Liverpool FC Forum

by **dosserboy** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:36 pm

s@int wrote:I will make my thoughts clearer

1/ Keane is a good player but not my first choice

2/ Keane will not score 20 league goals this season and you can quote me on that

3/ Keane is not a player that makes lots of assists for his strike partner.

4/ Keane is better than Voronin and Kuyt

5/ I think we paid over the odds

6/ I think he will be a success

7/ I think he will play best in a 4-4-2 with Torres

8/ I would have preferred Aguero but he would have cost even sillier money and would have to adapt to the prem

9/ Keane ticks all the right boxes as a player

10/ I can always get someone else to tarmac my drive

What fence are you sitting on then! ..you have all roads covered my son!!! you are like the weather men/women, Tomorrow will be cloudy with some sunshine comming in from the west, expect some rain later in the afternoon but the evening will be bright, it will be warm in the morning but there's a fifty fifty chance of snow by midday!!! ..... Robbie is a Liverpool fan and a Liverpool player, come on Robbie!!!!!

by **LFC2007** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:39 pm

I've actually now come to a slightly different view with regards next season having remembered a couple of things. The different view is this: Should we sign Barry and that ends up being it for the summer (fair likelihood), I actually think we could give the league a real shot.

Identifiably, last season, our goal distribution demonstrated ineffiency - we had 13 draws, so despite scoring (2) more than Chelsea we ended 9 points apart - i.e. we didn't make the goals count for points. So, by definition, we scored enough in order to give us a chance of being considered challengers, but bear in mind - Chelsea had more wins by 1-0 (9) than anyone else (and by far) - and the likelihood of that happening again is very slim. More often than not, teams have to score between 75 and 80 goals in order to either; i) win the title, or ii) Put in a very striong challenge for it. So having scored 67 goals, we realistically need to up that by 5 goals. If we can't up this total, then we effectively need to have the best defence in the Premiership in order to win/challenge strongly, either that or we need to have a rogue season of winning by small margins, like Chelsea did last season, and I think that's unlikely.

This is where Keane fits in: Our goals supremacy last season was more than good enough at home (to challenge), yet away from home, it was only marginally better than Aston Villa's. We didn't score anywhere near enough away from home, as we lacked potency and threat. At home, this was only the case on a couple of occasions, where (key) dropped points were more down to of lack of concentration. Well, according to a stat which I recall, Keane is a rare breed in that he scores as many of his goals away from home as at home. It was a Martin Jol article which emphasised this point - and I think it's very relevant to our needs for the coming season.

Jol:

But the statistic which is even more revealing involves his number of goals away from home. It’s about 50%, and it’s a very rare footballer who performs as well in hostile stadiums as on his own ground. In my time as Spurs manager, Dimitar Berbatov didn’t come close to 50%. Robbie’s consistency is a result of his coolness and character.

To sum up; Not only could he help increase our overall number scored, if not by much, then more importantly - he could help us become more efficient, i.e. make goals count for more points, particularly away from home, where Torres didn't make much of an impact - though I think that will change next season too, and partly because of Keane.

Relating this to our transfer activity in general, well, I think Barry would contribute with 6 or 7 goals if he played in the centre more often than not. Overall, provided we iron out the defensive errors which marred last season, and get back to being solid, I think we have just about enough to challenge.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:43 pm

What more do you need to know? I think he is a good Prem player but not top quality. I don't think he will score 20 goals but will still be a success, and that we got raped over the fee. I would have preferred any one of my first choices, but its not my money so I have to go with the flow. I don't think it will snow in England tomorrow and you can quote me on that

by **LFC2007** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:43 pm

bigmick wrote:The one recent transfer which would make him look dear is Nicolas Anelka going to Chelsea for 15 million. Were they to buy him now as opposed to six months ago, they'd need to be in the twenties I should have thought based on what's gone on since.

He was decent for Chelsea - nothing spectacular. He was exceptionally sh!t in the Euro's and is 29 years old. Note to thought police - this doesn't mean I'm saying he's a sh!t player.

by **Number 9** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:45 pm

s@int wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
s@int wrote:It proves nothing mate, just backs my opinion that Keane is not as much a creative second striker as people seem to think, and is more a frontline striker that runs from deep like Bellamy.

