Liverpool FC Forum

by **Toffeehater** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:39 pm

To answer manhatten question , it has been rumored that rafa is after eric abidal the barcelona defender , see the transfer rumor thread

by **puroresu** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:59 pm

Toffeehater wrote:
puroresu wrote:I dont think Barry is better than Alonso so we will be replacing him with an inferior player.

, made me laugh that . An inferior player who's the captain of villa? , the same player that has been keeping hargreaves and lampard out of the england side? Sure the same player who has been 1 of the most consistent performers in the premier league

We're replacing alonso with a inferior player? Well wake up lad , that player has outshone alonso for the past 2 seasons and alonso is so off key now and unless he makes a dramatic recovery in the last 2 games provided he plays i'd rather we offload him

Playing centre mid for england means nothing to me. Its England for god's sake. He may of performed well v the low international sides but croatia was the test and Barry was awful. We need to sign top quality players. Players that could get into our title rival's sides and players the top teams dont want us to have. Barry is decent but not what we need to get to the next level.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Fri May 02, 2008 9:46 pm

yeah it's england for god's sake...the same england that because of barry, hargreaves (united) and lampard (chelsea) can't play for. last time i checked united and chelsea were above us.

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Fri May 02, 2008 10:06 pm

Toffeehater wrote:To answer manhatten question , it has been rumored that rafa is after eric abidal the barcelona defender , see the transfer rumor thread

I rate the guy, but he's more of a solid type of fullback than an attacking one. Plus he has a ridiculous buyout fee.

by **LFC2007** » Fri May 02, 2008 11:40 pm

He doesn't inspire me, and nor do the reports tbh.

Ok, he's a good quality CM and LB - and a fair bit better than some of the relative cannon fodder we possess, but he doesn't have that cutting edge in terms of quality we need in the top third of the field.

We don't need a CM, and he's no improvement on Alonso. As a LB?

I can see it possibly, and if we have made a player-plus cash offer, fair enough - so long as it's not so much cash and more like: Carson + Benayoun + Voronin (worth a try) + £2m.

Overall, I'm not convinced where he'd fit in, and I don't feel he's a player who'll take us to the next level. Villa will be absolutely dogged in their attempts to keep him, so I'd expect a large fee would be needed to prise him away. It's another reason why I don't think we should go for him, but it's mainly the fact that I don't feel he's what we need or ought to prioritise as a potential signing, that puts me off.

by **tubby** » Fri May 02, 2008 11:42 pm

So wheres the money for this Barry bid coming from then? I wouldnt have though we would be buying anyone until the owners situation is sorted. Anyway Barry is a decent player but I would have preferred we get someone decent on the right first.

by **bigmick** » Sat May 03, 2008 12:36 am

Well Barry is obviously a good player, I don't think many people would dispute that. The key issues though are firstly how much will he cost and can we afford him, and secondly where is he going to play and what impact will that have on our existing personel.

Firstly there is the cost issue. Figures such as ten mill are being bandied about, and in truth in the current market he is probably good value at that. Looking at what the Mancs paid for Hargreaves and Carrick, 10 mill for Barry would appear quite cheap as he is probably a similar level of player to those two. My suspicion is though and always has been that MON is not quite as daft as many on here would have you believe, and he is going to drive a harder bargain for his captain. They already have Carson, but they know we don't want him which dimishes his value and ditto Crouch. Forget all this silliness about Carson being worth anything like 10 million, in these circumstances where they hold the cards he's worth 3 mill if we're lucky. Crouch is worth probably 10-12 on the open market, but once again if he's used in a player exchange his value will probably be considered to be around 8ish. We may end up having to go to nearer 14 mill than 10, or if we persist with the player exchange angle, Crouch + Carson + 4 mill'. At this is he good value? Well it depends really on where and how often he's going to play, and there is also the distinct possibility I would have thought that Crouch will prefer to join Redknapp at Pompey.

