Liverpool FC Forum

by **Fo Dne** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:25 pm

Obviously at the moment we still have weak links in the side.

I feel upfront, finally we have two strikers who can not only work as a partnership and compliment each others game but are both excellent players and goalscorers. Its a long time since I've had confidence that we have two strikers with the quality to help us win games, I finally feel we have that now and with Kuyt as backup I think we've got a good set of forward players.

In terms of midfield though we still seem top heavy in cental midfield. With Gerrard, Alonso and Mascherano. Now for me, the ideal would be Gerrard back on the right side with Xabi and Mascherano in the middle, Barry signed to play on the left. The thing is, if we sign Barry, I can see him playing centrally at the expense of Xabi, which i think is silly as you would have to have worse players on the pitch to make that system work.

For me though, the real worry is the defence, not a worry we've had for a while. Finnan lacked a bit of form last season, he wasn't at his best, to be fair he wasn't poor either, just not at his usual high standards. Arbeloa isn't good enough either for me, he's a decent squad player at best, but no more. Then theres Degen, the less said the better. On the left, Dossena hasn't convinced me at all, I'm hoping he'll improve as he settles which is a distinct possiblity so on that front we'll cut him some slack, Aurelio is decent back up on that side. But in the centre I feel we're lacking alot.

Hyypia is no longer what he was but for me is still equal to the other centre halfs which shows our weakness in my opinion. I think in terms or arial ability we are a very average side with no-one from the "first eleven" being dominant in the air which is something that worries me greatly.

Our goalkeepers solid.

I think with three top additions we could become a truely outstanding side though.Personally I'd like to see a right back, a top centre half and a left winger. If money was no object I'd look to sign Woodgate (now his injury problems appear to be behind him, Richards (who would add pace, power and arial ability to the defence and Robben who if he could stay fit would provide class down the wing.

Torres
Keane
Robben Mascherano Alonso Gerrard
Dossena Woodgate Carragher Richards
Reina

That would work for me...

by **Simari** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:34 pm

We are fine in central defense. Carra with Skrtel / Agger and Hyppia as backup. Skrtel and Agger are young and will gain experience working with Hyppia and Carra. We don't need Woodgate.

Arbeloa is fine out right. It's too early to judge Dossena on the left yet, but he did make a great goal-saving tackle against Gers yesterday! (ok, so that might be the only highlight of his short LFC career so far

)

We are stronger defensively that we were - given that Riise is no longer in the equation.

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:37 pm

We dont need injury prone players.

Thats a waste of time I'd rather Agger than Woodgate and Silva than Robben.

And Richards ? I thought you wanted to keep it realistic ? I'd have him in a heartbeat though.

by **banana** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:43 pm

I understand your concern about defensive and attacking set pieces.

We are one of the weaker sides in the premiership in the air. No real threath and a real danger on defensive set pieces.

Apart from being weak in the air our centre backs are very strong. I rate Carra and Skrtl as first choice with Agger as back up.

Our fullbacks is better than last year. Dossena is better than Riise and Arbeloa has improved greatly. He is better than Finnan although Degen hasn't convinced me yet.

I would also like to see Gerrard back on right midfield if Alonso stays. If not I would like to se Benayoun getting picked Ahead of Kuyt.

Left midfield is screaming for a new signing. Barry could work but I agree with you. Robben is a class act and should be considered if available. I am hoping for a breakthrough this year for Babel. I do however think he could make his break as a striker, not as a winger.

Strikers. Well I'm worried. Torres is it. But he can't play 50 + games. And what if he is injured. Bring on Kuyt? If Torres is injured we are no longer a title contender. Ngog has talent. Keane is average. Voronin is average. Ideally wa need a new striker. But I think the we have no money.

by **Igor Zidane** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:04 pm

I'm happy with our centre halves stu , Carra skrtle agger and sami is a pretty strong quartet imo . The fullbacks that we've bought worry me abit . Agreed about Deggen , not sure about dossena and his defensive abilities. I think Arbeloa is well capable at right back ,so he would be my first choice. Aurelio if fit is good enough at left back (not a weak link imo ).