That doesn't mean he can't play that role ........ just that he hasn't done regularly at Spurs or Leeds. At Coventry he did but he was very young then.

As a creative second striker you should be looking at 10/15 goals a season and around 10/15 assists, obviously more or less depending on ability etc etc. Which is where my won't score 20 league goals comes from, whether he can up his assists towards the 10/15 mark is the big question........ if Rafa even plays him in that role of course.

Play him as a frontline striker with Torres and he may get 20 goals but in all likelyhood only his usual 3 or 4 assists, which would obviously have a detrimental effect on Torres and the number of goals he would score.

As far as actual assists goes ..... no doubt he had a hand in quite a few more (as all players do) but as a front player, obviously he is more likely to make the final pass, touch or flick on than say a CB OR EVEN A MIDFIELDER WOULD.

Saint who had 10/15 assists in the prem last year??

As for Keane making a lot of assists.......... Keane made 10 assists in the last 3 seasons, just over 3 per season, Rooney made 30 in the last three seasons or 10 per season by comparison.

Rooney did if you read my previous post 10 last season, 11 the year before , and 9 two years ago.

Fabrigas got 17 last season for Arsenal as well mate.

And this proves anything why?
What about the assistee's that assisted the assistors?
Who assisted them?
This is a fuc'king disgrace.
I can understand you are old school and all that..The bottom line is LFC have signed Robbie Keane and stats are a load of balls.They can be taken in any form and self manipulated to suit any posters point....its a good day for LFC and Keane.
You and others choose to dampen it because thats what you do and are a pack of whinging kunts.

If LFC signed KaKa you would be complaining about something else,it may be Rafas sisters effect on the deal or the fact Kaka has never played in England,maybe the fact that Rafas wife knows kaKas ma...but i can be rest assured that he would play well!
On the same token I will put my neck on the line and say that Keane will play well for LFC and will be WELL WORTH THE MONEY we paid for him!

by **dosserboy** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:52 pm

s@int wrote:What more do you need to know? I think he is a good Prem player but not top quality. I don't think he will score 20 goals but will still be a success, and that we got raped over the fee. I would have preferred any one of my first choices, but its not my money so I have to go with the flow. I don't think it will snow in England tomorrow and you can quote me on that

In England you never know Saint, that's a bold statement!!! lol.....Robbie Keane scoring 20 plus more chance!!!!!!...What I do like though is Robbie say's the right things.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:54 pm

Number 9 wrote:
s@int wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
s@int wrote:It proves nothing mate, just backs my opinion that Keane is not as much a creative second striker as people seem to think, and is more a frontline striker that runs from deep like Bellamy.

That doesn't mean he can't play that role ........ just that he hasn't done regularly at Spurs or Leeds. At Coventry he did but he was very young then.

As a creative second striker you should be looking at 10/15 goals a season and around 10/15 assists, obviously more or less depending on ability etc etc. Which is where my won't score 20 league goals comes from, whether he can up his assists towards the 10/15 mark is the big question........ if Rafa even plays him in that role of course.

Play him as a frontline striker with Torres and he may get 20 goals but in all likelyhood only his usual 3 or 4 assists, which would obviously have a detrimental effect on Torres and the number of goals he would score.

As far as actual assists goes ..... no doubt he had a hand in quite a few more (as all players do) but as a front player, obviously he is more likely to make the final pass, touch or flick on than say a CB OR EVEN A MIDFIELDER WOULD.

Saint who had 10/15 assists in the prem last year??

As for Keane making a lot of assists.......... Keane made 10 assists in the last 3 seasons, just over 3 per season, Rooney made 30 in the last three seasons or 10 per season by comparison.

Rooney did if you read my previous post 10 last season, 11 the year before , and 9 two years ago.

Fabrigas got 17 last season for Arsenal as well mate.

And this proves anything why?
What about the assistee's that assisted the assistors?
Who assisted them?
This is a fuc'king disgrace.
I can understand you are old school and all that..The bottom line is LFC have signed Robbie Keane and stats are a load of balls.They can be taken in any form and self manipulated to suit any posters point....its a good day for LFC and Keane.
You and others choose to dampen it because thats what you do and are a pack of whinging kunts.