Now the where is he going to play question. Well to my mind, if he is going to play either left midfield or left back it's a bit of a no brainer (even though I like Aurelio a lot) as he's better then the Brazilian, and obviously in a different league to anybody we have at left-mid. Added to that we are swapping one player who'll probably never play for us again (Carson) and another player who will hardly ever play for us again regardless of how well he performs seemingly (Crouch). I don't FWIW buy into this theory that we "must have someone pacey" in the wide midfield slot, although a bit of pace on one of the flanks wouldn't go amiss. I suppose we've always got Dirk over the other side (just kidding

, that one was for the thought police). What Barry would bring to left mid is the fact he is a smashing footballer, genuinely left footed and would chip in with a goal or two. He is as I say in a different league to anybody we currently have over there.

The negatives of such a move would be firstly the fact that as a left midfielder, we could probably buy more specialist players such as his team mate Ashley Young (Who I like a lot) or Bentley or whatever. Secondly, he seems like a lovely young fella (in this regard it's no surprise that he is best mates with Gerrard) and our team is already a bit overloaded with lads who probably send their aunties flowers on their birthdays. Thirdly, the fact that nhye can play in a couple of different positions makes the hairs on the back of my neck go up. Are we talking "options" and "possibilities" here or genuine specialist first-team?

But what of the central midfielder theory? well we probably need four to start the season off (particularly if we are going to play with three central midfielders as we are currently) and if we assume that Plessis isn't quite ready yet, we need one more. Given this, I don't think it's necessarily a given that the arrival of Barry means the end of Alonso. If anything, if I were Lucas I would be more nervous about the number of starts i'm going to get than I would be if I were Xabi. Is Barry a better player than Alonso? Not in my opinion no, although he would lend himself more readily to the "half and half" midfield position which came up earlier. I still feel though that Alonso is more than capable of joining up the play, glueing it together inside the final third if he is encouraged so to do. Sabre I know feels that despite the Spaniards qualities, this is asking him to do something for which he isn't built, but I have to disagree on this point. I think he can do it, and what's more if he does I think he remains a better option centrally than Barry.

Conclusion: I think Crouch + Carson + a small fee is fair enough as a fee for Barry, but only if he's going to play regualrly. Unfortunately he does offer "options" and "possibilities" which I am fearful will be fully utilised by around the end of September, but in the main if we don't have to pay too much it is probably a good move. If we are buying him to play as a regualr first team starter, on the left side of midfield I think he would be a very good buy at the price indicated.

by **Kharhaz** » Sat May 03, 2008 12:47 am

I dont agree. I think if crouch was offered alone then o neill would snap his hand off. If carson was also included then you would have to be mad to refuse. Then add a small fee? no chance. They are not regulars for liverpool but in most other teams they would be considered first team regulars. I rate barry a lot but lets not go daft. Offer a good sum (£10m) and if they refuse look for other options. We dont want to pay over the odds for a player who is similar to what we already have.

by **bigmick** » Sat May 03, 2008 1:05 am

Kharhaz wrote:I dont agree.

Well feck off then!!!

Nah just kidding mate. This thing about transfers and valuations is always one which people have huge discrepancies on. Course it makes it harder when some managers occasionally massively overpay for certain players. How many Auxerre fans who knew their football would have had Cisse down as a 14 million pound player for instance? I caused a bit of a conflab myself a few months back when I said I thought Alonso was worth around 13 mill, and World War three almost kicked off when I put a 3 mill' valuation on Kuyt.

I guess most people value by comaprison, that's what we do when we're buying a house or a car or whatever. Also with footballers you've got to add in what the player means to the selling club. Now by all accounts we've opened the bidding at around 10 mill', and we are talking about their captain here. They are not in a position financially where they have to sell, they don't want to sell and he's not at the end of his contract, so I think my 14 mill is going to prove somewhere near TBH. It may even need more than that, and if so I would probably go with your idea of looking elsewhere.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat May 03, 2008 1:25 am

I still believe if we were looking for a left back or even a left midfielder.... there are bigger, better and cheaper out there. We would be getting a CM/DM player who is versatile and can also fill those roles if necessary.