Forwards and midfield i'm happy with Barry and Gerrard on both flanks ,but given license to come inside when attacking ,covered by xabi and mascherano. Keane and Torres do there talking on the pitch ,so i'm happy with them .

Now the problem for me is width , i'm not convinced the fullbacks will provide enough of it to be honest and Gerrard and barry do like to cut inside . Robben is a good shout if staying fit (although i think he's a diving little sh!itehawk)he is and excellent left winger and a goal threat . To play him though you would have to Sacrifice a midfielder which would either be Xabi or Barry (probably Xabi if i'm honest).

So to sum up , a right back that's better than Arbeloa and a left winger is what we need.

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:10 pm

I honestly don't see a problem with our CB's. Agger hasn't looked at his best in pre-season, but he missed virtually all last season so it's bound to take him a while to get back to his best.

I half expected Carra to be moved out to fullback, with Skrtel and Agger at CB this season, but I don't think that is now going to happen......... or at least not just yet. So I agree we have defensive problems, its just I see the problems as being the fullbacks.... NOT THE CB'S.

Degen has looked weak and more of a headless chicken than an international footballer so far, Arbeloa has NEVER looked the answer for me, while Finnan will presumably be gone if Barry comes.

Aurelio again to me looks neither fish nor fowl, he is not good enough defensively or going forward, but is a decent all round player. The number of times we have seen him struggle defensively only for Rafa to bring Riise on to help him out shows that. The problem now being we have no Riise.

Dossena to be fair needs more time, he doesn't look completely out of his depth like Degen did ,but his habit of strolling back to his position may prove a problem especially in the fast pace of the prem.

Insua needs time and patience, something I doubt will be given him this season.

In fact the only way I see Degen and Dossena playing a big part in our season as attacking options, is if we go 3 at the back with Carra, Skrtel and Agger, and I don't think there is a chance in hell of that happening unless we are REALLY desperate.

In midfield I have only one real worry, we already have 3 top quality players and the addition of Barry will only add to our strength, but for me, maybe the balance of the midfield isn't quite right, and a lack of genuine creativity in the final third may cost us. In fact I would argue that the 2006 midfield ( Gerrard Sissoko Alonso Kewell )while maybe not as strong defensively as the present one was much better balanced and possibly superior to this one.

I think Robben is a cracking player, a cheating diving b@stard, but a cracking player. I really doubt if he would ever come back to the Prem though.

I still think that at the end of the day our season will be decided by 3 players. Gerrard , Keane and Torres.

Gerrard - where is he going to "fit in" this season?
Keane - can he play the creative second striker role or will he just play striker?
Torres - will he be able to repeat last years goals tally with Keane alongside him, rather than Gerrard behind him?

The weakest link for me is the lack of creativity, maybe Keane can supply it, but a top quality winger would have made things a little easier too.

edit
I missed your post Igor, or I would have saved myself a lot of time. Spot on mate.

by **woof woof !** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:30 pm

We've been crying out for a top winger/wide player for years and years and years. Beginning to wonder if we'll ever see one in Rafa's team. Whilst he's improved virtually all departments within the squad the purchase of a real quality wide player has been continually ignored.

by **metalhead** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:45 pm

I can understand stu for saying we need a center half to dominate in the air. Carra, Agger and Skrtel didn't prove much they can cut it in the air.

I'll see how Dossenna fairs in the premiership, he can be a flop or can be an excellent player for us, he just needs to build his confidence and use his abilities right (IF he has excellent ones).

I still think we need a right back, like s@int and stu, Arbeloa is a solid full back but he isn't the answer to our right back position, and degen, from what I've seen in friendlies definitely not the answer!

by **Fo Dne** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:28 pm

Simari wrote:We are fine in central defense. Carra with Skrtel / Agger and Hyppia as backup. Skrtel and Agger are young and will gain experience working with Hyppia and Carra. We don't need Woodgate.Arbeloa is fine out right. It's too early to judge Dossena on the left yet, but he did make a great goal-saving tackle against Gers yesterday! (ok, so that might be the only highlight of his short LFC career so far )We are stronger defensively that we were - given that Riise is no longer in the equation.

