once we have got our form and are playing well THEN maybe we can risk resting one or two key players, but not yet.

There are games to rest players, visits by Stoke, Hull, West Brom, Sunderland and games like that. Not big CL games, away games against testing visits to VP or visits by the mancs. Our squad is nowhere near strong enough to take those risks, we've looked pretty thin on resources without Babel, Lucas and Mascherano.

The positive is we've won both league games and drawn our CL qualifier away, the less positive is that we've not been convincing in any of the three games and could just as easily have lost all three. Results are in the bag, the performances are what count towards future fixtures not results. Unconvincingly beating Boro won't make beating Liege easy

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