£12Million seemed to be the price that was banded about for him originally, and I think that a deal will either be struck somewhere around that figure or we will look elsewhere. I certainly don't expect a similar situation to the one with Crouch or Pennant when after negotiations we upped the offers by 50%.

What concerns me more is it seems (reading between the lines) that Barry is our main target for the summer. I was hoping and expecting bigger and better than this as our main targets. If we can get him for a couple of "mish mash " players all well and good, but if it affects our budget for what most seem to agree should be our prime focus -creative wide players and a partner for Torres, I would really rather not bother.

by **Kharhaz** » Sat May 03, 2008 1:28 am

bigmick wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:I dont agree.

Well feck off then!!!

Nah just kidding mate. This thing about transfers and valuations is always one which people have huge discrepancies on. Course it makes it harder when some managers occasionally massively overpay for certain players. How many Auxerre fans who knew their football would have had Cisse down as a 14 million pound player for instance? I caused a bit of a conflab myself a few months back when I said I thought Alonso was worth around 13 mill, and World War three almost kicked off when I put a 3 mill' valuation on Kuyt.

I guess most people value by comaprison, that's what we do when we're buying a house or a car or whatever. Also with footballers you've got to add in what the player means to the selling club. Now by all accounts we've opened the bidding at around 10 mill', and we are talking about their captain here. They are not in a position financially where they have to sell, they don't want to sell and he's not at the end of his contract, so I think my 14 mill is going to prove somewhere near TBH. It may even need more than that, and if so I would probably go with your idea of looking elsewhere.

Agree with that. The players we do know each of us add our own evaluation of them. If we didnt already have the kind of player barry is then sure £14 million would be about right. Im of the opinion £10m is about right yes he is there captain but he would be below Gerrard, Mascherano and Alonso at our club.

by **VamosRafa** » Sat May 03, 2008 1:46 am

The only circumstances under which i feel we should barry are if he plays exclusively on the left. As bigmick mentions, he will be a vast improvement on what we have already on that side. If he is employe in CM it will be a waste. Rafa's obsession with CM's makes my blood boil, how can he continue to strengthen our best position when our wingers and full backs are blatantly below the required standard?
Failure to properly strengthen these wide positions with quality will result in another season where we fail to challenge i feel.

In Reina, Carra, Agger, Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard, Torres, we have 7 players i feel are good enough to be part of a title challenging side. Whats the common theme of these players one might wonder? they all perform best in CENTRAL positions.

How bout those young players that Rafa has spent more money on than any wide player (Babel, Skrtel Lucas). These lads could very well break into the first team next year, and guess what, they all prefer to play in the CENTRE of the park.

Unless Rafa has seen into the future, and knows of legislation that will come into effect whereby pitches will be halved in width across Europe, i can't understand why he can't see the need to strengthen our wide positions.

By signing another expensive CM like when common consensus is that we may not have too much to spend this summer, is a worrying indication of how this summers transfer window may go. I'm hoping O'Neil wins the battle of wits and Rafa is forced to rethink his transfer strategy.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat May 03, 2008 2:10 am

The only conclusion I can come to (if Alonso stays) for pursuing Barry, is that Rafa is going to stick with the 4-2-3-1 formation and no longer sees Gerrard as a CM player. Then we would have Alonso and Masch as experienced and seasoned CM players with only Lucas and Plessie as cover. (why sell Sissoko if we are going to spend even more on a replacement, who will be equally unhappy if he doesn't get the games). Barry due to his versatility could be great cover for Masch and Alonso while still getting games at LM.

Personally I hope that Rafa is NOT going to stick with 4-2-3-1 next season, and will shortly announce the signing of a creative second striker, and move Gerrard back into CM.

by **nemolyk** » Sat May 03, 2008 5:02 am

bigmick wrote:Well Barry is obviously a good player, I don't think many people would dispute that. The key issues though are firstly how much will he cost and can we afford him, and secondly where is he going to play and what impact will that have on our existing personel.