Well then we've cracked it and we'll win the league... :no

The fact is, not one of our centre halfs are better than Vidic, Ferdinand, Toure, Gallas, Carvalho or even Terry in terms of authority.

I find it frustrating everyones sitting here saying we're fine, we aren't. If we had those players (for example) There are others out there am sure, but if we had those, we'd have 5 or 6 players who'd get in EVERY team, instead we've still only got two or three...

None of our centre halves are arially dominant anymore, Hyypia is the best but he's not what he was and seems to have lost a little bit of spring, even so he can't go on forever.We have no REAL threat from set peices in the air and defensively it will cost us goals again.

The injury prone remarks towards Woodgate aswell are getting tiresome, he's played 2 seasons on the trot now and played most games, he's proving he's over it. He's also a lot better than what we have and its typical of the rose tinted brigade ( and the can't be a top player not at a top club, "lot") to think otherwise.

In terms of positioning, passing, reading the game, pace, marking and general alround quality he's a completely different class to Agger. Infact, you'll probably find he's alot of Agger and Hyypia combined.

In terms of getting Micah Richards I really do think we should stretch our finances and go for him, if not this year then definately next as he's the sort of player we could do with. He would bring arial dominance and athletesism to the side and he's a decent football aswell. We can't let him go to another side in the premier league under any circumstances.

by **Sabre** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:42 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:So to sum up , a right back that's better than Arbeloa and a left winger is what we need.

I agree most of Igor's post.

I wouldn't mind though to have a reliable RW aswell. I'm a bit concerned aswell that we've lost a international striker (Crouch) and we haven't brought another striker, Keane seems to be a partner to play behind Torres, but not a striker, according to Toshack (who rates Keane highly apparently).

Yes Pacheco has shown some interesting details but still he's not proven premiership striker like Crouch. Many strikers similar to him appear around here, he's like a "John Smith" for the English. We see a lot of small and skillful strikers appear around here, we see them making even some nice goals in primera, but later never quite stablish themselves in primera. In other words, too soon to throw a prediction about Pacheco. I hope he'll have minutes along the season.

I'll just cross fingers and hope Torres doesn't get injured in all the season, and I hope he'll be rested as little as possible.

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:16 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
Simari wrote:We are fine in central defense. Carra with Skrtel / Agger and Hyppia as backup. Skrtel and Agger are young and will gain experience working with Hyppia and Carra. We don't need Woodgate.Arbeloa is fine out right. It's too early to judge Dossena on the left yet, but he did make a great goal-saving tackle against Gers yesterday! (ok, so that might be the only highlight of his short LFC career so far )We are stronger defensively that we were - given that Riise is no longer in the equation.

Well then we've cracked it and we'll win the league...

The fact is, not one of our centre halfs are better than Vidic, Ferdinand, Toure, Gallas, Carvalho or even Terry in terms of authority.

I find it frustrating everyones sitting here saying we're fine, we aren't. If we had those players (for example) There are others out there am sure, but if we had those, we'd have 5 or 6 players who'd get in EVERY team, instead we've still only got two or three...

None of our centre halves are arially dominant anymore, Hyypia is the best but he's not what he was and seems to have lost a little bit of spring, even so he can't go on forever.We have no REAL threat from set peices in the air and defensively it will cost us goals again.

The injury prone remarks towards Woodgate aswell are getting tiresome, he's played 2 seasons on the trot now and played most games, he's proving he's over it. He's also a lot better than what we have and its typical of the rose tinted brigade ( and the can't be a top player not at a top club, "lot") to think otherwise.

In terms of positioning, passing, reading the game, pace, marking and general alround quality he's a completely different class to Agger. Infact, you'll probably find he's alot of Agger and Hyypia combined.

In terms of getting Micah Richards I really do think we should stretch our finances and go for him, if not this year then definately next as he's the sort of player we could do with. He would bring arial dominance and athletesism to the side and he's a decent football aswell. We can't let him go to another side in the premier league under any circumstances.

