Liverpool FC Forum

by **Owzat** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:57 am

crazyhorse wrote:I now see goals from all over the pitch which is different from last year.

From Mascherano? Babel? Kuyt? Degen? Dossena? Barny? (half his goals are penalties)

Not sure how it can be THAT "different from last year", bearing in mind we've added a keeper, two full-backs and possibly a CM who scores penalties. Yeah we've added Keane and N'Gog, but that would be where you expect goals from, not "all over the pitch" as you've stated - unless you mean Keane, N'Gog and Torres scoring from the left touchline, right touchline and halfway line

by **Owzat** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:15 am

s@int wrote:I really thought we would win the title last season. This season I think we will go close (challenge) but not close enough. I think our defense looks weaker than last season, our midfield slightly stronger, and with Keane up front with Torres, goals shouldn't be a major problem.

The problem I think we will have this season is we have no plan "B". If we are struggling we can change the players, change the formation, but not the way we play. No player that is outstanding in the air, no player to bring on that has the ability to beat players for fun and really no real game breakers on the bench. Babel may be an option, but all he really offers is pace and we already have that with Torres. We have no one who can add width in the way the other top clubs have, no Crouch to pump desperate balls up to, and no real creativity waiting to be unleashed at the right moment.

Close but no cigar......unless we get a top class winger in the January sales maybe.

2nd 5 points behind

Rafa doesn't seem to do much with his subs, it was almost predictable at times - winger on for winger, take off a striker to rest him and maybe another midfielder.

We have Keane, in theory that adds goals but only if we have the supply. Now in theory (again), that will be coming from the full-backs, the Keane-Torres partnership and GB if he signs since nothing much else will be different. So will Keane, the full-backs and GB make the difference? We definitely need more goals, too many draws and when we lose it is mostly to nil.

We need more goals from midfield, from Mascherano, Kuyt, Benayoun, GB if he comes, Kuyt etc That for me was why we didn't challenge, a lack of goals from everyone except Torres and Gerrard. Benayoun chipped in a couple of hat-tricks, unfortunately they were in the 8-0 drubbing of Besiktas and 5-2 demolition of H & W, hardly goals when needed most. The mancs get goals from all over the pitch, our midfield wants a good kick up the rear for not scoring enough - or even getting in positions often enough. For that reason alone I'd sell Pennant, he doesn't get in positions to score often enough, his crossing ain't good enough and I can't see him playing a major part in winning anything.

As for the defence, on paper I see little difference. How the new FBs settle in is the main worry, but then Riise, Aurelio and a fading Finnan were hardly setting the bar high.

I like the mention of plan B, I think our plan A is our plan B and there is no plan A. We were lacking players to make the difference on the bench, I think we still will be this season. Hoofing the ball to Crouch isn't a tactic, it's a good way to give the ball back to the opposition as that's what happens around half the time. When you're in possession you should look to keep it, not play a low percentage ball based on some half-baked target man theory. Do the best sides in the world hoof the ball to a target man? No. Do the mancs and Brazil etc do it? No. They have players all over the park comfortable on the ball, we've a squad cost around £150m and you're telling me they can't pass or retain possession? And don't forget that £150m includes Carragher and Gerrard who cost nothing, but would probably boost that £150m to nearer £200m if they were given estimated values

I'm optimistic we'll finish second, I can't see this squad being much closer to the mancs. A lot depends on goals and not drawing so many, and how right we get those two aspects.

by **GYBS** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:44 am

Third this year but closer to the top two

by **taff** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:01 pm

Winning the PL
Even if Im deluded I cant vote for any other outcome, its what keeps us fans going

by **maguskwt** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:13 pm

I have to say that I'm very much a pro-rafa on this forum... but even I must admit that, now that we've already signed keane, and later if we manage to sign Barry, and we don't challenge for the title this season then rafa has little to no excuse. This is because both Robbie Keane and Garreth Barry can be considered as rafa's primary targets.. even if they might not be his very first choices they're by far two of his top choices... otherwise why would we be paying close to 40 millions for the duo.

And these two major signings IMO show rafa's change in direction and/or strategy regarding the team's player set up. Until now rafa has been more comfortable buying overseas players, mostly from the la liga, obviously because he's more familiar with the talent there. But after spending 4 years in the PL, he's starting to realise that some foreign players even though he rates them highly are just not suitable for the EPL. The major lessons he had are probably with players like Morientes, Garcia, Sissoko, and now he seems to think that Barry is more suitable for the PL than Xabi Alonso. So the pursuit of both Barry and Keane clearly shows that now he's trying to go for players who are more adapted to the EPL and that he wants instantaneous results. This is probably because he's also aware that his time as a LFC manager is coming to an end if he doesn't deliver in a couple of seasons.

Personally I would offload Xabi Alonso if we managed to sign Barry. If we don't need the money, sign a quality winger. We already have so much cover in the CM position: Masch, Gerrard, Barry, Lucas, Plessi, 5 players competing for 2-3 positions is more than enough. This is also because I don't believe in playing Barry as a left winger or Gerrard as a right winger like some have suggested. Maybe one of them playing as a winger is ok but not both of them. Clearly, if one has decided that Barry is more suitable than Alonso for the PL, then Alonso has become surplus to requirements.