If LFC signed KaKa you would be complaining about something else,it may be Rafas sisters effect on the deal or the fact Kaka has never played in England,maybe the fact that Rafas wife knows kaKas ma...but i can be rest assured that he would play well!
On the same token I will put my neck on the line and say that Keane will play well for LFC and will be WELL WORTH THE MONEY we paid for him!

It proves fk all, its MY FKN OPINION which I backed with a few stat. YOU asked the question and I answered you, now just cos you don't like the fkn answer you start having a go!

As I said he's not my first choice, maybe cos he's fkn Irish that means you think the sun shines out of his ar$e, I don't.

I think he his a good prem player, nothing more nothing less, who will hopefully help us make a challenge for the league.

If you want to make him into some sort of a irish god, wait till he's played a few games for us first.

by **europian-kings** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:03 pm

got his name on back of my shirt today

the guy who did it was like keane??? he plays for spurs don;t he? :laugh:

by **LegBarnes** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:25 pm

s@int wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
s@int wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
s@int wrote:It proves nothing mate, just backs my opinion that Keane is not as much a creative second striker as people seem to think, and is more a frontline striker that runs from deep like Bellamy.

That doesn't mean he can't play that role ........ just that he hasn't done regularly at Spurs or Leeds. At Coventry he did but he was very young then.

As a creative second striker you should be looking at 10/15 goals a season and around 10/15 assists, obviously more or less depending on ability etc etc. Which is where my won't score 20 league goals comes from, whether he can up his assists towards the 10/15 mark is the big question........ if Rafa even plays him in that role of course.

Play him as a frontline striker with Torres and he may get 20 goals but in all likelyhood only his usual 3 or 4 assists, which would obviously have a detrimental effect on Torres and the number of goals he would score.

As far as actual assists goes ..... no doubt he had a hand in quite a few more (as all players do) but as a front player, obviously he is more likely to make the final pass, touch or flick on than say a CB OR EVEN A MIDFIELDER WOULD.

Saint who had 10/15 assists in the prem last year??

As for Keane making a lot of assists.......... Keane made 10 assists in the last 3 seasons, just over 3 per season, Rooney made 30 in the last three seasons or 10 per season by comparison.

Rooney did if you read my previous post 10 last season, 11 the year before , and 9 two years ago.

Fabrigas got 17 last season for Arsenal as well mate.

And this proves anything why?
What about the assistee's that assisted the assistors?
Who assisted them?
This is a fuc'king disgrace.
I can understand you are old school and all that..The bottom line is LFC have signed Robbie Keane and stats are a load of balls.They can be taken in any form and self manipulated to suit any posters point....its a good day for LFC and Keane.
You and others choose to dampen it because thats what you do and are a pack of whinging kunts.

If LFC signed KaKa you would be complaining about something else,it may be Rafas sisters effect on the deal or the fact Kaka has never played in England,maybe the fact that Rafas wife knows kaKas ma...but i can be rest assured that he would play well!
On the same token I will put my neck on the line and say that Keane will play well for LFC and will be WELL WORTH THE MONEY we paid for him!

It proves fk all, its MY FKN OPINION which I backed with a few stat. YOU asked the question and I answered you, now just cos you don't like the fkn answer you start having a go!

As I said he's not my first choice, maybe cos he's fkn Irish that means you think the sun shines out of his ar$e, I don't.

I think he his a good prem player, nothing more nothing less, who will hopefully help us make a challenge for the league.

If you want to make him into some sort of a irish god, wait till he's played a few games for us first.

Well i dont think he be a flop saint he might no reach hights of demi god tho

But he might come close top prem scorer for me this season i think.

Think with players like alonso , gerrard , torres , bab's around him he be scoring a fair few more. :buttrock

by **Number 9** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:28 pm

s@int wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
s@int wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
s@int wrote:It proves nothing mate, just backs my opinion that Keane is not as much a creative second striker as people seem to think, and is more a frontline striker that runs from deep like Bellamy.