I would agree Stu that there are better CB'S than we have, the thing is though, I think we have other much bigger weaknesses elsewhere that must be addressed first. Cb for me is not a priority at the moment, good fullbacks and a top option out wide are.

I am still confused/undecided about what formation we will play and what role some of our key players will be playing. I just hope Rafa knows!

I agree that we arn't going to win everything in the air this season, but the main thing is just to prevent clean headers and win the second ball, and hopefully Reina will get an understanding with our defense and help them out more as well.

I think Richards would be a great signing, as would Ramos but in truth I don't think we have a chance of signing either.

by **LFC2007** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:21 pm

I agree with most of the opening post.

Though it would seem that signing a winger isn't on the agenda and that our FBs will be providing most of our width. I haven't seen enough of Dossena just yet but he looks competent on the ball and in going forward, although he seems to need to improve his fitness. Defensively, he's looked naïve thus far, but it's early days. Degen I have less hope for.

So, if Dossena ends up being the solution for the left, we're still likely to have a problem on the right. Arbeloa is decent, but he's not brilliant going forward, and Finnan isn't what he was. He's never had great pace but I think he's lost a bit, and he made a few more errors last season than he did at his best. So, we look distinctly average at RB, but this isn't a major problem, IMO.

At CB, Stu's bang on that we don't have the aerial dominance of the other three teams we intend to rival, we do though have two brilliant defenders, one who is fairly solid in the air (Carra), and the other who is pretty good (Agger). Hyypia is excellent in the air but he isn't what he used to be as a defender, and I don't see him playing all that often. Our defensive record in past seasons with the same combinations has been good enough for us to challenge, so I don't see this as a problem, so long as we focus and eradicate the errors we made last season.

Up front we're just about sorted, barring long-term injuries to either Keane or Torres.

In the centre of midfield, we're well covered.

On the flanks, it's still very much questionable.

If we intend to go with a 4-4-2, I think we should be just about OK with Barry on the left and Gerrard on the right - so long as Dossena is the solution for a lack of width on the left and Xabi stays, but it really depends on which formation we intend to use - for most of the time anyway.

Given that Rafa will intend to use Babel and Kuyt at some stage for a fair few games, and perhaps one of Benayoun/Pennant (at least one will be sold I feel), I am left wondering where that leaves us. I think it lends itself to greater options and possiblities - which, without strengthening, probably won't be enough. I just don't know whether we can bring in Barry, sell a few of the fringe players and still get in a RW/LW, or both, at the right level of quality.

At present anyway, there isn't a discernable formation which I can see being adhered to, esp considering Babel and Kuyt, who will stay, and who will play, at some point.

I'd go with a 4-4-2 generally speaking, and would go for a creative wide player as opposed to Barry, but what I would do and what Rafa will do, could be very different.

by **Fowler_E7** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:26 pm

Personally i feel the weakest areas of the team are at right back and left wing, were i think we lack quality quite badly. If i was Rafa id pull out of the Barry deal and sign some quality in those positions, i like Miguel the Valencia right back, quality player and could be bought fairly cheapy, as Valenica have financial problems.

by **Effes** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:45 pm

I'M not convinced Skrtel is not going to be good enough in the air.

Besides his first full game (his bottle went) he seemed to settle in OK and towards the end of the season
was finding some form. I think it's premature to make a judgement on him.

On Finnan, if Rafa hadn't dropped him last season I doubt people would be saying he wasn't good enough anymore.
I'll be concerned if he's used in the Barry transfer.

As everyone has been saying, it would have been better to get a winger rather than Keane.

I agree with S@int - it's formation that Rafa is gonna use that concerns me, 4-2-3-1 worked great last season.

I agree with Stu about the midfield, - Barry - Xabi - Mash - Gerrard
I much prefer the best 11 to play and if we go 4-4-2 we must play that midfield - we cant
have Kuyt on the right wing.

by **LFC2007** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:59 pm

On Richards, he's a player who will at some stage move to one of the top four, it's virtually guaranteed I feel. He's top quality and I'd have him any day, but I reckon the cost would be near £20m, and that - at least for the present - rules him out as a potential signing.

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