Firstly there is the cost issue. Figures such as ten mill are being bandied about, and in truth in the current market he is probably good value at that. Looking at what the Mancs paid for Hargreaves and Carrick, 10 mill for Barry would appear quite cheap as he is probably a similar level of player to those two. My suspicion is though and always has been that MON is not quite as daft as many on here would have you believe, and he is going to drive a harder bargain for his captain. They already have Carson, but they know we don't want him which dimishes his value and ditto Crouch. Forget all this silliness about Carson being worth anything like 10 million, in these circumstances where they hold the cards he's worth 3 mill if we're lucky. Crouch is worth probably 10-12 on the open market, but once again if he's used in a player exchange his value will probably be considered to be around 8ish. We may end up having to go to nearer 14 mill than 10, or if we persist with the player exchange angle, Crouch + Carson + 4 mill'. At this is he good value? Well it depends really on where and how often he's going to play, and there is also the distinct possibility I would have thought that Crouch will prefer to join Redknapp at Pompey.

Now the where is he going to play question. Well to my mind, if he is going to play either left midfield or left back it's a bit of a no brainer (even though I like Aurelio a lot) as he's better then the Brazilian, and obviously in a different league to anybody we have at left-mid. Added to that we are swapping one player who'll probably never play for us again (Carson) and another player who will hardly ever play for us again regardless of how well he performs seemingly (Crouch). I don't FWIW buy into this theory that we "must have someone pacey" in the wide midfield slot, although a bit of pace on one of the flanks wouldn't go amiss. I suppose we've always got Dirk over the other side (just kidding , that one was for the thought police). What Barry would bring to left mid is the fact he is a smashing footballer, genuinely left footed and would chip in with a goal or two. He is as I say in a different league to anybody we currently have over there.

The negatives of such a move would be firstly the fact that as a left midfielder, we could probably buy more specialist players such as his team mate Ashley Young (Who I like a lot) or Bentley or whatever. Secondly, he seems like a lovely young fella (in this regard it's no surprise that he is best mates with Gerrard) and our team is already a bit overloaded with lads who probably send their aunties flowers on their birthdays. Thirdly, the fact that nhye can play in a couple of different positions makes the hairs on the back of my neck go up. Are we talking "options" and "possibilities" here or genuine specialist first-team?

But what of the central midfielder theory? well we probably need four to start the season off (particularly if we are going to play with three central midfielders as we are currently) and if we assume that Plessis isn't quite ready yet, we need one more. Given this, I don't think it's necessarily a given that the arrival of Barry means the end of Alonso. If anything, if I were Lucas I would be more nervous about the number of starts i'm going to get than I would be if I were Xabi. Is Barry a better player than Alonso? Not in my opinion no, although he would lend himself more readily to the "half and half" midfield position which came up earlier. I still feel though that Alonso is more than capable of joining up the play, glueing it together inside the final third if he is encouraged so to do. Sabre I know feels that despite the Spaniards qualities, this is asking him to do something for which he isn't built, but I have to disagree on this point. I think he can do it, and what's more if he does I think he remains a better option centrally than Barry.

Conclusion: I think Crouch + Carson + a small fee is fair enough as a fee for Barry, but only if he's going to play regualrly. Unfortunately he does offer "options" and "possibilities" which I am fearful will be fully utilised by around the end of September, but in the main if we don't have to pay too much it is probably a good move. If we are buying him to play as a regualr first team starter, on the left side of midfield I think he would be a very good buy at the price indicated.

i have the same feeling with you
if i am rafa,i would bid barry for about 8m or 2m+carson
there is some reason on biding for barry
we don not have a perfect winger on the left,rafa wanna replace riise with barry,the Norwegian become go down this season and his techniques is under rafas stander.
unfortunately we have enough mid players,even can describe it surplus.spanish would be selled,so we can put more money on bidding for famous player

by **Toffeehater** » Sat May 03, 2008 7:18 am

s@int wrote:and will shortly announce the signing of a creative second striker, and move Gerrard back into CM.

still banging up on the creative striker thing eh saint

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