That doesn't mean he can't play that role ........ just that he hasn't done regularly at Spurs or Leeds. At Coventry he did but he was very young then.

As a creative second striker you should be looking at 10/15 goals a season and around 10/15 assists, obviously more or less depending on ability etc etc. Which is where my won't score 20 league goals comes from, whether he can up his assists towards the 10/15 mark is the big question........ if Rafa even plays him in that role of course.

Play him as a frontline striker with Torres and he may get 20 goals but in all likelyhood only his usual 3 or 4 assists, which would obviously have a detrimental effect on Torres and the number of goals he would score.

As far as actual assists goes ..... no doubt he had a hand in quite a few more (as all players do) but as a front player, obviously he is more likely to make the final pass, touch or flick on than say a CB OR EVEN A MIDFIELDER WOULD.

Saint who had 10/15 assists in the prem last year??

As for Keane making a lot of assists.......... Keane made 10 assists in the last 3 seasons, just over 3 per season, Rooney made 30 in the last three seasons or 10 per season by comparison.

Rooney did if you read my previous post 10 last season, 11 the year before , and 9 two years ago.

Fabrigas got 17 last season for Arsenal as well mate.

And this proves anything why?
What about the assistee's that assisted the assistors?
Who assisted them?
This is a fuc'king disgrace.
I can understand you are old school and all that..The bottom line is LFC have signed Robbie Keane and stats are a load of balls.They can be taken in any form and self manipulated to suit any posters point....its a good day for LFC and Keane.
You and others choose to dampen it because thats what you do and are a pack of whinging kunts.

If LFC signed KaKa you would be complaining about something else,it may be Rafas sisters effect on the deal or the fact Kaka has never played in England,maybe the fact that Rafas wife knows kaKas ma...but i can be rest assured that he would play well!
On the same token I will put my neck on the line and say that Keane will play well for LFC and will be WELL WORTH THE MONEY we paid for him!

It proves fk all, its MY FKN OPINION which I backed with a few stat. YOU asked the question and I answered you, now just cos you don't like the fkn answer you start having a go!

As I said he's not my first choice, maybe cos he's fkn Irish that means you think the sun shines out of his ar$e, I don't.

I think he his a good prem player, nothing more nothing less, who will hopefully help us make a challenge for the league.

If you want to make him into some sort of a irish god, wait till he's played a few games for us first.

Keane being Irish has as much to do with my opinions as the Pope has to do with the Red Light District...understand??

The thing I have a problem with is your sheer unbridled negativity towards anything LFC choose to do.
We have been crying out for a proven EPL striker/second striker for ages.Now we sign one and you and Owzat disect the whole fu,cking ar,se out of it and make it look like we have been done or ripped off!Tell me a p;roven EPL player that would be better value?

Well im sorry Saint but i wont stand by and let that happen..not tonight,not any night...I just cant and wont!
Its a great signing for us.Regardless of any stat you choose to read Robbie Keane is an excellent player and will be great for LFC!

I dont care if he had 1 assist or 21 assists last year...he was involved in nearly every goal Spurs scored when he was on the park...I just wish people could look deeper than what is recorded on paper at times!

by **Scottbot** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:31 pm

Effes wrote:Im wondering what will be Rafa's preferred formation now that we've got Keane.

I think the 4-2-3-1 worked really well last year, so not sure I want us to go 4-4-2.

Where does anyone reckon he is best deployed in the 4-2-3-1?

He could certainly do a job in Gerrard's role behind Torres, I'd prefer him there than
in Kuyt's position. But he wouldn't be as effective as Gerrard I don't think.

Assuming we still play a fair bit of 4-2-3-1 next season (and i hope we do) I'd imagine his best position will be behind Torres with Stevie taking Kuyt's slot on the right (my preference) or dropping back into mid-field at the expense of Xabi or Mash. It also wouldn't surprise me to see him play as the lone front-man in the same system should (perish the thought) Torres get injured or rested/rotated. Of course he doesn't bring the same skill-set as Torres but he has the mobility, touch and game intelligence to play the role if needed.