As for the coming season I think we should be challenging for the title, if we're fortunate EPL champions, if we're unfortunate third place but challenging the top two all the way. Most likely i think that we'll be runners up. Like I said if we manage to sign Barry, no more excuses for the underperformances in the league Rafa and I sure hope you sort out your formation if we do have both xabi and barry...

by **destro** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:58 pm

Winners other wise there is nothing to look forward to

by **Toffeehater** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:23 pm

bigmick wrote:\. I think when push comes to shove, we'll be no more than Five points off the winners, and if you put a gun to my head I'll say three points off the top.

i think we will be second although i've voted champions . I expect manu to falter seeing as ronaldo does not want to play for their club and is simply not interested to at the moment and he got majority of their goals last season . I don't think they can replace those goals rather easily , i think chelsea would be the champions with us 3 to 5 points behind as well .

by **Rush Job** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:41 pm

If we sign Barry i'd expect us to put up a good challenge for the prem, but fk that i'll say Winners. For a few months before Christmas we only had Carra and Sami at the back witch IMHO cost us points because we had to play a deep back line instead of forcing the play into the oppos half, it was clear to see the difference against Chelsea in the CL, we were on top forcing the play in their half then Skrtel went off and we could no longer keep the high line, so i think our defence will be stronger now.

by **SupitsJonF** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:16 pm

Our record against the top 3 last year wasn't poor at all. Maybe in recent years, but last year we faired well except for the Man U results.

The 3-0, still very controversial, but we were a man down and until that red card the game was a lot closer then 3-0.

Chelsea:

H: 1-1 (BS pen)
A: 0-0

Manchester United:
(It's not our poor record against the big 3, its the poor record against Man U. According to last years results)
H:0-1
A: 0-3

Arsenal:

H:1-1
A:1-1

NOW IM NOT SAYING THESE RESULTS ARE GOOD, but they aren't that bad. If these are the only teams we draw, we not only prevent them from gaining 3 points but we don't go away empty handed. Sure, the home draws against these teams could be wins, but the away results are hardly a bad deal.

Except Manchester, thats the biggest problem. I'd be happy to go from 0 to 2 points with them.

by **66-1112520797** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:09 am

I really thought we would win the title last season. This season I think we will go close (challenge) but not close enough. I think our defense looks weaker than last season, our midfield slightly stronger, and with Keane up front with Torres, goals shouldn't be a major problem.

The problem I think we will have this season is we have no plan "B". If we are struggling we can change the players, change the formation, but not the way we play. No player that is outstanding in the air, no player to bring on that has the ability to beat players for fun and really no real game breakers on the bench. Babel may be an option, but all he really offers is pace and we already have that with Torres. We have no one who can add width in the way the other top clubs have, no Crouch to pump desperate balls up to, and no real creativity waiting to be unleashed at the right moment.

Saint, on that notion then I'm going for 5th then.

You pessimistic old bu/gger you.

by **woof woof !** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:19 am

taff wrote:Winning the PL
Even if Im deluded I cant vote for any other outcome, its what keeps us fans going

Hope there's a spare branch in your tree Taff, I'm with you mate, can't write off the belief that we will win it.

(Of course I might feel different come Xmas.

)

by **Number 9** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:23 am

I think we will be a lot closer this season and will hopefully be up there fighting for the League title at the end!
If we cant believe this what is the point in taking part?
We can be assured that the staff and players will believe that they can challenge..otherwise what is the point?We are not in the EPL just to make up the numbers and to fill the 4th C/L every season.
The team is good enough to beat anyone now,its high time the manager and the players got a bit of consistency together and started playing to their potential.
I can sense we want it bad this season,the problem is there are 3 other teams who want it as much.Some players last year lacked effort and seemed happy to walk off after 90 mins with a draw,we cant settle for that anymore.Its not good enough.
I think we will be in the top 3,my heart says first but my head says third!I dont think third will be enough to keep Rafa his job though,so i think he will give everything to win it this year...whether we have enough to do it remains to be seen!

by **Owzat** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:50 am

Yup, let's believe we can win it like we do every season, and look where that's got us................... Of course I haven't asked where you want us to finish, or where you hope we'll finish, but "where will we finish".

by **woof woof !** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:17 am

Owzat wrote:Yup, let's believe we can win it like we do every season, and look where that's got us................... Of course I haven't asked where you want us to finish, or where you hope we'll finish, but "where will we finish".

Ok, if you insist, lets play Mystic Meg. First, by two points. :nod

by **club_Levis** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:18 am

Owzat wrote:Yup, let's believe we can win it like we do every season, and look where that's got us................... Of course I haven't asked where you want us to finish, or where you hope we'll finish, but "where will we finish".

It could be closer than the past seasons but Man u and chelsea are way too strong. So I went for third.

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Money where yer mouth is time - Where will liverpool finish this season?

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