I think he'll be an excellent foil for Torres, he's a classic partnership player for my mind, very clever and adaptable. Torres is an absolute monster for opposing defences to mark, he pulls players all over the show but our problem has been (Gerrard aside) there is no-one to take advantage of the soft spots created by our number 9. Hopefully Keane can be that player.

And again on the price, no-one should be surprised about the money the club has had to pay. Transfers DON'T happen unless both parties are HAPPY. Spurs weren't happy about selling the player so in order for the deal to happen they had to be happy about the fee. They never would have sold him for 12-15 million fee most of us felt was more realistic. The same applies to the Barry situation. I like both players but I liked them both 12 months ago. I guess my only criticism of Rafa in this is that we probably could have bought BOTH of them for £20 million last summer if he had spotted their ability prior to them having their best ever seasons.

by **Effes** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:31 pm

s@int wrote:It proves nothing mate, just backs my opinion that Keane is not as much a creative second striker as people seem to think, and is more a frontline striker that runs from deep like Bellamy.

That doesn't mean he can't play that role ........ just that he hasn't done regularly at Spurs or Leeds. At Coventry he did but he was very young then.

As a creative second striker you should be looking at 10/15 goals a season and around 10/15 assists, obviously more or less depending on ability etc etc. Which is where my won't score 20 league goals comes from, whether he can up his assists towards the 10/15 mark is the big question........ if Rafa even plays him in that role of course.

Play him as a frontline striker with Torres and he may get 20 goals but in all likelyhood only his usual 3 or 4 assists, which would obviously have a detrimental effect on Torres and the number of goals he would score.

As far as actual assists goes ..... no doubt he had a hand in quite a few more (as all players do) but as a front player, obviously he is more likely to make the final pass, touch or flick on than say a CB OR EVEN A MIDFIELDER WOULD.

So S@int,

Where would you play Keane in a 4-2-3-1?

Also, would it be worth going 4-4-2 to make him and the team more effective?

by **Effes** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:35 pm

Scottbot wrote:
Effes wrote:Im wondering what will be Rafa's preferred formation now that we've got Keane.

I think the 4-2-3-1 worked really well last year, so not sure I want us to go 4-4-2.

Where does anyone reckon he is best deployed in the 4-2-3-1?

He could certainly do a job in Gerrard's role behind Torres, I'd prefer him there than
in Kuyt's position. But he wouldn't be as effective as Gerrard I don't think.

Assuming we still play a fair bit of 4-2-3-1 next season (and i hope we do) I'd imagine his best position will be behind Torres with Stevie taking Kuyt's slot on the right (my preference) or dropping back into mid-field at the expense of Xabi or Mash. It also wouldn't surprise me to see him play as the lone front-man in the same system should (perish the thought) Torres get injured or rested/rotated. Of course he doesn't bring the same skill-set as Torres but he has the mobility, touch and game intelligence to play the role if needed.

I think he'll be an excellent foil for Torres, he's a classic partnership player for my mind, very clever and adaptable. Torres is an absolute monster for opposing defences to mark, he pulls players all over the show but our problem has been (Gerrard aside) there is no-one to take advantage of the soft spots created by our number 9. Hopefully Keane can be that player.

Scott, I tend to agree.

Keane behind Torres and Gerrard in Kuyt's position could be a tremendous combination.
Would Gerrard be happy playing that role? Hard to say. But, it IS the position (more or less) that Ronaldo plays
so it could be sold to him on that basis.

by **Number 9** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:42 pm

neil wrote:
s@int wrote:As for Keane making a lot of assists.......... Keane made 10 assists in the last 3 seasons, just over 3 per season, Rooney made 30 in the last three seasons or 10 per season by comparison.

how many goals do you think he played a part in? certainly not 3 a season, assists must mean 'last pass to scorer' something cut and dry whereas we all know that most goals involve 3 or 4 guys splitting a defence, how many of these was he involved in? I'll wager more than 3 a season.

exactly what i am trying to say!!
Some people only understand what they click on and bring from other websites though!
What exactly is an assist?
Seemingly a player needs to put a ball onto anothers head or foot in one motion..only then he can claim a part in a goal and claim an assist technically.
So say for example Keane gets the ball at the halfway line..runs beats a few players and pulls the team up the park by the scruff.Gets a free kick..plays it into babel who heads the ball onto Torres who scores...Babel gets the assist but Keane made the goal..does anyone understand??

Cant believe I agreed with a neil post!

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:54 pm

Number 9 wrote:
s@int wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
s@int wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
s@int wrote:It proves nothing mate, just backs my opinion that Keane is not as much a creative second striker as people seem to think, and is more a frontline striker that runs from deep like Bellamy.

That doesn't mean he can't play that role ........ just that he hasn't done regularly at Spurs or Leeds. At Coventry he did but he was very young then.

As a creative second striker you should be looking at 10/15 goals a season and around 10/15 assists, obviously more or less depending on ability etc etc. Which is where my won't score 20 league goals comes from, whether he can up his assists towards the 10/15 mark is the big question........ if Rafa even plays him in that role of course.

Play him as a frontline striker with Torres and he may get 20 goals but in all likelyhood only his usual 3 or 4 assists, which would obviously have a detrimental effect on Torres and the number of goals he would score.

As far as actual assists goes ..... no doubt he had a hand in quite a few more (as all players do) but as a front player, obviously he is more likely to make the final pass, touch or flick on than say a CB OR EVEN A MIDFIELDER WOULD.

Saint who had 10/15 assists in the prem last year??

As for Keane making a lot of assists.......... Keane made 10 assists in the last 3 seasons, just over 3 per season, Rooney made 30 in the last three seasons or 10 per season by comparison.

Rooney did if you read my previous post 10 last season, 11 the year before , and 9 two years ago.

Fabrigas got 17 last season for Arsenal as well mate.

And this proves anything why?
What about the assistee's that assisted the assistors?
Who assisted them?
This is a fuc'king disgrace.
I can understand you are old school and all that..The bottom line is LFC have signed Robbie Keane and stats are a load of balls.They can be taken in any form and self manipulated to suit any posters point....its a good day for LFC and Keane.
You and others choose to dampen it because thats what you do and are a pack of whinging kunts.

If LFC signed KaKa you would be complaining about something else,it may be Rafas sisters effect on the deal or the fact Kaka has never played in England,maybe the fact that Rafas wife knows kaKas ma...but i can be rest assured that he would play well!
On the same token I will put my neck on the line and say that Keane will play well for LFC and will be WELL WORTH THE MONEY we paid for him!

It proves fk all, its MY FKN OPINION which I backed with a few stat. YOU asked the question and I answered you, now just cos you don't like the fkn answer you start having a go!

As I said he's not my first choice, maybe cos he's fkn Irish that means you think the sun shines out of his ar$e, I don't.

I think he his a good prem player, nothing more nothing less, who will hopefully help us make a challenge for the league.

If you want to make him into some sort of a irish god, wait till he's played a few games for us first.

Keane being Irish has as much to do with my opinions as the Pope has to do with the Red Light District...understand??

The thing I have a problem with is your sheer unbridled negativity towards anything LFC choose to do.
We have been crying out for a proven EPL striker/second striker for ages.Now we sign one and you and Owzat disect the whole fu,cking ar,se out of it and make it look like we have been done or ripped off!Tell me a p;roven EPL player that would be better value?

Well im sorry Saint but i wont stand by and let that happen..not tonight,not any night...I just cant and wont!
Its a great signing for us.Regardless of any stat you choose to read Robbie Keane is an excellent player and will be great for LFC!

I dont care if he had 1 assist or 21 assists last year...he was involved in nearly every goal Spurs scored when he was on the park...I just wish people could look deeper than what is recorded on paper at times!

My unbridled negativity ? :laugh:

I said he was a good prem player and will be a success what more do you fkn want?

So we are not allowed to give our opinions and discuss players anymore? If you don't like my opinion don't read it, its as simple as that. Its only my opinion not fkn Rafa's.

I apologised to you for my Irish joke, there is no way I am going to apologise for my opinion.

As for the rest of your post......

like it or lump it, I am not going to change my opinion just because you don't happen to like it.

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